Two Stepping.....the down and dirty of it

Big Dog

Member
Alright fellas,

Let's get down to the nitty-gritty on the two step process. I've got myself some accounts and I have been washing them for some time. I think it's time to start getting faster at this process and I would like to seriousily look at two stepping. I know the general process but need some finer details.

Basically if I understand it right (in general terms) you spray on some acid, then spray on some alkaline, then rinse. Now I know that I have way over-simpliflied it so let's get techinical.

Here's the questions......

1) Should I spray on the acid using a flo-jet? Will just flexible chem line and a bug-spray type wand work ok? Cold Water? Or should I down stream it? And at what ratio should it be applied to the trucks? Do I apply bottom to top? How much should I plan to use on a tractor with sleeper and 53' box? Is this step pretty-much just soaking the truck down?

2) Now am I wrong or is pretty-much all truck washing soap alkaline? Or do I need a specific Two-Step Soap? Do I apply it bottom to top also? I assume that it is ok to upstream this step? Again How much can I expect to use and at what ratio should it be applied? Is this the "washing" step? Hot water in this step?

3) The rinsing step.....pretty simple, just spray water on truck to rinse off everything else. Or is it really that simple? Cold or hot water?

I am building a new rig in a 14' box van and almost have it finished and I want to make it as practical and efficient as possible and these questions will help that also. So far I have roughed in the plumbing but can easily change it depending on the answers here. I have digital camera but have no idea how to post pictures but I will if needed.

I have four 15 gal chem tanks running upstream using 1/4" line and 1/4 turn valve on each with 1 master valve to shut it all off. I have 1 spare 15 gal tank that I was planning to use with the flo-jet for the acid prewash. I have not mounted or plumbed that yet. I am carrying 150 gal water and have that plumbed as the water source with a float valve to keep the tank full. I have not fired up anything yet so I may end up re-plumbing the whole thing if it does not draw water. The machine is about 12-16" above the water level of the tank.

Please feel free to comment on either equipment and/or process.
As always, I value everyones opinions and comments. I could not have made it this far without your help...
 
Two Stepping

Hiya Big Dog

When I first started in this business I used the 2 step process. The distributor I bought my first machine from said that was the way you washed trucks (and he also sold soap LOL). When I finally figured out that you could one step that's what I did, and worked for many years with one step soaps. I recently went back to a 2 step process and here's how I do it:

Hydraflouric Acid is now illegal in my state so I use Hydrachloric and mix it exactly the same way as I do the alkaline. I mix 4 to 1, and my machine runs at 5 gallons a minute, 2000 to 3000 psi (cold water), and I inject the soap at 20 oz's per minute (I'll let you figure out the ratios). If I lived in a colder climate I'd probably mix 3 to 1 and inject it at 22 to 25 oz's per minute.

Apply (bottom to top) starting with the acid and just before I reach the end I switch to alkaline and apply it back to where I started. Rinse pretty much speaks for itself, and I have a vacume switch on my machine that allows me to control 2 soaps and rinse from the gun.

One strong warning: DO NOT LET ACID DRY ON THE WINDSHIELD (especially on hot days). It can etch and fog a window if left on to dry. I've only had to replace one windshield for a company, but last summer I had a hole in my acid tank and it leaked out overnight and when I got in my truck the next morning to go to work I couldn't see out the window. That windshield was toast!!

I do still have to do some brushing, but not nearly as much as before and for me the key to the whole thing is using a fully charged 50,000 grain water softener. Everything works better with soft water. I've never used hot water so can't answer your question about it.

I'm not a chemist but I know that acid and alkaline are on opposite ends of the PH scale and when they meet on a surface they neutralize each other and clean at the same time. That's probably over simplified but is the way it was explained to me.

Hope this helps you.
 
hey big dog

Bigboy is the guy you need to talk too.
this is one way for you to do it.
#1 depends on what you are washing polished alum.,
stainless,unpolished alum,painted metal,ect..
use HF on paint and alum. thats OK to turn white
use PH on polished[can use this on everything and its safer but not as powerfull] All acids are dangerous but HR is the nastiest yes it can kill you] if you use HF get a glass polishing kit in case you do leave it on the windshield to long.[20 sec. the most]
use a duel lance and downstream[low pressure] your acids then hot high pressure soap[upstream] There are alk. soaps and caustic soaps. If your caustic soap is high it will turn the alum brown[burns it]
as far as that 150 gal tank your not going to get meny trucks washed with that little tank.
When you plub your chem tanks do so, so that you can draw from more then 1 at a time. Mix your chems strong and adj with the ball valves. Some crack open the acid with the soap and just use that way and rinse.
so thats 1 tank for caustic soap 1 tank for alk. soap 1 tank for HF 1 tank for PH 1 tank for degreaser plumb your shr-flo so it can draw from any tank including fresh water in case your machine brakes down while in the middle of a truck wash with acid on it.[learned that from BIGBOY] Or you run out of fuel.
everthing hot water except the rinse[add wax to your rinse another tank]
with a box truck you are going to have to do some fancy plumbing to get all the valves together where you dont have to go inside every time, plus switch from cold to heat.
Put a ball valve from your tank to your wash unit that way you can cut down the water supply a little and make it draw from your chem tank when you need it real strong.
This is my dream set-up right now i do all this with 5 gal buckets and injectors but soon ill have the $ to set this up. You need a 500 gal tank but thats 3800lbs when full
 
Thanks for the replies.

I really feel pretty good about this project but need a little pat-on-the-back to go for it.

Right now everything I am washing is painted including wheels and tanks.

I think I will be ok with the water as I have a water supply everywhere I wash and if not I have two 350 gal tanks on a really good trailer with brakes to take along.

I had originally planned to plumb all five chem tanks into the upstream but I just had not hooked up the last one yet pending what info I got. I also left a hook-up for the flo-jet like you were talking about but again was waiting to finish. However I did not plumb a way to downstream anything so I will have to make some modifications for that.

I also did not think about the wax for the rinse but I do have a 6th tank I can add so no big deal there.

I did think about the valves and so on and have them located at the rear of the truck so you can reach through the door to operate. I hope to later cut out some panels in the side of the body so that all controls for all liquids and a seperate one for the electrical and generator are right a finger tips. I also hope to do some remote contral later. Thats a lil' fancy for me now but I'll get it later.

Thanks again.


Hey BIGBOY...........HEEEEELLLLLLLPPPPPP.
 
All around here they upstream their acids and soaps (cat pumps only for this).

I downstream all my acids and upstream all soaps but can apply either with a flo-jet,I hardly ever apply acid with the flo-jet but do at times,its to hard on it if useing HF acid.I do at times prespray soaps with the flo-jet it depends on what kind of cleaning mood I'm in,if real dirty sometimes I'll prespray them with soap before I apply the acid then after appling acid I upsteam them with hot soap.When acid meets soap or soap meets acid it causes a explosion between the two.

"Squirt" or Ron P did a good job on explaining...hey Ron how'd you get the nickname squirt.....some around here call me highpockets,ha.

I have never burned a windsheild,this is how I keep from it when useing HF acid (PH acid doesn't burn the windsheild),my flo-jet is on a hosereel,I prespray a alk.soap for bugs before I start to wash,front of truck,back of mirrors,stacks,scoop and windsheild,anywhere they are bugs,it speeds up your washing b/c the bugs come off fairly easy plus if any acid splashes on the windsheild the soap will help protect it.I do not apply HF acid to the top of the truck b/c it'll run down on the windsheild and no amount of soap will keep it from burning it.I think downstreaming acid (HF) is the safest way to go plus you have more control over it b/c its not applied under high psi.

I'm not as lucky as you with everything painted which would be a blessing,I love washing your type trucks,everything painted....soap tank,acid tank and wax tank is all that is needed for those,if it was me I'd mix alk'line and caustic soap in the soap tank,more alk. then caustic...say with your size chem.line and 25gal.tank add or start with 1 1/2 gal of caustic,it'll depend on the type caustic some are stronger than others.Caustic is a good cleaner but also it will streak if to strong or as Squrit said burn alumu. if to strong,never use caustic on polished,will you can but be every every careful how you do so.
Wax is one of the most under looked chemical and one of the cheapest you can apply for what it does,I stay away from bead waxes or they just bead alittle,Delco makes a good wax it'll bead some but also sheats the water off if you do not mix it to strong,think I'm mixing 4 to 6 oz to 5 gal. metered with a ball valve or wide open at times...........Go for it,its just like anything else you clean,after you learn a few trick its farly easy,if I didn't answer what your asking hallower.
 
bigboy

#1 i allways give you credit where credit is due.
#2 the Squirt thing is funny because i squirt water but im 6 ft 2 kind of like calling my ''tiny'' ive got to make a call and try cooking up some trucks. Lost my last newspaper. Hope they send me a new one soon. You been puttin in peas,carrots, and meat in that stew or leaving out the carrots and making it just 2 part stew?
 
Hey guys,

Just thought I would update on my rig. I took it out today and washed 17 garbage trucks. I have not got all my chems yet but I did upstream my soaps and my plumbing seems to be ok.

I will try to get the flo-jet and downstream injector fixed this week and order some acid for the two-step. I also am going to change all my main water line to 2" line. It drew water fine but was a little slow to pick it up to the pump for my taste.

I still like a lot of nit-picky stuff on the truck like lighting inside the back and a few other little things.

Anyway just wanted to say thanks to all who replied.
 
when you say it drew alittle slow,did it have air in it......

if so,plumb a Y in your supply line to pump,add a on and off valve,after you fill your supply tank turn the valve on to let the air out of the supply line.

You can add a line to the on and off valve to use in filling buckets or washing your face.

If this is the case your 2 in. line want help,it'll still get air if you run your supply tank down below the pump and go get more water.

I have 3/4 in. supply line and it draws great,that is after I let the air out of the line after refilling the supply tank.
 
It could have had air in the line. Thats a possiblity. The problem is that my tank sits below the pw. The water line is about 12-18 inches below the pw.

My supply tank is actually three 55 gal plastic barrels. They have a 2" pipe thread bung that I reduced down to 3/4" and then I just laid them on there sides and built a rack to hold them. I could raise the rack up but thats quite a bit of weight and I prefer to keep it on the floor of the truck.

I fixed a little 3-way splitter to fill the tanks at the same time. And (unfurtunatly) when it gets full it just spill out on the ground. I had a float valve rigged up but it did not work at all so I removed it.

With the way my chem tanks are plumbed I could actually fill one of them with water and use it to "prime" the water line. I may try that to see what happens. Also I could plumb the fill lines for the tanks so that they use the "hose" pressure would force water into the pw but I am afraid if I do that it will force water into the chem lines. Of course I could put a check valve on the main chem line but I was trying to keep it simple.

Anyway thanks for the help and let me know what you think.
 
Run your 2 in. line all the way to the pump before you reduce down,you'll have more weight in the water pushing down as in gravity.The closer you can set your drums to the pump more the better.

They make a float for cattle tanks which should work,it needs to be plumbed in the tank your filling not one of the others.

I have a 550 tank and can suck it dry,it sets on the floor of the trailer below the pump,hmmmm 5 foot from.
 
How s Chuck Scott?
Hiya Big Dog

When I first started in this business I used the 2 step process. The distributor I bought my first machine from said that was the way you washed trucks (and he also sold soap LOL). When I finally figured out that you could one step that's what I did, and worked for many years with one step soaps. I recently went back to a 2 step process and here's how I do it:

Hydraflouric Acid is now illegal in my state so I use Hydrachloric and mix it exactly the same way as I do the alkaline. I mix 4 to 1, and my machine runs at 5 gallons a minute, 2000 to 3000 psi (cold water), and I inject the soap at 20 oz's per minute (I'll let you figure out the ratios). If I lived in a colder climate I'd probably mix 3 to 1 and inject it at 22 to 25 oz's per minute.

Apply (bottom to top) starting with the acid and just before I reach the end I switch to alkaline and apply it back to where I started. Rinse pretty much speaks for itself, and I have a vacume switch on my machine that allows me to control 2 soaps and rinse from the gun.

One strong warning: DO NOT LET ACID DRY ON THE WINDSHIELD (especially on hot days). It can etch and fog a window if left on to dry. I've only had to replace one windshield for a company, but last summer I had a hole in my acid tank and it leaked out overnight and when I got in my truck the next morning to go to work I couldn't see out the window. That windshield was toast!!

I do still have to do some brushing, but not nearly as much as before and for me the key to the whole thing is using a fully charged 50,000 grain water softener. Everything works better with soft water. I've never used hot water so can't answer your question about it.

I'm not a chemist but I know that acid and alkaline are on opposite ends of the PH scale and when they meet on a surface they neutralize each other and clean at the same time. That's probably over simplified but is the way it was explained to me.

Hope this helps you.
 
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