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  1. #1
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Teachers with Guns!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15142930/

    Have we gone nuts, what teacher will be first to shoot a student?

    Have they heard of posting a police officer at the School to protect the children.

    I'm considering a move?

    I love this country, we have to do something.
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  • #2
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    I think it is unconstututional to not let them carry. I can't think of one place I believe you shouldn't be able to carry as long as your trained and licensed. However, there has to be safegaurds in place to ensure the students can not get the weapons. Maybe safes under the desks?
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  • #3
    moderator Professor with Tenure Jonathan Ellis's Avatar
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    Crazy students, crazy teachers. Use to it was getting hit in the head with green beans at lunch time, now you gotta watch out for flying bullets. America is gone mad, and with who is available to vote for in November, we are not getting any better. But then again, the Bible talks about pretty much everyone going mad. It is not looking up anytime soon.
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  • #4
    moderator Professor with Tenure Jonathan Ellis's Avatar
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    Sorry, America has gone mad.
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  • #5
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    Everybody always talks about how "things are getting bad" etc......read a few books in the Old Testament if you want to see what debauchery really is. All things are cyclical----I challenge anyone to stop watching/reading the news and see if the sky is truly falling like most seem to think it is.
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  • #6
    Member Junior Undergraduate Scott Thompson's Avatar
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    Things are a little different in Texas. I don't believe that allowing teachers to carry loaded weapons is a very good idea in the first place. If a group of students really wanted that gun, they could take it away easily enough. And I don't believe that a person determined to go into a school and do harm would be deterred by the fact that some of the teachers may be carrying concealed weapons. Most of the time, they are on a suicide mission anyway so where is the deterent?
    All of the middle and High schools in my town have at least one police officer assigned to the campus. I think that seeing a police cruiser parked in front of the school is more of a deterent to criminals than any teacher who may or may not be armed.
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  • #7
    Member Graduate Student Palmetto Roof's Avatar
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    I think teachers should still be able to beat the snot out of undisiplinded lil kids. teens these days are ignorant, I see them walking down roads and will not get out of traffic, and look at me like they wanna kick my butt cause I have to veer around them.

    I have always said I wish ignorance was painfull!
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  • #8
    Member Freshman Undergraduate dstowell's Avatar
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    God Bless America

    Whether you like the present state of things or not, join me in praying that God blesses us!

    b.t.w. I am a teacher and go back tomorrow (without firearms).

    -Dan
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  • #9
    moderator Professor with Tenure Jonathan Ellis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmetto Roof View Post
    I think teachers should still be able to beat the snot out of undisiplinded lil kids. teens these days are ignorant, I see them walking down roads and will not get out of traffic, and look at me like they wanna kick my butt cause I have to veer around them.

    I have always said I wish ignorance was painfull!
    You apparently do not have kids of your own. I agree that children need to be punished, but that gives NO ONE the right to touch my child. If I ever picked one of my children up from school and a teacher, or principal or someone punished my child I would be whipping some ass. It is a parents responsibility to teach children the correct ways. What I deem acceptable you may not, what you deem acceptable, I may not.

    I could only begin to see a teacher having a bad day and little Johnny bad a$$ pesters her and the teacher pops a cap in little Johnny.

    Dont misunderstand me, most kids need to have some manners and respect beat into them, but not at school, that begins at home.
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  • #10
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    Its not who we vote for that is going to change things. It has to start with the parents. The parents to give a crap, so the kids turn into bastards.

    Scott, the idea isnt to deter them, it is so that if someone does come in guns-a-blazin there are firearm trained teachers able to take them out and make their suicide wish come true sooner. 1 Police officer on a school campus will do nothing if he is on the other side of the campus. If there are 30 teachers, and 10 have guns, chances are at least a couple are closer to the action than 1 fat campus cop.

    I do not think they should be able to carry it in their belts. They should be in a safe under the desk, or somewhere close to the teacher, and only brought out during an emergency or to take it home after hours.

    The risk you take is that there are irrisponsible teachers who would leave the weapon unsecured.
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  • #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ellis View Post
    You apparently do not have kids of your own. I agree that children need to be punished, but that gives NO ONE the right to touch my child. If I ever picked one of my children up from school and a teacher, or principal or someone punished my child I would be whipping some ass. It is a parents responsibility to teach children the correct ways. What I deem acceptable you may not, what you deem acceptable, I may not.

    I could only begin to see a teacher having a bad day and little Johnny bad a$$ pesters her and the teacher pops a cap in little Johnny.

    Dont misunderstand me, most kids need to have some manners and respect beat into them, but not at school, that begins at home.
    I agree. However, the teachers are with the students 8+ hours per day. I do think that there should be corporal punishment, but only with the parents consent and only with methods approved by the parents. Kids are such bastards now, and teachers cant even call them out for giving a wrong answer without being afraid of being sued for humiliating the kids.

    I say we bring back dunce caps too.
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  • #12
    Member Graduate Student Palmetto Roof's Avatar
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    I do have 2 kids.... but you said it, "It is a parents responsibility to teach children the correct ways" and most parents don't teach there kids much. it seems to be ok to let your kids run around at 1 am and be a pain in the butt. The kids who have parents who teach them better and show there kids how to be a decent human being will not have to worry about the teaches whipping there azz. It was like that back in day, my fathers generation did not have to worry about Columbine attacks. Just my opinion.....
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  • #13
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    I just think that we have better methods.

    I not for gun control but this is one step closer when the teacher gets fired and then we have a teacher that kills the staff or even the student that may have made the false accusation that got them fired.

    Guns dont belong in Schools, I actually remember the police officers not carrying fire arms at my school in Chicago. They left them in the car and carried a club. They called it something else, anyway i wouldnt recommend that in todays times.

    Teachers admins students, no place for weapons. (sorry)

    You guys can debate all you want and my mind has been changed in the past. This one has no chance with me.
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  • #14
    moderator Professor with Tenure Jonathan Ellis's Avatar
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    I agree that most kids need to be taken out back and sprayed down at full pressure with hot water and muratic acid. If parents give thier concent to have their kids physically diciplined by someone else, fine. I wouldn't. My kids are great kids, yes, the do sometimes get out of hand (my sons 4th birthday is tomorrow ) We have very few complaints out of either child, but no one, even in my family has the right to PHYSICALLY dicipline my children other than my wife and myself.

    For the parents that would allow the school system to do it, that is their choice.

    As far as the teachers with guns, in my opnion, it is stupid. The 5'4'' 50 year old 105 pound teacher against a 6' 200 pound guy that just broke up with "the love of the year" I mean "love of their life" pissed off now has a gun from the sweet little ole teacher.
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  • #15
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    Its true that deterrents in punishment don't work, like instituting capitol punishment will prevent capitol crimes. However, that's due to the fact that people believe 1) They won't get caught, 2) So many loopholes if they do, 3) Plea Bargaining. However, immediate deterrents, such as "I have a gun" do work and prevent next stage crime. Teachers with guns on the surface is pretty absurd concept, although so is random killing of unarmed students. If teachers are to have guns, then I think they should be secured on their person and visible at all times, just like a cop.

    As far as corporal punishment, I agree with Jonathan that if I came to school and some teacher whipped my kids butt, there would be some hell to pay. However, kids do not get enough discipline today at home, parents are afraid of child services to smack their kids butts. I'd like to see some calculated and measured advancement in physical discipline of children, whether done by the schools or at home.
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  • #16
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    I think they should be secured on their person and visible at all times, just like a cop.
    Thats not how they are doing it. All hidden and even not on there person. i see problems and I see your point. Its like me seeing that patrol car everyday. i slow down, if it wasnt parked in front i wouldnt see it.
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  • #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerwashstencils View Post
    Its true that deterrents in punishment don't work, like instituting capitol punishment will prevent capitol crimes. However, that's due to the fact that people believe 1) They won't get caught, 2) So many loopholes if they do, 3) Plea Bargaining. However, immediate deterrents, such as "I have a gun" do work and prevent next stage crime. Teachers with guns on the surface is pretty absurd concept, although so is random killing of unarmed students. If teachers are to have guns, then I think they should be secured on their person and visible at all times, just like a cop.

    As far as corporal punishment, I agree with Jonathan that if I came to school and some teacher whipped my kids butt, there would be some hell to pay. However, kids do not get enough discipline today at home, parents are afraid of child services to smack their kids butts. I'd like to see some calculated and measured advancement in physical discipline of children, whether done by the schools or at home.
    I believe that they are doing it almost right. They are able to carry them, but they have to be out of sight, and only the school admins. are allowed to know who carrys and who doesnt. It would be like students guessing which teacher had a $1k cash in their pockets. Nobody would know and you wouldnt be able to find out. I dissagree wuth keeping them on their person. I think in a safe under the desk. I also think that the guns must be required to not have a clip in them, but in the the safe. That way if some kid does happen to get at the weapon, hopefully they wont grab the clip.

    The thing is, is that alot of teachers carry already in school, they just dont talk about it. And when a few have had to use them, they were fired and had criminal charges brought against them. They saved 30 kids, but broke the rules by excersising their right to bear arms.

    Bottom line, the government, or school system, has no right telling you where you can or can not carry a concealed handgun, as long as you're licensed.
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  • #18
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Bottom line, the government, or school system, has no right telling you where you can or can not carry a concealed handgun, as long as you're licensed.
    Do you feel you can have a company policy that tell you employees they cannot carry? Just curious, dont take this wrong. Its your choice and i wouldnt care if one of your guys came to my home packing. But i would imagine a women home alone might be affraid.
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  • #19
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    I know the laws vary from state to state, but here in Georgia, you have to have a permit to carry your firearm. Concealed or Open Carry is your choice, but those members have to pass a background check by the GBI and FBI. I would say that most people that have a clean background, aren't likely to be your average criminals. Now, that doesn't mean they know how to handle a firearm, but most people that are going to go thru the effort of getting a permit are also going to be the same ones that make an effort to get trained on the firearm that they carry.
    To answer your original question about teachers and firearms, I'm going to side with Scott here, 100%. I think if the firearm is secured in a safe, and the teachers have had at least a basic firearms course, such as those offered by the NRA or some other recognizable training facility, that they should be allowed in a school. A gun free zone isn't a crime free zone. Criminals don't care about gun free zones, it only hurts the law abiding citizens. When it comes down to when seconds count, the police could be minutes away. These aren't the schools our parents grew up in, times have changed and unfortunately for the worse.
    Here's a good example of what I'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR9RN_iSKtg . Start watching at 2:01 to see what I mean. Criminals don't obey laws , what makes you think calling it a 'gun free zone' will make a difference? Then again at 2:45, what do criminals fear most? Not the police, another armed American. Gun control doesn't work, it only gives the criminal the advantage.
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  • #20
    Member 7000 PLUS POSTER Scott Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Ellis View Post
    You apparently do not have kids of your own. I agree that children need to be punished, but that gives NO ONE the right to touch my child. If I ever picked one of my children up from school and a teacher, or principal or someone punished my child I would be whipping some ass. It is a parents responsibility to teach children the correct ways. What I deem acceptable you may not, what you deem acceptable, I may not.

    I could only begin to see a teacher having a bad day and little Johnny bad a$$ pesters her and the teacher pops a cap in little Johnny.

    Dont misunderstand me, most kids need to have some manners and respect beat into them, but not at school, that begins at home.
    I don't agree with teachers carrying guns, but, I also think that they should be able to discipline them, when needed. If little Johnny has not learned to respect a teacher, or another adult by the time he is in school, it is too late.

    BTW, I have four kids, and they are and were all honors students.

    If you remember, when we were growing up, or at least when I was growing up, if a teacher called and said you had been misbehaving in class, there would be hell to pay at home. Now, parents want to sue the teachers for picking on little Johnny unfairly.

    Interesting story, and actually pertains somewhat to this. A few years ago I was teaching a class in church. A couple of the kids were always misbehaving and very disrespectful. I spent most of the class time trying to keep them shut up and sat down. One day after their sunday school class, I had told one of the precious little gems that he needed to go sit with his Dad, I got cornered in the hall by both of the fathers. I was literally accused of beating on the kids in class, and using corporal punishment in the sunday school class. I was told that I knew nothing about children and that I surely must hate their children and that they were perfectly well behaved, and it was all my fault.

    Now, 7 years later, one of them is in jail for drug dealing and usage, and the other is a high school drop out and the only reason he is out of jail is because his daddy is an attorney that is well acquainted with the judges.

    What it boils down to is the parents are too willing to believe what precious is saying, and not willing to accept that someone might see a different side of them, that could be potentially damaging.
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