Pwna $250.00 Or $100.00

PWNA $250.00 OR $100.00?

  • 1. would you stay a member if after Two Years the fee was reduced to $100.00?

    Votes: 26 57.8%
  • It would make no difference if the fee were reduced after two years.

    Votes: 19 42.2%

  • Total voters
    45

Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member
PWNA $250.00 OR $100.00



Simple Question


You can answer even if you where not and old or are current member.

1. would you stay a member if after Two Years the fee was reduced to $100.00

2. It would make no difference if the fee were reduced after two years.
 
If the fee was smaller for us "small" guys and a discount added to PWNA convention registration, it would be well worth considering.

Reed
 
Ron,

The better way is to just reduce it to $100 period.

If they said all members, new, current and past the cost is as above then bring it back up and talk about it.

I would give serious thought to rejoining for $100.

This has been asked in a few post lately and IF they ever considered it I would be shocked.

Enough already.
 
Please expand on that Ron, if they are considering it is it after 2 years or from day one?

Also if it comes to be what about former members, would we have to pay $250 all over or be allowed to pay the lower fee to rejoin?
 
Jon sometimes you make my poor little head spin. lmaoooooo

I do like you though :)
 
Long but worth reading, really and it is not a bashing.

Why thank you Chuck, when we meet you will know I am nuts!!


Ok now in all seriousness whomever on the PWNA board came up with this idea of lowering the dues is a genius, really and I hope it goes though.

Now this is an open message to all PWNA board members.

Please listen and think out what I say here, what is the number one reason the PWNA looses membership? TURNOVER, lack of retention, why because of a few reasons as follows.

1: High cost of membership.

2: New members join, they learn, they go to a convention and see and learn more then after two or three years they quit.

Why do they quite you ask, one reason is the $250 a year dues, they ask what did I really I get for that money? (Please lets not get into a it is not what you get for it but what you put into it thing, I am not bashing but truly wish to offer ways to see it grow and become what it can be and should be, an organization for pressure washers).

3: They expect much more then is offered so again they leave.

I personally think if the dues started at $100 you would see an increase in membership and a retention of current members.

Please keep in mind that I feel the dues should be higher for suppliers, manufacturers and others but not the guys and gals out there doing the work.

You would also find that some former members would rejoin but if you say you must be a member for TWO YEARS first you will not regain those former members, myself included.

I would send a check in tomorrow if you said all former members the cost is only cost $100 to join or rejoin and that is a promise.

I know sometimes the wheel grinds slowly, sometimes a wrench is thrown in and it grinds to a halt and the only way to get that wheel turning again is to remove that wrench, who on this new board is going to be brave enough to bend down and remove that wrench so the PWNA can forge ahead in new directions?

Expand into the future, work on the things you know members join for, listen to them, do surverys and leave plenty of room for written suggestions and then pay attention to them, discuss them, don't just trash can them.

Another thing you have heard before is expanding West, opening a district office to cover the Western USA, contact each and ever y cities business license department and get a list of all pressure washers, steam cleaners, water blasters etc. then contact them about joining. Many do not even know about these BBS's and that is a shame, sure some do and are not interested and those will never change.

Another old talked to death thing is East Coast conventions, yes I know most members are there so most conventions are too, I am fully aware of the cost facture and lost of income doing the shows out this way, would not more members bring more to the shows and increase revenue thus lowering cost to run the shows?

I know I can be a pain in the butt at times but anyone that cares to truly know me will see there is a whole different side to me, not the hyper blunt person most see but a serious businessman and one who does think things out and can see clearly.

Hard for most to believe that but it is true. Call me or Email me if you want asking serious questions and you will get serious answers. This is an open invite to all not just PWNA board members.

Once again I hope the genius who came up with the idea of lower dues steps forward so all can see who it is and we can then back you on this great idea.

Jon
 
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Once again, a lot of talk about nothing! Cheapo, Jon...either you get a benefit out of PWNA or you don't. What is this, "gee, I would join for $100 but not for $250!" That is crap! You get $100 worth out of it, but not $250? You crack me up! If you think the orgnaization is of value to the industry, then join, if not, don't and shut up and keep your penny pinching opinions to yourself! I, for one, see no personal value in it for myself or the industry, and have done quite well without it. I would not join if it were free.
 
Well said Zippo,

Only problem is most of us don't really give a damn about you.

Penny pinching, you perhaps but I am from a cut above, join me someday and see for yourself.

For your information I was a member and I have been to their shows. How does that get you Zippo? Next time do your homework before you open your mouth.

We all await your next beautiful post about me.

You made a remark that I always saying bad things about others, have you taken the time to read all your post? you post only negative things about me and no one else.

Be a real man and come out of the closet, state your true name, city/state and other information about you.

If your not able to do that do us all a favor and stay on your board.
 
Zippo, we chose, as did Jon I'm sure, to invest our $250 per year in an organization that gives us more value. It has nothing to do with being cheap, but was a well thought out business decision.

Jon, you're right. (except you shouldn'ta let Zippo bait you like that)

We joined PWNA for two years and as much as I believe in the need for a professional power washer's organization, it doesn't offer enough value for us to stay at $250 per year dues.

In my opinion, the real value of belonging to PWNA, as you mentioned, Jon, is in attending the conferences, learning and sharing with other members. Unfortunately, through PWNA that costs far more than $250 a year dues. Conference registration is about $300, travel and hotel - $500-$750, then another $200-$300 each for the certification programs if you decide to go those routes. And, if you want to bring your spouse or another employee--well, a small power washing company like ours just can't afford that. Lucky for us, because of bulletin boards like this, and Cleaner Times and Blastmaster magazines, the same stuff is available at a far less expensive cost.

What you do get from PWNA for just the $250 dues is NOT worth $250. They've offered me no benefits that I can actually use. I mean, how many power washers routinely use overnight mail? And I never got a referral from them. Honestly, as I've mentioned to PWNA leadership, if we could only get someone to answer the phones, return messages and quit putting out that expensive glossy full color literature when something far less expensive would do just fine, I'd be much more enthusiastic about the organization.

Regarding the $100--yes, I'd rejoin for $100 because, well, it's only $100. I would like to support a national power washer's organization if I can justify the return on my investment. A smaller investment would be much easier to justify. It's the same theory as reducing taxes to generate more money. We still probably couldn't afford the conventions.
 
Well said Laurie.

Here are a few ways to compare the PWNA.

Local Chamber of Commerce.
BBB.
Lions Club.
Rotary Club.
NRA.
AMA.

My dues to my local Chamber are $100 a year and I have had referrals from them.

There are many more service and business organizations the offer some benefits to its membership. Not belonging to them I am not aware of what their yearly dues are, could be more or less then $250.

I, like the rest of you pick and chose which to join and which to not belong to, it has nothing to do with "cheapness".

If it did then we all would be in the same boat as one person here implies I am, so grab an oar and row brothers and sisters.
 
Ron,

The problem is not $100, $250 or any other number, it's the benefits of being members. There are some trade groups out there that companies don't think twice about spending $1,000 or more a year to join. Why is that? Because the benefits are so numerous that $1,000 is pocket change to what they're getting in return. I bottom line everything in terms of benefits to my income. If I spend $250 on something I better get more than $250 back either in business, cost savings or something. Why is this so hard for these guys at PWNA to understand? If I pay my guys $15 an hour, I better be getting at least $45 to $65 back in return or they aren't going to be with us very long. This isn't rocket science, it's business. When PWNA can show me that I'll get a hard dollar return in benefits from being a member, than I'll be glad to pay whatever they want in membership fees.

They should look at what makes us tick and figure out how to save us money in the areas we need it. Why not decrease the dues for a few years, build up a big number of members and then go to say Envirospec and negotiate discounts on things we already buy from them? Delco's in with PWNA, Hinderlighter helped found it, so why don't they offer discounts on equipment for members? Joe Walters is the largest insurer of power washers in North America and one of the founders of PWNA, so where are the lower cost insurance benefits to members of PWNA? Nada, zilch. These are successful business people I'm talking about, yet they don't seem to think like business people when it comes to PWNA. Doesn't make any sense. It's like they expect us to join simply because they are our supposed trade association and that doesn't cut it with me.

I sure hope having Mike on the board can get some of these guys to wake up and see what they really need to do out here.
 
Lance's post was so on the money for me. Alot of guys out here on the West Coast use the distances we have to travel for most PWNA functions as a reason for not joining but for me that's never been the case. I never joined because I simply wasn't going to get anything out of the money I spend on membership, and that's my one and only reason.

I call Joe Walters every year to see if he can give me a lower rate on Business Liability Ins., and every year it's the same answer, no. Joe's a great guy with major knowledge of our field but he's always appreciably higher than the lowest price I can find, and believe me you should be shopping your insurance as rates are on the rise. I only use Joe's name as an example here because truth be told I'd really like to do business with him.

All that aside I think any of us who do what we do are proud of our chosen profession but I don't feel like I have to belong to an association of my peers just because there is one. Obviously that's pretty ludicrous. I will remain ambivalent towards PWNA until I see them doing something for the "little guy" in this business.
 
All of you have posted some very good and valid ideas. Please, keep it going. We have just formed a committee to take a closer look at membership dues. Value for the money is also one of my biggest concerns. Just as it had been mentioned within this thread, whether the dues were $250, $100, or free some people find no real value in the organization; this is something we will look at. Giving discounts for PWNA members over a certain amount of years is also a consideration. There are many things within the thread that I liked and others ideas I had not considered. Building a great organization comes from ideas and implementing. By discussing PWNA (good or bad) means you care. I appreciate all the additional effort all of you take to post your thoughts and ideas on this matter or anything else that has to do with PWNA.
 
Great to see you guys checking out the comments about your group.

I was thinking about some of the other associations we are members of for ideas. For example we are members of the local builders association simply because we get immediate returns by way of new business from it. They are big on functions, but also in contact with members. Fax updates regarding equipment deals, small group meetings at local restaurants, etc. Their magazine each month is wonderful and very informative. Plus we get discounts on our local Pittsburgh Business Times magazine which is a great weekly business pub. Did you notice that Ron setup Roundtables around the country for power washers of this BBS? That would have been one of those things PWNA should have done. Actually, it would be one of those things you should look at doing anyway. Out here we go to contractor association dinners, why wouldn't it be possible to have pw meetings?

The problem with all this stuff is that all of us have companies to run and can't spend the amount of time necessary to devote to setting up meetings and running them, etc. This is what PWNA is for. How hard would it be to have a bi-annual meeting in the middle of the state where all the power washers could meet to exchange ideas, meet each other, and develop solid business relationships with each other? PWNA could run something like that with limited investment by simply acting as the central contact point. You could find one or two contacts in every state that could help you run things locally. You could make them open to all companies regardless of membership and just have a display at each meeting touting the benefits of membership. The other thing you should do is split the membership into something smaller guys can handle. One of the guys we sub out to here asked me about PWNA one day and he said his biggest problem was that he couldn't afford the $250 all at once. If you split it up you'd probably get takers for 6 month memberships. Better idea would be to drop the membership fee to something like $100 and just recoup your investment elsewhere.

Ask Joe about how insurance works. If PWNA offered insurance to it's members you could get paid a referral commission and still offer a discount to your members. One of the problems a lot of guys have is not understanding insurance issues. PWNA should have a section of their web site devoted to nothing but issues related to running pw businesses like answers on workers comp and liability issues. You could charge an annual web site access fee like $50. Some guys will use it, others aren't even on the net and won't. I've noticed a lot of guys on this board talk about paying their guys as 1099 contractors, but they don't have a clue as to how much attention the IRS pays to that nor how much the penalties are for wrongly classifying employees as 1099 indies. If PWNA had a tax issues section, that would be the place to get answers on those kinds of things. If you do a web site though, put somebody in charge of updating it continuously, there's nothing worse than a stale site. Delco's site is a good example, they've got a lot of info for somebody new to the site, but much of it hasn't changed in a long time.

I could write about stuff like this for hours, but that's about all the time I have on this. Point is, if you guys sit down and brainstorm about things you can do to help the guys in the field other than just setting up seminars, you'd be surprised how many people will start wanting memberships to your group. Especially when guys like me start saying things like "now that you're in business, first thing you need to do is get a PWNA membership."

Hope that helps... :)
 
That's a great idea about a Tax area. Haven't seen one on any of the boards and would probably go over well if PWNA developed a tax adviser. What ya think?
reed
 
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