Some licensing info

Tony Shelton

BS Detector, Esquire
The common thread is contracting licenses nationwide (except for one state which I will get to later)
specify
1) Installation
2) repair or
3)modification as being the point where a license is required.

We don't do either of those three. We just clean.

I thought California would be the strictest, but I was wrong. Of the seven states I listed earlier with possible licensing problems for Air Duct Cleaners I found that we are ok for sure in California and Arizona.

I haven't been able to reach Texas, Michigan, Arkansas, or Georgia yet, but I suspect they will be just like California and Arizona based on the fact that a preliminary search of duct cleaners that also clean coils resulted in a slew of duct cleaners without contractor licenses.

Now, FLORIDA......Three calls to the Florida license gestapo resulted in these three answers:
1) We cannot verify any license requirements other than what is posted on the website, call an attorney to advise you.
2) We cannot verify any license requirements other than what is posted on the website, call an attorney to advise you.
3) We cannot verify any license requirements other than what is posted on the website, call an attorney to advise you.

WHAT A CROCK!

A few more calls to duct cleaners that advertise coil cleaning produced the following conclusion....

IT APPEARS that you have to be licensed in some capacity to do HVAC maintenance in Florida to clean coils

I know you don't have to be licensed in ANY of those states to clean or change filters. (I have a business relationship with a company that changes filters all over the south including Georgia and Florida and they are NOT required to have contractor licenses for that.)

I still have to verify Georgia, Texas, Arkansas and Michigan though.

Hang in there.
 
The common thread is contracting licenses nationwide (except for one state which I will get to later)
specify
1) Installation
2) repair or
3)modification as being the point where a license is required.

We don't do either of those three. We just clean.

I thought California would be the strictest, but I was wrong. Of the seven states I listed earlier with possible licensing problems for Air Duct Cleaners I found that we are ok for sure in California and Arizona.

I haven't been able to reach Texas, Michigan, Arkansas, or Georgia yet, but I suspect they will be just like California and Arizona based on the fact that a preliminary search of duct cleaners that also clean coils resulted in a slew of duct cleaners without contractor licenses.

Now, FLORIDA......Three calls to the Florida license gestapo resulted in these three answers:
1) We cannot verify any license requirements other than what is posted on the website, call an attorney to advise you.
2) We cannot verify any license requirements other than what is posted on the website, call an attorney to advise you.
3) We cannot verify any license requirements other than what is posted on the website, call an attorney to advise you.

WHAT A CROCK!

A few more calls to duct cleaners that advertise coil cleaning produced the following conclusion....

IT APPEARS that you have to be licensed in some capacity to do HVAC maintenance in Florida to clean coils

I know you don't have to be licensed in ANY of those states to clean or change filters. (I have a business relationship with a company that changes filters all over the south including Georgia and Florida and they are NOT required to have contractor licenses for that.)

I still have to verify Georgia, Texas, Arkansas and Michigan though.

Hang in there.

Tony, I may have your answer for Florida. My son works for a local A/C repair business and he tells me that in order for them them to properly clean A/C coils they have to REMOVE THEM. That would explain the HVAC license. If you break the lines you need a license (for evac,removal, install, leak check and fill). I do not see a reason for a license for your method.
 
Tony, I may have your answer for Florida. My son works for a local A/C repair business and he tells me that in order for them them to properly clean A/C coils they have to REMOVE THEM. That would explain the HVAC license. If you break the lines you need a license (for evac,removal, install, leak check and fill). I do not see a reason for a license for your method.

He must be talking about evaporator coils. In humid areas they will get funk in them and have to be REALLY cleaned out.

He must work for a very thorough company if they remove them. In my area, if it is bad enough to be removed they won't clean it, they'll just make the customer buy a new one.

Ask him to take a look at this video. He's probably going to freak out about flooding the area below, but we have a method that prevents that. See if he thinks blasting away at it like this with 160 degrees and coil cleaner would work.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NhmDt20QZ_0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NhmDt20QZ_0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
In Texas to work on an HVAC unit alone you have to have an ACR ( air conditioning and refrigeration) contractors license. A licensed technician can only work under the supervision of the contractor. The below was copied from the State website.

(2) “Air conditioning and refrigeration contracting” means performing or offering to perform the design, installation, construction, repair, maintenance, service, or modification of equipment or a product in an environmental air conditioning system, a commercial refrigeration system, or a process cooling or heating system.

It sounds like you have to have the license to do any maintenance. But it might still be worth calling the state.

Telephone: (512) 463-6599
Toll-Free (in Texas): 800-803-9202
Fax: (512) 475-2871
Relay Texas-TDD: (800) 735-2989

Or emailing them.

Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Contractors
CS.Air.Conditioning@license.state.tx.us
 
In Texas to work on an HVAC unit alone you have to have an ACR ( air conditioning and refrigeration) contractors license. A licensed technician can only work under the supervision of the contractor. The below was copied from the State website.

(2) “Air conditioning and refrigeration contracting” means performing or offering to perform the design, installation, construction, repair, maintenance, service, or modification of equipment or a product in an environmental air conditioning system, a commercial refrigeration system, or a process cooling or heating system.

It sounds like you have to have the license to do any maintenance. But it might still be worth calling the state.

Telephone: (512) 463-6599
Toll-Free (in Texas): 800-803-9202
Fax: (512) 475-2871
Relay Texas-TDD: (800) 735-2989

Or emailing them.

Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Contractors
CS.Air.Conditioning@license.state.tx.us

I was on hold with them for 40 minutes today and earlier this morning their website wouldn't come up. I'll try them again tomorrow.

Meanwhile I have an acquaintance who owns a filter service company near Austin. I will call him in the morning to find out for sure.
 
Yea inside evaporative coils get removed and combed. The supposed cleanable filter mats are biggest offenders at creating a need to take system apart. Never ever use them!. Them outside cleanable filters for commercial compressors are different situation. Afterall we usually see people cleaning both the filters and the coils/fins allowing the water to just run off. Don't have that pleasure on an inside..
 
Yea inside evaporative coils get removed and combed. The supposed cleanable filter mats are biggest offenders at creating a need to take system apart. Never ever use them!. Them outside cleanable filters for commercial compressors are different situation. Afterall we usually see people cleaning both the filters and the coils/fins allowing the water to just run off. Don't have that pleasure on an inside..

Are you talking about those filters that just look like a thin peice of mesh like you see in a window ac? Those only keep out big particles.

I don't do inside work unless I have to do a few inside ones to get a BIG rootop account. Even then I charge three times as much per filter for inside work.

We advertise as rooftop only. That way we can keep our prices down.

Inside filter changes are a pain and inside evap cleaning can only be done with a good quality air compressor or chemicals and those methods are only slightly effective.

I spent almost an hour on the phone with the contractor's board in California.(While I'm glad to inquire for you guys I have to admit that I did it mostly because I have a chain of stores I will be bidding soon that has 98 stores in Southern California)

From that conversation I got three guys, one of which was a boss of some sort, to confirm that as long as we don't INSTALL, REPAIR, OR ALTER the equipment we do not have to have any contractor's license AT ALL. I asked about taking it apart and they said as long as we don't DISCONNECT (turning the unit off is ok), or dismantle the WORKING PARTS of the unit we are just a CLEANING SERVICE and that is permissible.

The only negative about that is that you will not be allowed to cut in and add service doors for the filters to make it easier. (I don't do that anyway. I have however told the customer that they had to pay someone to do that before I would service the account if the filter access was too difficult.)

California as a whole is a go. But as Jim can tell you checking with the local areas in California may be advisable.

(Jim, since I used your name in this post I'll be sending you the customary royalty check of $0.02)
 
I just sent the Texas location an email describing the service and explaining what I would be doing and not doing and asking if I would need a license to low-pressure wash the coils of outside and rooftop units.

Let's see what they say. I will try calling them also.






_________________
Superior Power Washing<O:p</O:p
Chris Chappell<O:p</O:p
Exterior House Cleaning in Corpus Christi Texas
 
Up until recently GA was pretty lax on contractors license, you didnt need a license to build houses up until a few years ago! Ive been looking into getting an electricians license so I can install/repair fans, motors and hood light bases. Pretty easy, you just need references, work history and pass a test.
 
I cant imagine you would need a license to clean filters in ANY state. If you did Im sure every hood cleaner in the US would be in violation of the law.
 
Are you talking about those filters that just look like a thin peice of mesh like you see in a window ac? Those only keep out big particles.

I don't do inside work unless I have to do a few inside ones to get a BIG rootop account. Even then I charge three times as much per filter for inside work.

We advertise as rooftop only. That way we can keep our prices down.

Inside filter changes are a pain and inside evap cleaning can only be done with a good quality air compressor or chemicals and those methods are only slightly effective.

No not thin..these are thick weaved type marketed as cleanable or that they last a year or so.. BS is what it is. They let too big a particle through. What they allow through in like a year is like what a normal filter allows in like 10.Costs hundreds to clean an inside evap properly. I've tried here with hose and chem and there was just no way to get it all. I could only get back about 75% or so of the units efficiency. If system charged and but inside lines freezing up you likely suffering from such situation. The coil can't passs air so it freezes up into one big block compounding things. Inside house yer temp may be cold coming out vents but hardly any air flow. Costs big money in running such system. Sometimes if ice melts it will take a good amount of the dirt with it if yer lucky. So again, fair warning folks, don't use such filters inside yer house!
We really had filter issues around these parts last year with all the fires we had.
 
Thanks Tony for reseaching things for all of us, always looking forward to your posts on filter and coil cleaning!
 
Here is the response that I got back today, looks like I would have to have a license to do the coil or filter cleaning unless I am reading this wrong. Here is their response:

Dear Chris Chappell,

Thank you for contacting TDLR. In response to your email inquiry. Yes, cleaning Air Conditioner coils is considered maintenance in which a license is required for those active in that capacity in the state of TX. On the TDLR website... http://www.license.state.tx.us/acr/acrrules.htm, section 75.30 Exemptions will provide you with further information if you need it, or feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,


TDLR Customer Service Team
1.800.803.9202
Tawanna Jackson







_________________
Superior Power Washing<O:p</O:p
Chris Chappell<O:p</O:p
Exterior House Cleaning in Corpus Christi Texas
 
No not thin..these are thick weaved type marketed as cleanable or that they last a year or so.. BS is what it is. They let too big a particle through. What they allow through in like a year is like what a normal filter allows in like 10.Costs hundreds to clean an inside evap properly. I've tried here with hose and chem and there was just no way to get it all. I could only get back about 75% or so of the units efficiency. If system charged and but inside lines freezing up you likely suffering from such situation. The coil can't passs air so it freezes up into one big block compounding things. Inside house yer temp may be cold coming out vents but hardly any air flow. Costs big money in running such system. Sometimes if ice melts it will take a good amount of the dirt with it if yer lucky. So again, fair warning folks, don't use such filters inside yer house!
We really had filter issues around these parts last year with all the fires we had.

The filters we use have a one inch polyester core with the addition of a think layer of polypropelene (electrostatic) material on the front and the back. The polyester alone allows too much dust through based on my testing.

I took a large unit with 16 filters that was going to be replaced in the spring and paid a property manager to allow me to leave it running on fan 24 hours for a period of 3 months to do periodic checks and tests.

Since the unit was going to be salvaged anyway I didn't have to worry about burning up the fan motor. In each row I put 1 pleated filter, one polyester filter, one electrostatic and one of our pleatlink filters. I spaced them so that there were no two filters alike on top of each other.

For the first month I put HIGH arrestance allergy filters behind the test filters to see how much of the inital dirt made its way through. For the second month I removed the allergy filters. For the third month I placed a new set of allergy filters behind the test filters again.

Here is a condensed version of the results:


Pleated Box Filter -
Initially stopped the most dirt.
Initial flow was very good.
At 1 Month air flow still very good
At 2 months beginning to face load, still flowing good
At 3 months air flow is diminished and lots of dirt going past the filter and into the allergy filter.
PROS - Great air flow till dirty
CONS - Face Loads and dumps dirt later on with diminished air flow

Pleatlink Box Filter - Same results as above.

Polyester Pad -
Initially let a LOT of dirt through
Initial flow a little less than the Pleated box and Pleatlink
At 1 month air flow is still good, lots of dirt on the allergy filter
At 2 months very little face loading, still flowing good
At 3 months air flow still good, lots of dirt still going past the filter and into the allergy filter.
PROS - Good air flow all the way through
CONS - Lets too much dirt through

Electrostatic filter_
Initially let just a little more dirt through than the pleated
Initial Flow a little less than the Polyester pad
At 1 month air flow is still good. Medium dirt on the allergy filter
At 2 months a little face loading, still flowing good
At 3 months still flowing the same, very little dirt on the allergy filter
PROS - Becomes more efficient as it gets dirtier while still maintaining good air flow.
CONS - Higher initial resistance to air flow -(contrary to mfg's claims)

The only negative I have found with the electrostatics is that when you get up into velocities over 1200 fpm the effect of the initial resistance is magnified. I don't use them in those units.

As far as the coil freezing, that can be caused by dirty filters, Plastic bags getting sucked into the unit blocking air flow, bent fins on the condenser creating too much head pressure and even having the unit run cold in low temps and high humidity.

We have blasted through coils where an HVAC technician couldn't even get nitrogen to blow through to the other side hardly anywhere on the coil.

It's difficult to clean an electrostic filter that has been exposed to smoke from a fire. And Really difficult to clean one over a casino with massive tobacco smoke. But it can be done. Takes time and HOT water.
 
Here is the response that I got back today, looks like I would have to have a license to do the coil or filter cleaning unless I am reading this wrong. Here is their response:

Dear Chris Chappell,

Thank you for contacting TDLR. In response to your email inquiry. Yes, cleaning Air Conditioner coils is considered maintenance in which a license is required for those active in that capacity in the state of TX. On the TDLR website... http://www.license.state.tx.us/acr/acrrules.htm, section 75.30 Exemptions will provide you with further information if you need it, or feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,


TDLR Customer Service Team
1.800.803.9202
Tawanna Jackson







_________________
Superior Power Washing<O:p</O:p
Chris Chappell<O:p</O:p
Exterior House Cleaning in Corpus Christi Texas

Hey Chris,

I just got of the phone with them. The guy told me that there are exceptions for filters and that if you are only accessing the return (where the filters go) you don't have to be licensed. He directed me to an exceptions page, but I haven't gotten their website to come up on my computer yet for some reason.

OK, in the middle of typing this I just got a call from the wife of a 15 yr owner of a filter service in Austin.

She said the legislature tried to put through a bill a few years back to require you to have a license to change filters but it failed miserably.

NO license needed to do filters.

Her husband is going to call me later about the coil cleaning.
 
Here are the exemptions

http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/75.30. Exemptions. (Section 75.30 effective January 28, 1993, 18 TexReg 301; amended effective August 1, 1994, 19 TexReg 5637; amended effective January 10, 1997, 22 TexReg 737; repealed effective July 21, 1999, 24 TexReg 5469, new section effective July 21, 1999, 24 TexReg 5470; amended effective March 7, 2001, 26 TexReg 1833; amended effective March 27, 2002, 27 TexReg2225; amended effective December 1, 2003, 28 TexReg 10465; amended effective August 1, 2006, 31 TexReg 5944)
(a) Licensure requirements under the Act and these Rules do not apply to:
(1) persons who conduct air conditioning and refrigeration contracting, are employed by a regulated public utility facility and perform those services in connection with the utility business in which the person is employed;
(2) an individual who performs air conditioning and refrigeration maintenance work on equipment and property owned by him if he does not engage in the occupation of air conditioning and refrigeration contracting for the general public. This exemption applies only to the property owner and not to others who may attempt to assist the owner;
(3) those who hold a valid Certificate of Authorization issued by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers or The National Board of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Inspectors that are:
(A) appropriate for the scope of work to be performed, and
(B) performed solely on boilers as defined in Chapter 755 of the Health and Safety Code;
(4) persons who perform air conditioning contracting on ducted or unducted environment air conditioning equipment of three tons or less on non-commercial boats; and
(5) persons who install, repair, or remove a vent hood of the type commonly used in residential and commercial kitchens, as long as the person does not install, repair or remove any other part of the exhaust system.
(b) Unlicensed general contractors may bid or contract for a job that includes air conditioning or refrigeration if the job does not consist solely of work requiring a license under the Act.


c) Duct cleaning.
(1) Duct cleaning and air quality testing, including biomedical testing may be performed by an unlicensed person or company if:
(A) the task is limited to the air distribution system, from the supply plenum to the supply grilles of the unit and from the return air grill to the air handler intake of the unit;
(B) no cuts are made to ducts or plenums;
(C) no changes are made to electrical connections; and
(D) the only disassembly of any part of the system is opening or removal of return and supply air grilles, or registers that are removable without cutting or removing any other part of the system.
(2) Biomedical testing may be performed by an unlicensed person or company. Biomedical remediation requires a license



I COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING ON CLEANING COILS.
 
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