How Hot?

tomtucson

tomtucson

New member
At what temperature does the water get special powers? Is there a number where the water starts to do something different?

What are some things that can only be done with very high-heat?

Where are the biggest improvements in speed or effectiveness?

Will very high heat clean without soap? Will the dirt/oil redeposit?
 
For KEC work hot can be very good in certian circumstances Grease starts to emulsify at 180 so hot can break it down quicker in KEC work.
 
I have heard from several guys/company's out there that above 160 degrees the chemicals lose their effectiveness.

When I met some carpet cleaners they told me that one of the best chemical engineers says that for every 20 degrees above 160 the chemicals work better (almost like doubling their effectiveness) so who do you believe.

This chemical engineer makes a whole line of stuff for the carpet cleaning industry, writes articles and has been in the industry for over 25 years.

Maybe their chemicals are that much better or engineered better than ours?

Most of the guys that clean carpet say that their water/steam temp is way over 200 degrees.

Who do you believe???





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Those are all very good points, and all of them are correct.

Heat is very good for grease and oil of which is what we do when we remove oil from parking structures / parking garages.

As far as soap, It is very important to get a detergent that works well with the high heat especially if you use the in line injector to apply your soap. We do not use an in line soap dispersal system. We hand scrub each stain. Giving it time to emulsify with the oil, then using the high temp, both the oil and soap gets dislodged from the concrete and is rinsed completely, then redirected into a pre laboratory tested filtration system to meet EPA requirements.
 
If the surfactant and or soaps and degreesers are given time to dwell, they will do their job before you run the surface cleaner over it, so i dont see how heat will affect the break down?

I know for a fact that when i degreese a sidewalk and let it sit for 5 or 10 min it cleans very well, i use a Buytl based degreeser..
 
The Cleaner said:
If the surfactant and or soaps and degreesers are given time to dwell, they will do their job before you run the surface cleaner over it, so i dont see how heat will affect the break down?

I know for a fact that when i degreese a sidewalk and let it sit for 5 or 10 min it cleans very well, i use a Buytl based degreeser..
Click to expand...

Come on a KEC job with me, and I'll show you how much of a difference heat makes.:D
 
Have you ever been washing dishes in the sink, and theres that bowl of stuff from about 3 days ago, caked with %#@$. As you turn the water on and run it over the nasty bowl it starts SLOWLY coming off and you have to put some elbow grease in there, But when the water starts to heat up the nastyness starts to melt off....I think about p/wing every time I clean dishes...LOL
 
To me the atom is more powerfull than any heat - when you get the right chemistry working for you its all over for dirt/grime/grease. But I'm wondering if theres a point, like 250 or close to 300 above where the heat starts to break stuff down without soap.
 
The Cleaner said:
If the surfactant and or soaps and degreesers are given time to dwell, they will do their job before you run the surface cleaner over it, so i dont see how heat will affect the break down?

I know for a fact that when i degreese a sidewalk and let it sit for 5 or 10 min it cleans very well, i use a Buytl based degreeser..
Click to expand...

I second this thought. When I apply a chemical, it's the chemical loosening and breaking down the dirt and soiling prior to rinsing. Pressure washing is simply rinsing away what the chemical broke down. The pressure also cleans as well, but not at the same time as the chemical.
 
BUNN said:
Come on a KEC job with me, and I'll show you how much of a difference heat makes.:D
Click to expand...

Read my post, i didn't say that heat dont work? I said that the chemical breaks it down and the heat takes it from there.

I have done many jobs that are Heat only and have had great result's, but chemical always does a better job along with heat.
 
Guess it depends on what your doing. Ive used a pretty strong chem mix (probably stronger than most flatworkers would use) and only had cold water...............I was pissed at the extra work I had to do. Ive had very hot water and crappy chems.............same result. Good chems and the hottest water possible makes the job the easiest.
 
It dose depend on the surface you are cleaning, However, High heat along with detergent is usually the best method for cleaning a high PH surface, oil.

I have a sub contractor who has a 560,000 BTU ( approx ) boiler at 5.6 @ 4,000 psi. Our equipment is 1.1 million BTU each at 4,300 @ 5.8 GPM.

For this test, we brought the pressure and GPM's down to the same as our Sub. We used the same detergent and the same amount. Each of us did 1/2 of the same floor. We got done faster by only 10 minutes or so, however our side was a shades lighter then the 560,000 BTU Boiler side.

Our Temp was at 287 degrees while our sub contractor had a max temp at that time of 190 degrees. This was the only difference that we saw. The surface cleaners was identical....Steel Eagle 30 inch 3 bar at 15 degree 2.0 x 3 with the Dueblin swivel.

The whole point in this is Heat is more important then most may think. The example of the crud in the bowl is a good example. High heat speeds up the molecules in any giving item. This action will loosen there bond on each other as well as the surface that they are bonded to. Cold makes the bond more dense, like ice vs water vs a cloud of steam.

If someone out there believes that 45 degree water will clean as well as or better then 300 degrees steam under the same pressure when it comes to oil, I invite them to give me a call. I would like to hear from you. LOL:D


That's my 2 cents !!
 
Important to note, when manufacturers quote boiler BTU's, this is the burner BTU rating/setting. The burner to boiler pipe efficiency is what is going to take the burner BTU's and transfer it to the water to give the heat rise. (can't do much about the pipe to water efficiency)

A lot of that heat is vented in the stack. If you run the pump supply line over the stack (some exposed coil design) and allow it to pre-heat the inlet water it would increase overall efficiency, just be careful not to cross 140F which most industrial pumps are rated for.

With some contractors running 3 plus burners, it may be advantageous to have an engineered waste heat recovery system. (the side effect should be better fuel economy for the same heat rise)
 
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Good Point. When we do garages, the heat from our boilers keep that floor warm. Sometimes up to 10 degrees warmer, providing there is no wind.

Let me tell you, when I am standing around supervising, 10 degrees rise is a good thing. It's still cold, but no where near as cold as the floor below.

For those of you on the east coast, In California, the definition of cold is 45. degrees. :eek: Yesterday, we had to put on our wind breaker jackets.... 78 degrees during the day. :D LoL
 
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