Pwna Brainstorming

Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member
I want everyone to know I’m a PWNA member. I want to thanks Robert Hidialiter for founding and organization. I know that when the organization was founded higher expectations where dreamed about. We cannot ever blame one man for its failure to be what everyone expects. The PWNA has done some positive things. Think about this???? If Robert had not founded the org. we wouldn’t have anything? Thanks Again Robert & the rest of my Brothers of the PWNA.


In this post I want no one to attack any individual personally, rather gather your thoughts and give positive impute of how these hard working people could better the organization. Be positive and constructive about the criticism. Please be as professional about your ideas.

I will start with some questions I have for whom ever is president. It will be Chris or Michael?

1. Will you reduce the membership fee for veterans members so they will stay on as members?(100.00) Instead of 250.00
2. Can we get some regional Support?
3. Could we work on having Board members in every region?
4. Can we appoint volunteer board members to assist in the overwhelming tasks for all things that need to be accomplished?
5. Could we try another West Coast national meeting somewhere other than Las Vegas?
6. Organize a buying group with real benefits for members?
7. Get a great health insurance plan for contractors.
8. Could we make the certifications mean something? (market them to customers)
9. Could we organize a national contractors day. ( have round table meetings Locally)
10. Could make belonging to the org. something more than a symbol.


My biggest response why PWNA board members don’t post on Bulletin boards is in the past they have been ridiculed for their participation. Let’s not give them that excuse, please remain pros.

Please ad to my list, I will send this copy of the letter to every new & old board member of the PWNA. Don’t take my Post wrong or in a negative way. I’m just trying to make some progression with this organization. We as members need to realize that its not what the PWNA gives you but what you can do for them. If you expect to gain something you need to put something in, I’m not talking about the 250.00 dollars.

I invite members as well as non-members in this participation.
 
Just one thing, why only the members who have been there for 2 years getting the lower rate.

I would suggest that the membership rate be set between $100 and $150 period, new and renewing members.

And don't increase the convention rates to make up for it.

Some of his idea's are great and would enjoy seeing them happen IF only _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (fill in your own words).
 
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1. Will you reduce the membership fee for veterans members so they will stay on as members?(100.00) Instead of 250.00 =,,,,,,I don't see where reducing price would have a meaning as to stay on as a member.

2. Can we get some regional Support?=,,If a member I think that should be done by members in that region,got to give support before support can be given.

3. Could we work on having Board members in every region?=,,What region,the PWNA has members all over the USA and if someone wanted to be on the board in their area they have the right to run as a board member.

4. Can we appoint volunteer board members to assist in the overwhelming tasks for all things that need to be accomplished?=,,I figure they have that in place already,all they have to do is ask if they want to volunteer to help the PWNA.

5. Could we try another West Coast national meeting somewhere other than Las Vegas?=,,I do not see the PWNA trying to stop no one from trying for national meetings anywhere in the USA,I'm sure the west coast could try again if they want.

6. Organize a buying group with real benefits for members?=,,Its the reason the PWNA has meetings,as to organize in a group which helps its members benefit.

7. Get a great health insurance plan for contractors.=,,I've seen the PWNA point to a insurance company several times before,I figure this conpany knows the powerwashing trade will are they wouldn't point at the company,,guess it depends what one calls a great plan.

8. Could we make the certifications mean something? (market them to customers) =,,I've seen several members on powerwashing bbs that use their certifications at the bottom of their post,is this not helping market to the customer,if it has no meaning they wouldn't show it even on their business cards.The member carrying the certification should make it mean something instead of in hopes of.

9. Could we organize a national contractors day. ( have round table meetings Locally) =,,As a non member I don't think the PWNA would stand in the way nomatter what day it is if it bettered the PWNA and it's members.

10. Could make belonging to the org. something more than a symbol. =,,The PWNA does mean something,its how the member wants to show the symbol as to get more of as to their belonging to.

I know the Q'tions wasn't meant for me but thought I'd saying something from the over side of the fence in my thinking as a nonmember and for the PWNA







 
I am a charter board member of Oregon Fire Equipment Distributors, OR-FED. Our dues are set as a % of the gross income from sales and service of fire extinguishers. We felt that was fair for the small operators and the large operators. I think the rate is 1/10 of 1% of the gross from fire extinguisher and chemical suppression systems only. Could the presssure washers orginization do something similar??

The only reason I have not joined is that I do not see any particular benfit to me or my company. At present we are members of OR-FED, American Fire Alarm Association, National Fire Protection Association, & National Fire Sprinkler Association and 2 local Chambers of Commerce. Those orginization offer benefits that are worth something to me. Membership cost is from $125.00 to $500.00 per year.

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
 
I would definitely like to see the PWNA lower there membership cost which is very unlikely. They have around 360 members that pay at least $250(Contractors) and some pay as high as $450(Manufacturers). SO for them to lower there price is probably not going to happen.

Its like asking us to lower our prices when we do a job even though we are getting plenty of work at our current prices.

The only solution to this would be to get alot more benefits for the price we pay to be members as contractors. I think the suppliers and manufacturers get there money's worth because they get to show there Items at these conventions which means in the end they will make a ton of money because there sale's should increase.

As far as the contractors price I don't see enough benefits in joining for the $250 price tag. This has been discussed numerous times so it is no point in going into it.

The other point I would like to make is we need a guy like MIKE HUGHES to get in because he would be good representation for us guys where with our Idea's he could possibly help make them possible. We need a guy on the inside which is what we don't have now. That is why our griping goes on to deaf ears.(Just a figure of speach).

So once again until we have proper representation this conversation is more or less pointless. We have gotten nowhere in the last few years with this. Just my 2 cents worth.

John
 
The only way to make the certifications mean something is for the AHJ's to recongnize them, and or make it a stipulation for doing work in that area, seems like a bureaucratic nightmare to me.
 
keep it coming

There are a lot of good ideas happening here! I would be lying to say I am for all of them but don't stop putting them out there.

Its going to take some time but within 6 months many of your ideas and concerns are going to addressed.

Thanks,
 
You basically reiterated my prior posts in your question section, so I don't want to rehash that stuff. The only thing that jumped out at me from your post was the following:

1. "We cannot ever blame one man for its failure to be what everyone expects. The PWNA has done some positive things. Think about this???? If Robert had not founded the org. we wouldn’t have anything?"

2. "We as members need to realize that its not what the PWNA gives you but what you can do for them."

Please don't misunderstand here Ron, I'm not trying to PWNA bash in my prior posts or this one, I just think there's a serious cultural difference between what PWNA thinks it's role should be and what guys in the field think they should be doing.

I haven't spoken with anyone who faults Hinderlighter for starting the organization. Nor do I think any one individual can be blamed for it's failings. The problem PWNA has is that it seems to think too much like your 2nd comment above. There's got to be a quid pro quo, a give and take to anything in business. Where that give and take exists is what they need to convey better to the guys in the field. Heck $250 is cheap compared to my time which is more valuable to me than money. However, I'm still not going to part with either without somebody from PWNA figuring out how to sell me on the idea that it's worth my while to do so.

The thing that they need to understand is that I really like the idea of being a member of PWNA. I just don't like the idea that nobody can tell me why I should be a member.

Somebody in another post mentioned Joe Walters being more expensive than other insurers out there. Sure, we could have probably saved a few hundred bucks a year if we went with another carrier, but I've met Joe because his office is 10 minutes from mine here in Pittsburgh. And the thing that he does for me is give me peace of mind knowing that he's got me covered for anything that's going to happen to my business. I've got another agent for my other insurance needs, but most of us realize just how specialized our insurance needs are in this industry. Joe understands that and I can sleep at night knowing he's got me covered. Is that worth paying a premium? Hell yes.

Same goes for PWNA. Like I said before, I'd pay $700, $1,000 or more if they simply show me that there is a benefit for me doing so.
 
Money and membership

It is without saying you get what you pay for. If I could afford the $250 membership fee and the $1200 to attend a meeting I would do it. Unfortunatly I am in my second year of business. I left a high paying job to persue this carreer and just do not have that extra money for the privledge of being a member of the PWNA. I did join my first year in business but could not afford to go to a meeting, so I did not get the bigest benefit of being a PWNA member, which is meeting and learning from other contractors. I am not a member now, only because of the dues. I may be in the future. I support the idea but when my only benefit is just to be a member, I have to shy away. As far as pricing goes new members should have a price much lower than what is required. Newbies don't have the steady income. If they have something worth paying for people will pay it, no matter what the cost. Anyone who says we should have a discount for this or that is'nt getting what they are paying for.
 
Im not bashing just saying an opinion.......... I would never pay 1200 to attend a meeting............If it's a meeting to just talk and get advice I think it's a waste of time and money...not to mention the cost of travel ..Where does that 1200 go? and IF there is 100 members 100 x 1200 Thats alot of money........What do ya get ? A cruise? I dont get it>>>>>>I would rather but an airplane and fly to the winter games.................................................
 
I guess I come from a different mindset so please bare with me. For the long time members this may not apply so easily but for the newer ones it should hit the mark.

First season to second season in business I increased yearly revenues by 327%.

Second season to third season in business I continued yearly increase by 67%

Third season to fourth increase of 62%. Each year I managed to generate a
12% profit.

Many people would say whoopee-do Doc who cares what you are doing I only care about my business. My point is without the help of so many people within the organization I do not believe my numbers would have been quite so high. I knew that the cost of going to a conference was beyond my budget but on the other hand could I really afford not to go? The last two things with any business that should be cut from the budget is marketing and
continued education. I think my company spent the first 2 years about 15-20% in education. The mistakes I avoided put additional dollars in my pocket and saved me from many problems.

I would love to see as many people as possible at the conventions but I understand the reality of budget. Please keep one thing in mind. If you are not going to the convention or be a member put some dollars a side to keep a fresh mind through other avenues of continued education.

Just out of curiosity
How many of you have a budget and know what you will be spending next year?
 
Just want to clarify

Just want to say that the $1200 I was talking about would be total (almost) cost with travel.
 
Doc,

I know where some of your profits went.........you bought me a beer back in Cleveland in 2000. :) thanks.


Walter, thanks for the clarification.


Dan S.,

I have always felt it was money well spent. Everyone's costs are different, depending on travel costs...............so far, the shows I have gone to have been fairly close to home, I drove to two of them, and got cheap airfare to go to another. One of the upcoming shows in early 2003 will be in Las Vegas.......and you can usually find reasonable airfare to get there...........my wife is packing her bags already for that trip.........I dont think I'm getting out of it. :)

Our next show is this fall in Pittsburgh............that being so close to you, I expect to see you there!
 
Mike that would be a great place to meet.... However Im still not going to spend that kind of money for a meetting.... maybe I can just drive down and skip the meettings and take everybody out to supper......

How much education do you need to wash a trk? Just aim and rince............. And I'll be darned if im going to pay somebody to tell me how to do it....I'll just call big-boy if I cant get a bug off.

so where does all that money go? no body answered that one

Yes im all for education..... thats why im on this bb and others .... I get mag. in the mail all the time read them from cover to cover sometimes 3 times..... and it only cost me the price of the mag...
And if I want to go on a cruise .................. I will do it and leave my p/wer book at home..............
 
PWNA must establish and enforce a Code of Ethics and enforce the code with checks of its members. Second they must get a medical program for the members. Third, establish local and state coop groups to make advantage of the groups buying power at a local level.

PWNA should require its member to have liability insurance, workers comp, along with other item to show that he is a business in good standing.

Today PWNA has no power because they are focused on the shows and the fluff that they bring. We don’t need two shows per year. The members simply don’t need it.

Just ask yourself am I getting better pricing because I am a member of PWNA-the answer is questionable. Local groups are the keys for making group buys and discounts. A coop group will get what they need, however one member of PWNA does not get a second look. Volume and dollars talk.

Since all I service are exhaust systems, PWNA is lacking in anything that fits the need of an established exhaust cleaner. I may re-join IKEKA-because of the focus.

David
 
Dan S.

Where does the money go?

I know we are going to get and answer that it cost slot of money to run and organization.

Let’s see,

1. insurance
2. Avery management
3. receptionist
4. phone lines
5. stationery
6. postage
7. printing
8. long distance
I sure I missed about 20 or 30 others

Remember they only have about 300 members at 250.00 that’s not a lot of money when you’re trying to reach literally thousands of people in the field. I’m sure that and accounting of the money is in order.




David,

You have some great points and I would love to see some real benefits.

To everyone,

Now this led me to the real issue, lets help and let all get involved. With the PWNA or without we all need to make our individual marks in this field and help. One man can make a difference but one man cannot do it alone. Chris and the rest of the Board need to delegate authority and start getting the money raised to help the industry.


I’m choosing to support the PWNA, I realize that the benefits are not what they should be. I personally know that some of these board members realize that they are nothing as well. I am standing behind Chris because I think he can finally make a difference.

Instead of us talking about something lets all say at the end of this year I helped instead of complaining and got involved. Those folks hear with the biggest complaints should be our biggest supporters.


Ask yourself

Do you want group medical insurance for around 120.00 a month?

Do you want buying power as a group?


Do you want a marketing campaign locally?

Do you want group meeting on a regular basis locally?

Chris, Doc and anyone else can’t do this with 300 members. We need 5000


I’m not a board member of the PWNA these are my own opinions and may not reflect the PWNA boards opinion.
 
Things would really have to change to get 5000 members.Like cruises,meetings that cost you your arm and part of your leg to attend..........etc.........
 
I guess in all fairness I will stay outa this I think I said enough ... we had this same topic about a year ago and I think it ruffled alot feathers back then too.

If you joined great!!!!!!! You are one of those future 5000 .
 
Dan s.

Tell me you understand that Numbers mean power????????

Just a little analogy, if I buy one gallon of a certain chemical my cost might be 6.00 a gallon. If I buy four or five drums, My cost may be 3.00 a gallon.

So if the membership were larger that would mean they would carry more weight with insurance companies and so on. (Bigger discounts for members)
Maybe the cruise might have cost less?


Don’t stay out but do understand that do something about what your talking about and realize its not going to happen just talking about it.

If you really care and want these benefits to get better help!!!!!! if you just want to tell everyone what’s wrong and do nothing to help change it then your right stay out.

No hard feelings Dan I think its that simple…


I really have had the same problems with this organization.

Let me tell you when I tried to call and become a member. 1999 over two years ago I called to give someone my credit card to become a member. I couldn’t get anyone to return my call to take my credit card to become a member. Then all the guys on these BBS were starting saying bad things. I said forget becoming a member of that organization because they suck!!!!!!!!!

Nine-phone call documented and no one would take my money….

I’m giving them one more chance because I believe that Chris can make a difference.


Chris is one man and together we could help him. I’m not even suggesting you become a member just open your eyes and vision some of the things you would like to see change. I know things are not perfect in anyone’s world. I have very few complaints about life but a network of guys with one focus for some real benefits would be nice. Having a built brotherhood of guys & gals to help when I need it would be nice.



Chris I would like to see others with the same passion on the PWNA as I have. Do we have any others?
 
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