Some months ago, I explained that this was happening....

Jim@Garagecleaning

Jim@Garagecleaning

banned
If this forum is going to be a problem, then erase or remove it. I am not posting this to create a problem, just to advise of an issue.


Some of us was unable to get on the UAMCC for one reason or another. So I thought I would "Copy" this Forum from their site to post it here. I think that is alright because "Correct" knowledge is power.




7/18/09, 8:23 am


Originally Posted by Carlos

The UAMCC received a call a week or so ago from the gentleman below. He is a Environmental Compliance Officer here in Northern California.

Needless to say I was thrown a little off guard when he told me that he found the UAMCC by visiting the different industry related Bulletin Boards. He casually stated that he visits them all the time.

I made all the owners of the different BBS's aware of this.

Anyway, his real purpose is to open some dialogue with the UAMCC relating to BMP's for Central Costa County. I wanted to share the discussion with all of you thus far. The below emails are listed in chronological order!


> Carlos,
>
> Thanks for your time this morning discussing the possibility of UAMCC
> assisting in a possible environmental compliance training class 101 for
> mobile washers. As I briefly explained on the phone, I handle
> pretreatment and storm water inspections in the central Contra Costa
> County area and would like to get some educational outreach to the
> mobile washers on what is required of them to comply in this area.
> Please feel free to contact me with any questions.
>
> XXXXX XXXXXXXXX
> Environmental Compliance Inspector II
> Central Contra Costa Sanitary District
> 5019 Imhoff Place
> Martinez, CA 94553
> (925) xxx-xxxx


"Marcus",

It was a pleasure speaking with you also. I am encouraged with the idea
that Central Contra Costa is considering having a open-dialogue with the
mobile contract cleaning industry as it relates to the county's BMP's for
waste water.

As mentioned, the UAMCC was instrumental in assisting the city of
Charlotte and Meklenburg county with their BMP's relating to waste water
runoff. The UAMCC served as a buoy if you will for not only the pressure
washing industry but also assisted in bridging the gap of understanding
between Level I, II & III municipalities and the pressure washing industry
in general. I have enclosed some literature from that meeting for your
review.

Our experience with the CWA and BMP's are keen and vast. The UAMCC's
Environmental Consultant, Mr. Robert Hindeliter, brings a wealth of
experience and expertise to the table. Mr. Hindeliter is considered to be
an expert in the field of wast water management. For a quick snapshot of
the experience that Mr. Hindeliter brings to this subject matter, I would
recommend that you "google" his name.

Our question for Central Costa County revolves around your current BMP's
and what they mean for the pressure washing industry? It is our hope that
the UAMCC will be afforded an opportunity to comment/review the BMP's that
are in place today. Coupled with adopted BMP's, all of Contra Costa
County is facing a serious drought problem. The environmental impact that
water restrictions will cause can also be viewed as a topic that would
most certainly be brought up with BMP discussions.

Representing the pressure washing industry is certainly the UAMCC's main
plight but we also are just as concerned and determined to ensure that
environmental policies are adhere to by our industry. We must ensure that
whatever 'practices' materialize that there is a "fair and responsible"
balance in which BMP's do not drive legitimate business owners out of
business. This is the proclivities that municipalities nationwide and the
pressure washing industry must deal with today.

In order to gain a better understanding of what you want to do 'Marcus",
please elaborate more on your vision and purpose for the training seminar.
Based on your answers, both Robert and I can offer up a summary with our
recommendations on how to proceed.

Sincerely,

Carlos Gonzales
Executive Director
United Assoc. of Mobile Contract Cleaners ~ UAMCC
5055 Business Center Drive
Suite 108 ~ #225
Fairfield, CA 94534
Toll Free: 1-800-816-3240
Mobile: 707-812-3702
www.uamcc.org
www.uamcc.org/forum
info@uamcc.org


As I mentioned a few months ago,

I have also found out that Nevada, Arizona are reading these forums as well as California. Though they cannot join in the discussion for whatever reason, or I should say "at least not yet", they are visiting as an anonymous guests.

This is not a "Scare Tactic"... it is just plain facts. The State, County and City Environmental Agencies are being more active in the field of pressure washing and this movement is growing. It is my understanding that they are just curious in the forums and what everyone is doing to comply with their local laws ( Which maybe more restrictive than then any federal laws ) for discharge. ( Check with your city, county or sanitation districts for the correct discharge requirements in your area that you are washing. Every city or county may be different. What we do is find out who is the most restrictive and follow their guidelines. Then we do not have to worry which side of the fence we are on. )

These are facts based on the above thread from Carlos. What you do with this information is up to you. I am just one guy who gets some information that I feel would help all of us.

God forbid that one day I do not tell what I found out, and someone gets fined. Later they find out that I could of told them months in advance. With that knowledge, they may not of gotten that huge fine.

If only they knew whats coming down the pipeline.
 
Jim, thanks for posting this.

Everyone should know what they post on the internet can be seen by every single person in the world pretty much. There is no limit. EPA, customers, family, friends, whatever. Never say anything that might get you in trouble with anyone, period. This is a good reminder.
 
If this forum is going to be a problem, then erase or remove it. I am not posting this to create a problem, just to advise of an issue.
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6kxNYT4738

Stop making comments that we do not want your posts. Keep them accurate and stop maiking assumpstions about staff & members asking you to do things. Members an staff that operate outside the forum operate privately. All business is done in Staff area, to my knowlegde no one has ever told you not to post.​
 
ckingclean said:
Jim, thanks for posting this.

Everyone should know what they post on the internet can be seen by every single person in the world pretty much. There is no limit. EPA, customers, family, friends, whatever. Never say anything that might get you in trouble with anyone, period. This is a good reminder.
Click to expand...


No one should be operating illegally...if you are then you should not be in business.

Even the goverment makes mistakes, they often dont eve know what they are talking about. opps, should i be affraid to say that? NO

Mr. Marcus doesnt scare me, if he wants to contact local enforcement in Tempe Arizona a place I have not seen stricter Enforcement anyplace in the country. ( remember I) I welcome him to.

I'm not trying to be a Jerk about Marcus and his letter to the UAMCC but reality is that he is looking for a reason. Maybe to educate himself on how to interact with the industry. Lets hope this is the case and the UAMCC & Robert H make a positive impact on our wants and needs.
 
Last edited:
I'd like to ask Mr Marcus (if he is reading this) the following:

IF nothing but RAIN can go down the drain then why are NPDES permits given?

Nothing but rain down the drain is a catchy little phrase that really means, "nothing but rain down the drain unless you have enough money to pay us to look the other way via a legal permit".

I'd like to ask him why aren't we as an industry EXEMPT?

I'd like to ask him how much caustic is put back into the water supply via ph balancing at water treatment plants and what percentage 15 contractors a night in a city of 2 million can possibly contribute in comparison to the actual water treatment plants.

This is where Ron and I disagree. On any given summer day there will be hundreds more people washing their cars in the street than there were concrete contractors cleaning concrete the night before. There's no telling what kinds of soaps individuals are using cleaning cars. But once concrete is initially cleaned, properly maintained concrete can be cleaned with NOTHING BUT HOT WATER!

Where is our EXEMPTION?

Why reclaim? Are the industries with permits reclaiming?

NO. At most they are simply using gravity filtration that removes most of the chems and byproducts. What NPDES permitted company have you ever seen with a sump pump pumping water into the grass? We're being compared with huge industries that produce massive amounts of industrial waste. THAT IS NOT WHAT OUR INDUSTRY IS!!!

Why should we be exposed to possible fines or the cost of cleanups by running all over the city with dirty water in our tanks when the simple answer is to filter the water at the site and throw the solid waste into the dumpster!

I'd like to ask Mr. Marcus to call me and explain why we are not exempt.

We are not deep pockets.

We will never be deep pockets.

Concrete cleaning is good for the environment.

But if you make it too expensive it will be phased out. That would be thousands of more jobs destroyed because common sense has not reigned.

If I am wrong about any of this Mr. Marcus please post or call.


Thank you,

Tony Shelton
Sonitx, Inc
702-358-7477
 
Ron Musgraves said:



Stop making comments that we do not want your posts. Keep them accurate and stop maiking assumpstions about staff & members asking you to do things. Members an staff that operate outside the forum operate privately. All business is done in Staff area, to my knowlegde no one has ever told you not to post.​
Click to expand...


That is not what I was saying Ron. I was only saying if this is going to be received like Al's recent post, then maybe it should be altered or removed. I am not posting to start a problem. Just stating what I found out.
 
Jim@Garagecleaning said:
That is not what I was saying Ron. I was only saying if this is going to be received like Al's recent post, then maybe it should be altered or removed. I am not posting to start a problem. Just stating what I found out.
Click to expand...

If my post causes a problem. GOOD. We need a problem. We need to quit laying down like sheep and insert some common sense into the debate.

The HVAC industry laid down like sheep and swallowed the lie that freon destroys the ozone layer. Once freon was taken out of the loop, the truth came out that it is impossible for freon to do anything to the ozone layer because freon is heavier than air and dissipates in the GROUND. But it was too late. Now prices have gone up as much as 50 times what they were before.

Let's quit being sheep and fight and be heard! This is a golden opportunity for the
UAMCC. Are you going to fight now or try to negotiate?

TRYING TO NEGOTIATE is like sitting down at the table with a man and telling him "Now I know you're going to sleep with my wife and there's nothing I can do about it, but can you please try to be quiet and limit your sessions to an hour or less"

What are you made of UAMCC?

It's spelled E-X-E-M-P-T-I-O-N
 
Russ Spence said:
this should suffice ........ My mother always said its better to not say anything and be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.


If the shoe fits wear it should do well here too.
Click to expand...

I suspect your mother was/is a wise women Russ :D
 
So people here don't think I'm crazy, below is a link to a little document from the EPA. Look in page two under:

Does This Measure Need to Address All Illicit Discharges?

http://www.epa.gov/npdes/pubs/fact2-5.pdf

And notice the following exemptions (on a national level-not local)

Water line flushing;
Landscape irrigation;
Diverted stream flows;
Rising ground waters;
Uncontaminated ground water infiltration;
Uncontaminated pumped ground water;
Discharges from potable water sources;
Foundation drains;
Air conditioning condensation;
Irrigation water;
Springs;
Water from crawl space pumps;
Footing drains;
Lawn watering;
Individual residential car washing;
Flows from riparian habitats and wetlands;
Dechlorinated swimming pool discharges; and
Street wash water.

Street wash water sends oil, transmission fluid, and everything imaginable down the storm sewer. The exemption is there because the alternative is filthy streets and a clogged storm drain system.

The alternative to exempting concrete cleaning is filthy sidewalks, algae, food byproducts leaving slippery surfaces and a general look of disrepair in the cities.

The city street sweepers here have to use water to keep the dust level down and that washes right down into the storm drain. How can our industry compare with thousands of miles of street sweeping every day of the week?

Is anyone starting to see how ridiculous it is to blame us for water pollution?

Why can't we work with the EPA to ENCOURAGE clean sidewalks?
 
I see your point Tony.

Now if the Government would see it and open their eyes.
 
Here's another one. These are the Las Vegas BMP's

Page 8

Low Impacts Washing Sidwalks and Plazas (with no oil deposits)without soap

Sweep, collect and dispose of debris. Washwater may go to storm drain.

WHAT?????? nothing but rain down the drain. It's all a lie.

Here's the link:

http://www.lvstormwater.com/pdfs/bmp_brochure.pdf
 
A quick synopsis of the story

a county commisissioners got tired of bird poop on sidewalks (downtown dallas) so his fellow voters stated showing up in dallas day of meetings with all their little pressure washers and blowing all the crap everywhere....next time it happens (if i am town ) i'll take pictures....it kind of funny when you see it....... still going on .....


Nothing down the drain ..... I guess the city did'nt get that memo

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Commissioner-Settles-Power-Feud-With-Power-Washer.html
 
Newlook said:
I remember that story David....these two commissioners were constantly at each other!
Click to expand...

Carlos why is no one talking about exemption?

Your letter was good.

You wrote:

Our question for Central Costa County revolves around your current BMP's
and what they mean for the pressure washing industry? It is our hope that
the UAMCC will be afforded an opportunity to comment/review the BMP's that are in place today. Coupled with adopted BMP's, all of Contra Costa County is facing a serious drought problem. The environmental impact that water restrictions will cause can also be viewed as a topic that would
most certainly be brought up with BMP discussions.

Representing the pressure washing industry is certainly the UAMCC's main
plight but we also are just as concerned and determined to ensure that
environmental policies are adhere to by our industry. We must ensure that
whatever 'practices' materialize that there is a "fair and responsible"
balance in which BMP's do not drive legitimate business owners out of
business. This is the proclivities that municipalities nationwide and the pressure washing industry must deal with today.

I'm not sure what you meant by that last sentence.

Why so timid? Why not:​

Representing professional pressure washers around the country who have made it their profession to keep our cities clean we've seen the confusing and often disastrous effects of the lumping together of our industry, which is an environmentally friendly industry, with large scale industries that have contaminated our waters.

It is our goal to show the benefits of working with our industry to form BMP's that allow for a clean, safe environment for our children, not only in our waters, but on the land they walk and play on.

In addition in these times of drought, our industry saves millions of gallons of water by utilizing professional equipment that provides maximum cleaning with the least amount of water use.

These are just a few ways we are already working towards a mutual goal with you.

We are pleased to have the opportunity to show you the benefits our industry provides for your community and welcome the chance to share ideas and expose any misunderstandings that may exist by showing you the environmentally responsible posture our industry has already taken. Also we are eager to take in the knowledge you bring to the table and incorporate it into our best management practices.



We are the good guys. We Clean things. We're not dumping toxic waste into the storm drains Carlos. We can go on the offensive now.
 
Tony Shelton said:
Carlos why is no one talking about exemption?

Your letter was good.

You wrote:

Our question for Central Costa County revolves around your current BMP's
and what they mean for the pressure washing industry? It is our hope that
the UAMCC will be afforded an opportunity to comment/review the BMP's that are in place today. Coupled with adopted BMP's, all of Contra Costa County is facing a serious drought problem. The environmental impact that water restrictions will cause can also be viewed as a topic that would
most certainly be brought up with BMP discussions.

Representing the pressure washing industry is certainly the UAMCC's main
plight but we also are just as concerned and determined to ensure that
environmental policies are adhere to by our industry. We must ensure that
whatever 'practices' materialize that there is a "fair and responsible"
balance in which BMP's do not drive legitimate business owners out of
business. This is the proclivities that municipalities nationwide and the pressure washing industry must deal with today.

I'm not sure what you meant by that last sentence.

Why so timid? Why not:​

Representing professional pressure washers around the country who have made it their profession to keep our cities clean we've seen the confusing and often disastrous effects of the lumping together of our industry, which is an environmentally friendly industry, with large scale industries that have contaminated our waters.

It is our goal to show the benefits of working with our industry to form BMP's that allow for a clean, safe environment for our children, not only in our waters, but on the land they walk and play on.

In addition in these times of drought, our industry saves millions of gallons of water by utilizing professional equipment that provides maximum cleaning with the least amount of water use.

These are just a few ways we are already working towards a mutual goal with you.

We are pleased to have the opportunity to show you the benefits our industry provides for your community and welcome the chance to share ideas and expose any misunderstandings that may exist by showing you the environmentally responsible posture our industry has already taken. Also we are eager to take in the knowledge you bring to the table and incorporate it into our best management practices.



We are the good guys. We Clean things. We're not dumping toxic waste into the storm drains Carlos. We can go on the offensive now.
Click to expand...

Hey Tony...to comment on the last sentence I wrote to this guy. My purpose and reason behind it was to make light of the sentence prior to that. Historically in our industry, BMP's were written and then handed to us with a "here you go" and live with it gesture. These BMP's were set, regardless if it put legitimate business owners on the fence. The "proclivity" or negative thing about this is that today our job is much more difficult than it was when these BMP's were written. Thus meaning this is what we are faced with today!

If we as an industry years ago would have been more proactive in this arena and participated in helping with the writing the BMP's we would hopefully been so far ahead. For whatever the reasons are or were, the industry did not get invited to the party or did not ask to go. Whatever the case was, today the industry has a much more difficult tasks to not only go in and say the BMP's are all wrong but we have to prove to them why.

Now remember, the federal government has empowered each state/county and city to adopt the CWA from a federal standpoint. However the feds have also allowed these states, counties and cities to implement more stringent guidelines. The rule of thumb has always been...you can add more stricter stuff but you can't take away from the Federal CWA.

Here again is another problem because each state/county/city can mold or create their own BMP's based on the federal guidelines as their base. What does this mean for the washer? Well you may have BMP's in one service area and then travel over to the next county (maybe 10 minutes from you) and their BMPs are totally different ~ meaning more stricter.

So, multiply the above scenario to all the different cities and counties nationwide. Tackling this would and is a daunting task for anyone. The UAMCC is no different. I would love to hop on a plane to every city and county that has BMP's in place that are not user friendly to our industry and compel them, show them and ask them to change them so that contractors are not forced to buy thousands and thousands of equipment for reclaim purposes.

I am sure you are familiar with Level I, Level II and Level III municipalities? Level I being the most densely populated areas and Level II a little less populated and so forth and so on.

Recently you have heard from the UAMCC Environmental Consultant, Robert Hinderliter. He has made mentioned several times about the "audit cycle" that all states, cities and counties will be going through. This audit cycle is coming down from the Feds. This audit cycle is nothing new to the municipalities as they have been made aware of this audit for a very long time but never really paid attention to it...except now. The municipalities must meet an array of requirements or satisfy this audit so that their revenue stream will stay in place. This is why we in the industry are now seeing interest from cities such as Charlotte, NC and counties such as Mecklenburg and Contra Costa County. These folks want to get their policies/BMP's in place early so that their revenue stream is not hampered or compromised. Another advantage for any city/county to do this now also affords them to make any corrections to a unfavorable audit before that magical deadline. Same thing when one gets audited by the IRS - you are giving a period of time to 'correct'. Same rule applies here with the federal audit. Over the next year or so we can expect more and more cities/counties to contact organizations such as UAMCC, PWNA and CETA. This is just the beginning.

I have discussed this with Robert and my transition team in great detail. The UAMCC is NOT equipped nor financially solvent to hit every single city and county in the U.S. However, we have picked up on a trend with the Level I, Level II and Level III jurisdictions. Historically we have found that Level II and Level III municipalities follow what Level I's enact regarding BMP's.

If someone were to ask me how the UAMCC would go about tackling the BMP problem facing our industry. As I have instructed Robert a while back, I will also convey to you that hitting the Level I bodies are our best shot. You may get in the front door with Level II's and Level III's but I am afraid at the end of the day they will most likely side with what the Level I BMP's are, no matter how compelling your argument is. This is why Ron raised the the concern about the BMP's in Atlanta. Atlanta is a Level I. Very important not only to that city but more importantly to the counties nearby. It is my understanding that the BMP's were adopted with not so favorable points about washers. (I have not read the Atlanta BMP's but do have a call into them). If it is true that Atlanta has very strict BMP's then it would be logical and based on historical data that surrounding Level II's and Level III's will adopt theirs. This would not be good for the pressure washer.

I know I am getting away from your original question Tony but I felt it was high time to shed some light on this matter. It is my hope that now some will see that there is some 'logic and process' that I have considered and evaluated relating to this issue.

It is a very difficult subject that we today are dealing with. The CWA and the pressure washing industry has tip toed around each other for many years. I remember speaking with Ron about this ohhh...maybe 5-7 years ago. It was a problem then and it is a problem now. However, I will not let the UAMCC be the blame of something that should have been dealt with responsibly and correctly years ago. The UAMCC is a little over a 100 days old. In that short of time I trust we have at least shown that we are doing our best and trying to address what we can. Myself and the transition team take on a lot...a lot that most don't see. I am averaging 14-16 hour days here at UAMCC headquarters. Not complaining just stating a fact. Believe me, I read these posts and seriously evaluate not only what you say but also others.

I could go on-and on for another two pages of what the BMP's mean and the logical strategy that I would recommend. Maybe if you come to Orlando we could compare notes.

Hope this helps

**I am sure there are tons of spelling errors in my post**
 
Carlos I'm not blaming the UAMCC for the past. It would be good to see them take an offensive stance for the future though. Like I said, this is a golden opportunity for the UAMCC.

The Fort Worth BMPs look good, but they still strap the PW contractor with pump requirements to divert to the sewer if you use nothing but hot water adding more air pollution (via pumps/generators/vacuums, etc) unnecessarily when simple gravity filtration is sufficient.

Don't be fooled, tighter emission controls are looming now.

An offensive stance shooting for exemption for plaza, sidewalk and other similar cleaning is not out of our reach.

I am not "anti" Uamcc. I am pro "PW Contractor" and as you stated, previous BMP's have been "anti" PW Contractor.

Thanks Carlos.
 
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