City violating CWA??

Big Mike

Big Mike

Member
This might be lengthy, but I thought it might be a worthwhile post. I was informed a couple of days ago, by my wife, that there were several people with safety vests power washing sidewalks in downtown Minneapolis. Of course this piqued my interest, because we washed sidewalks downtown for several years, until this year. Mysteriously, we were dropped by all of our commercial clients in the downtown district this spring, HMMMMMM. Anyway, I did some research and here's the press release:


Downtown Minneapolis takes a big step toward becoming cleaner, greener and safer

The Minneapolis City Council and Mayor R.T. Rybak unanimously approved the creation of the Downtown Business Improvement District Special Service District on Friday, Dec. 12. Commonly known as the Downtown Improvement District (DID), it is designed to make Downtown a better place for residents, businesses, visitors, and workers. Through the DID, Downtown property owners will contribute an estimated $6.5 million a year to make Downtown cleaner, greener, safer and better.

For many years, the downtown business community and the City have discussed the idea of creating the DID to further enhance the vitality of downtown Minneapolis. The Minneapolis Downtown Council championed the effort to gather support among the business community for the new district, successfully petitioning commercial property owners to agree to pay additional service charges as an investment in Downtown. By agreeing to contribute more, especially in this challenging economy, business leaders reaffirmed their commitment to, and confidence in, Downtown Minneapolis as the region’s premier business district.

The DID is a public/private partnership that will provide enhanced services beginning in 2009 to the Downtown area above and beyond what would normally be provided by a City, or what is currently done as basic City services. Some of those services include enhanced sidewalk cleaning, landscaping installation and maintenance, repair and maintenance of enhanced streetscape fixtures, and retail recruitment activities and programs. Other services will include creating new Safety Ambassadors for Downtown, as well as providing security coordination between the public and private sectors.

The 120-block district is bounded roughly by 2nd Avenue North, 2nd Street South, Chicago Avenue, and various streets along the southern edge of Downtown. The area includes approximately 650 assessable properties that will contribute to the enhanced services annually. Residential properties that are within the district cannot be assessed by law, but are able to opt in if they choose to do so.

The City ordinance that creates the DID calls for the City to enter into a contract with a non-profit organization that will provide all services within the DID. The organization, yet to be created, will be an affiliate or subsidiary of the Downtown Council that will be governed by a management board of approximately 20 members including property owners, business owners, and others who represent organizations within the DID. The City will oversee the contract as well as review and approve the proposed annual operating plan and budget for the DID. All costs for services will be recovered by annual service charges to the DID.

Dec. 12, 2008
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Now, normally I wouldn't care if a competitor was violating, I would just let them get caught on their own, but this was different. Now the City was taking money out of my pocket, and that just seemed unfair. Well, I have some contacts at the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, and made a call to the enforcement division. I explained that I owned a PW company, and have a substantial investment in recovery equipment, and follow EPA guidelines carefully. I asked why I had to follow the CWA and not the City? Lets just say they were VERY interested in this program, and were sending an investigator over as soon as we hung up. I wonder what will happen???? I'll keep you all informed of any developments....

So, was I right or wrong? What would you have done??
 
That is very interesting.

Did you see them letting the water go into the storm drains?

In your city, do the storm drains go out to the creeks, lakes, rivers, etc.... or to the city Sanitary Sewer Department? This is important.

If the drains go to the Sanitary Sewer Department to be treated then it might be ok but if they do go out to the creeks, lakes, rivers, etc... then it would not be right.

Without knowing the details, contract, if they have a discharge permit, where the water ends up, etc... hard to know what is really going on.
 
Chris,
As I stated in the beginning of my post, I washed sidewalks in the City for several years prior, and recovery is required. Minneapolis sits on the banks of the Mississippi River and all storm drains in downtown go directly into it. I've been watched closely for the last 4 years while washing them, and never received a violation. I get PREMIUM square footage prices for the work, but it is a pain in the rear as well. These folks had no recovery whatsoever, and they were doing shoddy work to boot. No gum removal either, as far as I could see. I'm going back this afternoon to see if they damaged the concrete. It appeared to me that they were using a narrow degree tip with cold water, and wand only cleaning.
 
Big Mike said:
Chris,
As I stated in the beginning of my post, I washed sidewalks in the City for several years prior, and recovery is required. Minneapolis sits on the banks of the Mississippi River and all storm drains in downtown go directly into it. I've been watched closely for the last 4 years while washing them, and never received a violation. I get PREMIUM square footage prices for the work, but it is a pain in the rear as well. These folks had no recovery whatsoever, and they were doing shoddy work to boot. No gum removal either, as far as I could see. I'm going back this afternoon to see if they damaged the concrete. It appeared to me that they were using a narrow degree tip with cold water, and wand only cleaning.
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I would have gathered PHOTOs before I approached the pollution agency. This makes your case against them much stronger.
 
revolve77 said:
I would have gathered PHOTOs before I approached the pollution agency. This makes your case against them much stronger.
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If they are, in fact, damaging the concrete it's pretty hard to make your case without photos. It would be helpful if you had photo's from when you did the work, and photo's (or some other proof) of them actually damaging the concrete.

As Ron pointed out at the Tampa RT, you don't want accuse someone of doing shoddy work, or causing damage, without proof.
 
Not accusing anyone of shoddy work, just breaking Federal law. Also, I don't have a "case" against them, I just want them to do the work properly. If their management is approached by the pollution control agency, and they fail to heed the warning, they'll get fined.

As for damaging concrete, I do have pictures of my work, and I haven't witnessed them cleaning any sidewalks that we maintained yet. Just gathering info at this point.
 
involving the local health district might not be a bad idea as well.
 
The city with the strictest CWA enforcement in my are does the same thing. I may go out there one night, and take some pictures. It could be interesting, since I have contacts in their Storm water department.
 
That sounds about right, when city officials get involved they make rules that only apply to them. Sounds like someones brother-in-law got the job and the exemption.
 
They did a similar thing here in South Bend and Chicago. The funny part the City pays for a "developement expert" to come in typically from out of state. They then pay them millions to beautify the city. We not only lost work because of this the outside company charged the city $ 25,000 for an open trailer with a 12v 5gpm @ 3000psi skid, water tank and one reel. Causing us to loose the work and a sale. Say a Thank You to Big Government giving it to the small business man again. I actually had a hard time believing the $ 800.00 government hammer until I heard what they paid for their pressure washing system.
 
It will all go under the table!
 
Cities have an ENORMOUS problem right now..
they have been levying fines for years, in some cases,
without being compliant themselves..
Some of the biggest cities in the country.
It is Illegal to impose a fine, without being equally compliant..
and EVEY time you heard them say they "wrote themselves an exemption"..
was highly illegal.
DON'T leave home without a camera.. ever again.. and share with me.
The cities have ignored the technology long enough.
You all with the equipment, will prosper. Eh?
 
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