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  1. #1
    Member Professor with Tenure Chris Tharpe's Avatar
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    13hp engine and Ts-2021

    I know this has been discussed however I can not find the good threads covering it.


    Whats the correct formula for finding the pressure capabilities of a ts-2021 with being run off of a 13hp engine. will the flow be lower than spec or will just the pressure be below spec?
    Mobile Wash Pros
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  2. #2
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    Only the pressure is compromised. The flow stays the same.

    The formula is HP * 1100 = x Then divide that by GPM. The answer is the psi you'll acquire.

    For ex. 13 x 1100 = 143000 so 143000/5.5 = 2600

    I run the same setup, only mine is direct drive.
    Chad Johnson
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  3. #3
    Griffs Services PowerWash 2000 PLUS POSTER 810f250's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson View Post
    Only the pressure is compromised. The flow stays the same.

    The formula is HP * 1100 = x Then divide that by GPM. The answer is the psi you'll acquire.

    For ex. 13 x 1100 = 143000 so 143000/5.5 = 2600

    I run the same setup, only mine is direct drive.
    That is what I know most of the industry uses for gasoline engines too.


    Some pressure washer manufacturers run different gas engines a little beyond that range (harder), because they say that the engine manufacturer approved it and will warrant the engine.

    (I have also heard that Kohler gas engines have higher torque for the same max horse power engines as Honda.)

    Interesting that general pump is more conservative on there HP formula, I have seen one of their formulas they do not divide by 1100, they recommend (gpm x psi )/973.33 and they have another formula on their website that shows electric HP x 1.8 for gas HP requirement.

    Side note:
    Engine manufacturers HP is peak, at max rpm without any accessories, and that is not proved on every engine produced, it is theoretical and taken on a production sample

    I have even seen pump specs for particular rpm, they mention in the fine print it is calculated and maybe as low as 95% of the quoted output volume.


    Chris looking to build a rinsing machine?


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  4. #4
    Member Professor with Tenure
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    I ran 13HP Chondas on our belt drives. They did a good job for residential work. When we added commercial concrete cleaning I swapped all but 1 belt drive over to 16hp the remaining 13hp will be swapped out in the winter. Just that 3hp makes a big difference with a surface cleaner. But that's not having to turn a generator.

  5. #5
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    The Landa that was on my truck is now on Chris's trailer and I took the one he bought used.

    It was a 11 hp Honda with the TS1011 pump.

    I had some motor problems and ended up buying a harbor freight (Lifan) 11 hp motor over the counter with the 2 yr no questions asked return policy so I can just run and get one if it ever breaks down.

    Russ Johnson sent me a new pulley and I think I am getting about 5.5 gpm out of it now @ 1500 psi. (1100 psi is all I usually use for what I do)

    But, surprisingly, I'm finding that this unit works pretty well in most cases. Here is a dumpster I did using the wand and surface cleaner @ 5.5/1500 190 degrees - to help Chris out (because he was running late)

    Don't give me any grief about the results, I don't normally do this. And anyway, the manager said that our cleaning was the best she has ever seen and called all 8 of the other locations by the end of the day to recommend us. AND parts of it were still wet when the after pic was taken.

    Show me some love....

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  6. #6
    Moderator 11000 PLUS POSTER Christopher's Avatar
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    Looks good Tony.

    I think the only way it would look better is with 3500 degrees and that is questionable. hahahahaha

  7. #7
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christopher View Post
    looks good tony.

    I think the only way it would look better is with 3500 degrees and that is questionable. Hahahahaha

    more heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!
    Sonitx 845 S. Kenny Way Las Vegas, NV 89107 702-358-7477 Air Filter Service - Coil Cleaning - 2 month Payback


  8. #8
    2000 PLUS POSTER Squirtgun's Avatar
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    Tony always remember it's a pressure washing wand,not a magic wand.

    Big improvement and contrary to what JG might say 1.1million btu wouldn't have done any better.
    Karvonen's Pro Clean
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  9. #9
    Member Senior Undergraduate Big Mike's Avatar
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    Big improvement and contrary to what JG might say 1.1million btu wouldn't have done any better.
    Right on!!

  10. #10
    Equipment Sales Sophomore Undergraduate
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    A couple of interesting notes

    First - you may find this interesting. The TS2021 that General Pump the U.S. arm of InterPump/Italy rates the TS2021 at 3500 PSI. InterPump the manufacturer rates the pump at 2900 PSI.

    Second - you will always be able to get more bang for your buck with a gear drive pump. There is a HP loss when using belts.

    TS2021? Great pump and the 5.6 @ 2500/2600 PSI is an awesome set-up. The 13 Honda is an excellent engine but as someone else said the Kohler will give you more muscle/torque overall.

    Kohler just came out with their new 7 hp engine. We are presently using it on our Cyclone system. It carry’s a 3 year parts and labor warranty. They will be coming out with their new 9 HP engine and their new 14 HP engine in the next few months. If you can wait you will find both to be an excellent choice for the 'long run.'

    On our 18 - 30 HP Kohlers we use a Kohler electronic 'idle down' that works flawlessly. Simply release the trigger and the engine returns to idle. The calculations show that it you use this 'idle down' equipped engine 6 days a week that in one year the gas savings alone would be over $2500.00. The nice thing is that they way we purchase our units you will be able to obtain one of these for less that what you would pay for the same Kohler (less the idle-down) somewhere else.

    Another note about the TS2021(B) that is advertised. Although it is the same identical pump as the TS2021 except a brass head instead of a nickel plated head, General Pump will not warranty this pump. We have already had them refuse one pump that had a bad connecting rod. To General Pump there is no such thing as a TS2020B
    John Allison
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    Mimicking the accomplishments of others will only make you weak. Strength comes from turning the impossible into reality. Be original and you will flourish share originality and our industry will flourish. – John A

  11. #11
    Griffs Services PowerWash 2000 PLUS POSTER 810f250's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post
    First - you may find this interesting. The TS2021 that General Pump the U.S. arm of InterPump/Italy rates the TS2021 at 3500 PSI. InterPump the manufacturer rates the pump at 2900 PSI.

    Second - you will always be able to get more bang for your buck with a gear drive pump. There is a HP loss when using belts.

    TS2021? Great pump and the 5.6 @ 2500/2600 PSI is an awesome set-up. The 13 Honda is an excellent engine but as someone else said the Kohler will give you more muscle/torque overall.

    Kohler just came out with their new 7 hp engine. We are presently using it on our Cyclone system. It carry’s a 3 year parts and labor warranty. They will be coming out with their new 9 HP engine and their new 14 HP engine in the next few months. If you can wait you will find both to be an excellent choice for the 'long run.'

    On our 18 - 30 HP Kohlers we use a Kohler electronic 'idle down' that works flawlessly. Simply release the trigger and the engine returns to idle. The calculations show that it you use this 'idle down' equipped engine 6 days a week that in one year the gas savings alone would be over $2500.00. The nice thing is that they way we purchase our units you will be able to obtain one of these for less that what you would pay for the same Kohler (less the idle-down) somewhere else.

    Another note about the TS2021(B) that is advertised. Although it is the same identical pump as the TS2021 except a brass head instead of a nickel plated head, General Pump will not warranty this pump. We have already had them refuse one pump that had a bad connecting rod. To General Pump there is no such thing as a TS2020B
    I looked over the pump specs on interpump and I see the pressure ratings 2900 psi.
    Why would they rate it higher in the US?


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  12. #12
    Equipment Sales Sophomore Undergraduate
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    Probably because

    Probably because everyone - including myself - hammered away at GP for years to bring something new to the industry in the way of higher pressures. Back then we always had more engine HP than we had pump PSI available. It is possible that since InterPump did not have anything that could satisfy the 18 HP range that GP increased the TS2021 rating to accommodate the situation.

    All pump manufacturers have always seemed to rated their products very conservatively with the TS2021 being, to my knowledge, one of the few items in the industry that is rated higher than originally intended.

    Will the TS2021 handle the extra pressure? Absolutely. It has been doing so for years so when asked is it over rated my opinion is no. If anything the InterPump spec. of 2900 is under rated.
    John Allison
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    Mimicking the accomplishments of others will only make you weak. Strength comes from turning the impossible into reality. Be original and you will flourish share originality and our industry will flourish. – John A

  13. #13
    2000 PLUS POSTER Squirtgun's Avatar
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    I recently had to replace the nickle plated head on my Interpump ws202(?) because of a crack inside the head.I'm guessing the TS2021 I had in the shop with the brass head isn't really a true TS2021,but I was able to use that head to get the IP pump fixed and get our rig back on the job.

    John what is the warranty on the nickle head?
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  14. #14
    Griffs Services PowerWash 2000 PLUS POSTER 810f250's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post
    First - you may find this interesting. The TS2021 that General Pump the U.S. arm of InterPump/Italy rates the TS2021 at 3500 PSI. InterPump the manufacturer rates the pump at 2900 PSI.

    Second - you will always be able to get more bang for your buck with a gear drive pump. There is a HP loss when using belts.

    TS2021? Great pump and the 5.6 @ 2500/2600 PSI is an awesome set-up. The 13 Honda is an excellent engine but as someone else said the Kohler will give you more muscle/torque overall.

    Kohler just came out with their new 7 hp engine. We are presently using it on our Cyclone system. It carry’s a 3 year parts and labor warranty. They will be coming out with their new 9 HP engine and their new 14 HP engine in the next few months. If you can wait you will find both to be an excellent choice for the 'long run.'

    On our 18 - 30 HP Kohlers we use a Kohler electronic 'idle down' that works flawlessly. Simply release the trigger and the engine returns to idle. The calculations show that it you use this 'idle down' equipped engine 6 days a week that in one year the gas savings alone would be over $2500.00. The nice thing is that they way we purchase our units you will be able to obtain one of these for less that what you would pay for the same Kohler (less the idle-down) somewhere else.

    Another note about the TS2021(B) that is advertised. Although it is the same identical pump as the TS2021 except a brass head instead of a nickel plated head, General Pump will not warranty this pump. We have already had them refuse one pump that had a bad connecting rod. To General Pump there is no such thing as a TS2020B


    I also looked over the electronic idle option that Kohlerengines.com, very neat, how do you activate it , flow switch?




    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post
    Probably because everyone - including myself - hammered away at GP for years to bring something new to the industry in the way of higher pressures. Back then we always had more engine HP than we had pump PSI available. It is possible that since InterPump did not have anything that could satisfy the 18 HP range that GP increased the TS2021 rating to accommodate the situation.

    All pump manufacturers have always seemed to rated their products very conservatively with the TS2021 being, to my knowledge, one of the few items in the industry that is rated higher than originally intended.

    Will the TS2021 handle the extra pressure? Absolutely. It has been doing so for years so when asked is it over rated my opinion is no. If anything the InterPump spec. of 2900 is under rated.
    Mr Homer, I would sure like to pick your brain for couple hours....lol

    Wow, so your saying that all the internals are the exactly the same for the ts2021?

    Question about my current pump...........

    General pump specs:
    TSF 2019...1450rpm...6.3gpm...3600psi
    TSF 2019...1750rpm...7.5gpm...3600psi
    TSF 2021...1450rpm...7.0gpm...3600psi
    TSF 2021...1750rpm...8.5gpm...3600psi
    TSF 2219...1450rpm...7.7gpm...3000psi
    TSF 2219...1750rpm...9.3gpm...3000psi
    TSF 2221...1450rpm...8.5gpm...3000psi
    TSF 2221...1750rpm...10.2gpm...3000psi


    INterpump Specs:

    ModelVolume
    L/min


    Volume
    GPM (usa)


    Pressure
    Bar


    Pressure
    psi


    r.p.m.



    Required
    hp


    Weight
    kg


    Dimensions
    mm


    Notes



    Power
    kW


    Note
    W203030.007.92200.002900.001450.0015.0018.50341x249x16011.02
    W203535.009.25200.002900.001450.0018.0018.50341x249x16013.23
    W214141.0010.83210.003045.001450.0022.0018.50341x249x16016.17
    W252525.006.60250.003600.001450.0018.0018.50341x249x16013.23

    ModelVolume
    L/min


    Volume
    GPM (usa)


    Pressure
    Bar


    Pressure
    psi


    r.p.m.



    Required
    hp


    Weight
    kg


    Dimensions
    mm


    Notes



    Power
    kW


    Note
    T175050.0013.20172.002500.001750.0022.0018.50341x249x16016.17
    T204040.0010.56200.002900.001750.0021.0018.50341x249x16015.44
    T253030.007.92250.003600.001750.0020.0018.50341x249x16014.70
    T253535.009.25250.003600.001750.0022.0018.50341x249x16016.17



    Which is the general's TSF2021 on the interpump chart?

    Looks like they under rated the gpm's in the US market.

    So how much does a US market TSF 2021 really output @1450 and 1750rpm?

    Looks like interpump's W2030/T2535 might be the US market TSF2021.

    You think that is the scenario?


    Nigel Griffith
    Owner
    Griff's Services @ Power Washing
    301-412-0174 (M)

  15. #15
    Member Honorary Professor Danny Bates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post
    On our 18 - 30 HP Kohlers we use a Kohler electronic 'idle down' that works flawlessly. Simply release the trigger and the engine returns to idle. The calculations show that it you use this 'idle down' equipped engine 6 days a week that in one year the gas savings alone would be over $2500.00. The nice thing is that they way we purchase our units you will be able to obtain one of these for less that what you would pay for the same Kohler (less the idle-down) somewhere else.
    Will the idle down system be offerd as a retro fit kit? I have a 25hp Kohler and would love to have it on there.

  16. #16
    Member Senior Undergraduate PWProducts's Avatar
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    General Pump Warranty

    You asked about the warranty for the manifold? Please see the link posted below:

    http://generalpump.com/PDFs/SALES%20...og-CD-2008.pdf

    Should you have any questions regarding the warranty by any other manufacturer, give me a call or send an email.

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    Call us anytime for FREE Technical Assistance with your Pressure Washing Equipment

    NEED IT FAST???? CALL OR EMAIL LORI


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  17. #17
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Tharpe View Post
    I know this has been discussed however I can not find the good threads covering it.


    Whats the correct formula for finding the pressure capabilities of a ts-2021 with being run off of a 13hp engine. will the flow be lower than spec or will just the pressure be below spec?
    I say 2000 psi 4 gallons, apparently I'm wrong
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    Pressure Washing services.







  18. #18
    Professors Honorary Professor apple's Avatar
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    This is something ive really been giving some thought to.

    Ive got a 4gpm hot whitco skid on my trailer as backup. It takes up a ton of space on my trailer. The only time its ran is on larger jobs and only then to soap. I have turned the heat on once since the first of march. This machine is 10 years old. The engine has been completely rebuilt but the pump is wore smooth out.

    Ive been thinking on a direction to go with this thing. Ive thought about pulling the actuall engine and pump mount off of the skid just so I can stop toting that extra dead weight. Or coupling the engine with a larger pump.

    One question I have is if upgrading to a 5.5 pump why not go all the way to an 8? I know there will be a to of psi loss but as a large vinyl washing machine how would it perform compared to my 8 @3000?
    Chris Apple, Arkansas Pro Wash
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