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  1. #41
    Member Junior Undergraduate PeakOfPerfection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Dubbs View Post
    I believe In staying safe and using proper equipment. I don't however believe in charging outright to the customer for something you should already have in your tool arsenal to do the job. At least if the job is $1000, just make it $1070 and that's that.

    We use cougar paw shoes, but I don't tell my customer that and charge them $125 and then leave them there.


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    I have a different perspective on it. We are installing something on the client's structure that is permanent, can be used multiple times and by many contractors. Cougar Paws...not so much. We don't directly charge them for our lines or Petzl harnesses, but we don't leave them installed on the roof either. The materials and labor to install the anchors have value and the anchors are left there for peace of mind. We've not only never had a single objection to the cost, but we get a lot of jobs *because* we install them. We use it as a marketing tool to point out the fact that we do operate safely....harnesses, safety anchors, respirators, etc. it is one more thing which sets you apart from the competition.

    We just did a roof cleaning job yesterday for a client who was thrilled to have the anchors installed because she is having solar panels put in in a few weeks and the solar company doesn't install them. She saw it as added value.
    Kevin Enderle
    Peak of Perfection Roof Cleaning
    Bellingham, WA
    360-831-9494

    www.deadmoss.com
    Asphalt and Cedar Shake Roof Cleaning.

    Serving Whatcom, Skagit, Island, Snohomish and King Counties including Bellingham, Ferndale, Lynden, Sudden Valley, Mount Vernon, Seattle and Surrounding Areas.
    Safe. Non Pressure. Premier RCIA Member.

    THE PUMP MAN.
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  • #42
    Roof Cleaning Instructor 3000 PLUS POSTER Apple Roof Cleaning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeakOfPerfection View Post
    I have a different perspective on it. We are installing something on the client's structure that is permanent, can be used multiple times and by many contractors. Cougar Paws...not so much. We don't directly charge them for our lines or Petzl harnesses, but we don't leave them installed on the roof either. The materials and labor to install the anchors have value and the anchors are left there for peace of mind. We've not only never had a single objection to the cost, but we get a lot of jobs *because* we install them. We use it as a marketing tool to point out the fact that we do operate safely....harnesses, safety anchors, respirators, etc. it is one more thing which sets you apart from the competition.

    We just did a roof cleaning job yesterday for a client who was thrilled to have the anchors installed because she is having solar panels put in in a few weeks and the solar company doesn't install them. She saw it as added value.
    Chris Dubbs has some good points, and so does Kevin here. But what is not understood by many is this. Peak Of Perfection is a Pacific Northwest based roof cleaning and Moss Removal company based in Bellingham Washington, just north of Seattle.
    Unless you are from, or have lived in this area, you simply have no idea how bad the Moss problem is, or how steep the roofs are.
    Cougar Paws are great, but they will not keep you from busting your ass on a Moss Infested roof.

  • #43
    Member Graduate Student Chris Dubbs's Avatar
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    Proving once again, that it's different wherever you go. Lol


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  • #44
    Roof Cleaning Instructor 3000 PLUS POSTER Apple Roof Cleaning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Dubbs View Post
    Proving once again, that it's different wherever you go. Lol


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    It sure is Chris
    This is one reason there are so many different opinions on how to clean roofs. One guy on the Internet in Pennsylvania may brag "I never rinse any roofs I clean", but that kind of blanket statement will get you killed here in Tampa, on tile roofs w/o any gutters.
    Plus, a lot of the free "information" on the Internet can be simply some keyboard cowboy w/o much real roof cleaning experience, playing the role of a Parrot (repeating what he has heard), in an attempt to "look cool".
    LOL, Stevie Wonder, driving Ray Charles around.

  • #45
    Member Senior Undergraduate wjs0311's Avatar
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    I'll be picking up a pair of cougar paws tomorrow. I have a stepish roof on Friday that I am not sure If I can shoot from a ladder and have been wanting to get a pair for awhile.

  • #46
    Member Graduate Student Chris Dubbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjs0311 View Post
    I'll be picking up a pair of cougar paws tomorrow. I have a stepish roof on Friday that I am not sure If I can shoot from a ladder and have been wanting to get a pair for awhile.
    They doubled my confidence and they work great. But still be careful.


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  • #47
    Member Professor with Tenure Rapid HotClean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple Roof Cleaning View Post
    LOL, Stevie Wonder, driving Ray Charles around.
    Chris, you're lucky those guys didn't see that! lol

  • #48
    Member Graduate Student Chris Dubbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapid HotClean View Post
    Chris, you're lucky those guys didn't see that! lol
    Hey, if it's ok with Helen Keller, it's ok with me. ;-)


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  • #49
    Member Junior Undergraduate PeakOfPerfection's Avatar
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    Yeah...we have some ridiculously steep roofs around here and moss? Official Washington State Plant. That being said, I insist on doing permanent anchors for anything steep or anything over 1 story where your feet need to hit the roof. We can argue about rinsing and mixes and what are the best pumps (1" AODD OBVIOUSLY!), but with safety, there IS no argument. First off, it IS the law. OSHA to be exact. If you get inspected and you don't have fall arrest gear, you will be fined...big. Second, it is just a really really good idea. Once you lose traction and go over or trip, even on a moderate pitch roof, chances are pretty good you are going over the edge and even if it is one story, it can still kill you. If you step on a shingle that is not nailed in and it slips out from under you (it WILL happen at some point and that is perhaps one of the scariest feelings there is), or you hit a particularly slippery patch of granules...or you get distracted and become unbalanced...you can go off the roof. Once you start to go over, at that point, Physics takes over and somebody is very likely to get badly hurt...or worse, Die. If it is just me up on a roof, then as the business owner, I can make the choice to be stupid, not have fall protection and risk the fine...though one look at my daughter always convinces me otherwise. But the minute you send an employee up there, the game changes. You have somebody else's life in your hands and that entails a degree of responsibility and liability. I had had an employee whose life was saved by his fall arrest equipment. He tripped on a hose on a moderate pitch two story. His fall arrest equipment hooked into a permanent safety anchor he had installed not 20 minutes before caught him before he went over the edge. He complained about using the harness and grumbled about my insistance before that incident. Afterwords, he never complained again.

    From a BUSINESS and liability standpoint, God forbid an employee falls off a roof without proper fall protection and is seriously injured or dies. Should that happen, aside from being utterly devastated, you as the business owner would be liable and the fact they were on a roof without fall arrest equipment...or at the minimum a firmly set company safety policy which requires it...this means you lose in court. Either keep them off the roof, or use proper fall arrest. There really shouldn't be anything in-between. My policy is...1 story, use the pipe anchor or set an anchor. Two stories or higher and you need to put a foot on that roof...install permanent anchors. Period.

    The last thing I EVER want to see is a story on one of these forums about somebody who dies for such a stupid reason as cleaning a freaking roof. Think about it guys.
    Kevin Enderle
    Peak of Perfection Roof Cleaning
    Bellingham, WA
    360-831-9494

    www.deadmoss.com
    Asphalt and Cedar Shake Roof Cleaning.

    Serving Whatcom, Skagit, Island, Snohomish and King Counties including Bellingham, Ferndale, Lynden, Sudden Valley, Mount Vernon, Seattle and Surrounding Areas.
    Safe. Non Pressure. Premier RCIA Member.

    THE PUMP MAN.
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  • #50
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    It is always best to work with your local state certification and compliance agency for approved techniques. It will help you with L and I, with licensing, and with law suits. Roof cleaning is a dangerous business if not done right as we all know.

    Tony
    www.prolongroofcare.com

  • #51
    Member Junior Undergraduate PeakOfPerfection's Avatar
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    One other thing to watch...the SH seems to tear up the Cougar Paws soles pretty rapidly. Cougar Paws are also more water/chem RESISTANT, than proof. With water, no big deal. With high percentage SH on a large job...potential chem burn problems. That is why we bought one pair and never used them again.
    Kevin Enderle
    Peak of Perfection Roof Cleaning
    Bellingham, WA
    360-831-9494

    www.deadmoss.com
    Asphalt and Cedar Shake Roof Cleaning.

    Serving Whatcom, Skagit, Island, Snohomish and King Counties including Bellingham, Ferndale, Lynden, Sudden Valley, Mount Vernon, Seattle and Surrounding Areas.
    Safe. Non Pressure. Premier RCIA Member.

    THE PUMP MAN.
    SoftWashing Pump Systems for the Professional Cleaning Contractor
    www.cleaningpumps.com

  • #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cleaner View Post
    Attachment 18264Attachment 18265Attachment 18266Attachment 18267Attachment 18268


    How about just tieing off from the ground? This way if and when it let's go you dont do any damage to yourself or the home?
    Call me I can sell you a rope.

    has anyone tried this?.. it actually seems like it could be a great idea on a basic roof.

    also, how long are your ropes lasting with the constant contact of SH? what type of rope are you using?

  • #53
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    This is a great thread guys and finally good to see some people that understand about PacNW challenges. Just starting out myself this is very good info to have and learn about. Thank you.

    Don Charpilloz
    Capitol Pro Wash LLC
    Salem, OR
    503.856.6463

  • #54
    Member Freshman Undergraduate Saltstorm's Avatar
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    Questions Surrounding Pitched Roof Fall Protection

    I have been reading all of your posts and I can tell that there is a real effort going on to establish a tangible plan to provide for fall protection for cleaning pitched roofing systems. My name is Kevin Kramer and I am the Owner and Program Director of Reality Rope Access LLC AND coincidently the lead chair holder regarding “Pitched Roof Structure Access” for SPRAT’s (Society for Professional Rope Access Technicians) Committee onBuildings and Urban Development.
    -
    May Be I can Assist In Answering Some of Your Questions:
    Question # 1 What is OSHA Regulation for fall protection while working on pitched roofing structures?:
    This is a very broad question with many possible answers depending what and who you apply it to that begins with no regulations what-so-ever for those of you who provide the labor for your own businesses (OSHA regulations are reserved for the workplace safety regarding employees but has nothing to do with the fall risk a business owner exposes their selves to).
    OSHA regulations for anchor strength depends on what kind of fall protection you are using:
    Personal Fall ArrestSystems – those which allow a worker enough slack to step over a leading edge where they could fall up to 6ft (but no more) require 5000lb anchors.
    Work PositioningSystems – which allow a worker to free-fall up to 2ft (but no more) require 3000lb anchors.
    Fall RestraintSystems – rope or lanyard based systems that are set up in such a way as to prevent a leading edge fall all-together (i.e. prevent a worker from access over a leading edge) require 1000 lb anchors.
    Question # 2 Your plumbing jack / pipe anchor looks real handy BUT… How do you protect the guy who sets it in place from a fall?:
    With a First Man UpFall Protection System – A system of fall protection that can be set-up /put in place by a worker, without any exposure to the risk of a fall. These systems include a projectile, a tag line for pulling ropes into place and a suitable anchor (either structural or weight based / portable). Such a system is available and can be used on structures that are 10+ stories tall.
    Question # 3 Where can I find a self-trailing rope grab?:
    NO SUCH TOOL EXISTS! Please understand that YES there is such a tool called a self-trailing rope grab (e.g. the Kong “Back-Up” or theYates “Rocker”) But No Rope Grab (neither self-trailing type nor ascending type) will "Self Trail" as they all require a great deal of hand manipulation.
    FURTHERMORE.
    ROPE GRABS ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!!! Especially in the hands of an untrained professional and should NEVER be used alone as a fall protection device. Rope grabs are easily defeated by human hands due to a condition known as “Panic Grip”
    “Panic Grip” - the human reflex type tendency to counter the feelings of lost control experienced in the early stages of a fall by indiscriminately grabbing and holding onto objectswithin their immediate reach.
    For this reason alone, many if not most rope access training companies refuse to use them. If you choose to use one then I would suggest attaching them to a Y-Lanyard with a Jumar / Hand-held ascender.
    Y Lanyard (1).JPG
    It is important to understand that true Rope Access is a relatively new phenomenon in the fall protection theatre, SO new in fact that it is still not listed in OSHA 1926.500 as a valid form of fall protection (even though it is now OSHA approved under a variance) Real Pitched Roof Rope Access training programs that have the backing of the world-wide Rope Access community do exist now and they are worth millions to those who cannot use standard forms of fall protection or scaffolding to complete their work.
    Last edited by Saltstorm; 12-22-2014 at 04:17 AM.

  • #55
    Member Senior Undergraduate Connor's Avatar
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    Where can I buy the roof anchor?
    Connor Lang
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  • #56
    Member Honorary Professor AC Lockyer's Avatar
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    Roof Anchor - Softwash Systems

    Quote Originally Posted by Connor View Post
    Where can I buy the roof anchor?

    We sell them on our website here: http://softwashsystems.com/page_softwash-equipment.html
    at the very bottom of the equipment page.

    They sell for $99 + shipping and are 3 ft in length. There is a small video of it in use on the above website page as well.

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    AC Lockyer

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  • #57
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Scott Davis isn't in business
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  • #58
    Roof Cleaning Instructor 3000 PLUS POSTER Apple Roof Cleaning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Musgraves View Post
    Scott Davis isn't in business
    Wow, that's news to me. It seemed like Scott has been around all things roof cleaning for quite awhile. I hope he is successful in whatever he is doing for a living these days.

  • #59
    Member Graduate Student Art Oliveri's Avatar
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    He was doing pool cleaning, I think he just sold that business. He's on FB every once in a while
    Art Oliveri
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  • #60
    Member 7000 PLUS POSTER Doug Rucker's Avatar
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    Pretty sure he's still doing pools...he posts picture on IG all the time of pool restorations
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