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View Poll Results: Should you turn your Competition In?

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  • YES

    25 16.13%
  • NO

    130 83.87%
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  1. #81
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Spence View Post
    I dont care!We has the time to care anyway?

    Oh wait, the ones that have no life and no real business, the ones that steal gloves! LOL
    No one does till it affects them


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  • #82
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    We just had this happen to us, we won a contract cleaning a parking garage. The owner of the garage is the city which is leasing to a local collage. When we won the contract we had to have a meeting with all parties including the EPA to make sure that we where doing everything that we should (including reclaim) every bit of the water was reclaimed. While doing the job our competition should up and didn't worry about the no trespassing signs that the city posted, when I seen him I told him he needed to leave that it was posted no trespassing. About 3 hours after he left we had the EPA show up on the job site and reinspected our cleaning habits then approved us yet again.

    So the point is even if you have the equipment, there are still companies out there that are jealous that you won a contract.
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  • #83
    Member Junior Undergraduate carolinawildcat's Avatar
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    My condo sits on a large lagoon with gators, ospreys, eagles, herons, ducks, turtles, ibis, snakes, et. al. What if a contractor is washing blacktop in front of my home and allowing the water to go into the storm sewer? I'm no tree-hugger, but can my condo POA be held liable?

    Is it "OK" to turn someone in considering this situation? Do you approach the contractor and speak to him about it? Its a tough call when it comes to another person's livelihood, but on the flip side, can my POA be sued?

    To paraphrase Charlie Bragg, "You don't shoot a man on his front porch." I guess he meant that you have to knock on the door, tell him you gonna shoot him, then do it in the front yard while allowing himself to defend. Perhaps that is the mindset from some of the comments so far: beat the other contractor in the marketplace, but don't kneecap him when he not expecting it. That is admirable.

    Of course, if you tamper with someone's livelihood, I'm sure there are a few that will not heed Mr. Bragg's advice, which can be a scary thought.

    I found myself in an uncomfortable situation recently. My girlfriend's neighbor is a pw contractor and coincidentally, he has the contract for the condo development in which they both live. I have spoken with him informally in the past, we have storage units near one another, and of course, have met him when visiting my girlfriend. He knows what I do and I know what he does.

    One time we were speaking of his new rig, and I asked him if purchased a reclaim unit. He did not. Fast-forward to this past weekend, when the contractor decided to clean the blacktop aprons behind my girlfriend's condo -- at 8:15 am. I overslept because of a particularly raucous birthday the night before, and she has trouble sleeping. I awoke around 9am to her yelling, "Didn't you tell me that a-hole drains oily water into the lagoons?" I mumbled something in the affirmative and rolled over. She replied, "Good, I'm gonna report that jerk, he woke me up this morning!"
    My eyes popped open wide. Guess who the other contractor is going to blame? I'm going to be careful when I walk on my porch. This is a small town. And before any of you sages tell me to talk my girlfriend out of reporting him, well, lets just say, you've never met my girlfriend.

    At what point does the POA exercise its fiduciary responsibility and hold the management company responsible for whom it hires? Or is the property mgmt company simply an agent of the POA, executing its wishes, under its budget constraints? Much of this is above my paygrade, and perhaps the powers that be here at pwi can set up a program of handouts, talking points, state-by-state law reviews, etc., to help us educate the industry (or, more specifically, the buyers). I can't help but think that by separating the wheat from the chaff, margins go up for the legitimate guys.
    AT Horton
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    "Stencils are for Guys That Are Afraid To Sell"

  • #84
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolinawildcat View Post
    My condo sits on a large lagoon with gators, ospreys, eagles, herons, ducks, turtles, ibis, snakes, et. al. What if a contractor is washing blacktop in front of my home and allowing the water to go into the storm sewer? I'm no tree-hugger, but can my condo POA be held liable?

    Is it "OK" to turn someone in considering this situation? Do you approach the contractor and speak to him about it? Its a tough call when it comes to another person's livelihood, but on the flip side, can my POA be sued?

    To paraphrase Charlie Bragg, "You don't shoot a man on his front porch." I guess he meant that you have to knock on the door, tell him you gonna shoot him, then do it in the front yard while allowing himself to defend. Perhaps that is the mindset from some of the comments so far: beat the other contractor in the marketplace, but don't kneecap him when he not expecting it. That is admirable.

    Of course, if you tamper with someone's livelihood, I'm sure there are a few that will not heed Mr. Bragg's advice, which can be a scary thought.

    I found myself in an uncomfortable situation recently. My girlfriend's neighbor is a pw contractor and coincidentally, he has the contract for the condo development in which they both live. I have spoken with him informally in the past, we have storage units near one another, and of course, have met him when visiting my girlfriend. He knows what I do and I know what he does.

    One time we were speaking of his new rig, and I asked him if purchased a reclaim unit. He did not. Fast-forward to this past weekend, when the contractor decided to clean the blacktop aprons behind my girlfriend's condo -- at 8:15 am. I overslept because of a particularly raucous birthday the night before, and she has trouble sleeping. I awoke around 9am to her yelling, "Didn't you tell me that a-hole drains oily water into the lagoons?" I mumbled something in the affirmative and rolled over. She replied, "Good, I'm gonna report that jerk, he woke me up this morning!"
    My eyes popped open wide. Guess who the other contractor is going to blame? I'm going to be careful when I walk on my porch. This is a small town. And before any of you sages tell me to talk my girlfriend out of reporting him, well, lets just say, you've never met my girlfriend.

    At what point does the POA exercise its fiduciary responsibility and hold the management company responsible for whom it hires? Or is the property mgmt company simply an agent of the POA, executing its wishes, under its budget constraints? Much of this is above my paygrade, and perhaps the powers that be here at pwi can set up a program of handouts, talking points, state-by-state law reviews, etc., to help us educate the industry (or, more specifically, the buyers). I can't help but think that by separating the wheat from the chaff, margins go up for the legitimate guys.
    What evidence do you have that rinsing that parking lot has any adverse effect at all on the wildlife?

    There is a lot more going on here than any concern for the environment.

    1) The other contractor has you beat. He either sells better does a better job or is more efficient and thus can charge less.

    2) Most people wouldn't think twice about a contractor rinsing asphalt without reclaiming. GOD does it frequently. The only reason your girlfriend does is because you have prepped her for it whining about other contractors who work more than you do. That is why they are "waking you up at 9am".

    3) Would you see the need to print flyers to educate people on the dangers of farting? Farting produces a gas that, in sufficient quantities can be lethal to our children. I have a feeling that without evidence to prove that farting actually causes harm, your flyers to "educate" the farters would be insane. And your money would be better spent educating yourself.

    What harm is coming to that lagoon? I would like to see pictures showing that parking lot draining directly into the lagoon anyway. If it does so without a grassy buffer your POA may have more problems than you think

    Remember the gulf oil spill? Millions of gallons disappeared because God has a mechanism to deal with it.

    There is no concern for the environment in your story, just bitterness that you can't force people to spent more for your services. And you are in full agreement with your girlfriend or you would have put her in check. If there was any real concern you would have gotten up out of bed and been responsible enough to get out there and protect the precious lagoon with the equipment you have.





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  • #85
    Member Junior Undergraduate carolinawildcat's Avatar
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    non sequitur (n) a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from anything previously said


    I have no evidence, nor do I want any. I do not write the laws, nor do I enforce them. My personal beliefs have nothing to do with existing law, enforcement, liability, etc. Re-read my question: Is my POA liable?

    1. What does him having "me beat" have to do with anything? I don't do work such as condo developments -- again, re-read my post, I wasn't complaining about him having the business. More power to him.

    2. It matters not that many people don't think twice about rinsing -- sometimes the nosy liberals DO, and they write the law. Nice ad hominem attack on my wake times. Really Tony, get over yourself.

    3. When I mentioned handouts, I was referring to materials to provide to decision-makers. I'm quite sure that some of the Thinkers on this board are looking to improve the industry through education. I think I read it somewhere.

    Also, no bitterness in my post, and no mention of pricing or anything of the sort, where do you come up with this? Congrats, you now alerted everyone to how smart you are. Is there anyone else on this board that would like to contribute anything intelligent to say about my original question: Can the POA be sued?
    AT Horton
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    ATH Property Services
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    "Stencils are for Guys That Are Afraid To Sell"

  • #86
    Member Honorary Professor Newlook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Shelton View Post
    What evidence do you have that rinsing that parking lot has any adverse effect at all on the wildlife?

    There is a lot more going on here than any concern for the environment.

    1) The other contractor has you beat. He either sells better does a better job or is more efficient and thus can charge less.

    2) Most people wouldn't think twice about a contractor rinsing asphalt without reclaiming. GOD does it frequently. The only reason your girlfriend does is because you have prepped her for it whining about other contractors who work more than you do. That is why they are "waking you up at 9am".

    3) Would you see the need to print flyers to educate people on the dangers of farting? Farting produces a gas that, in sufficient quantities can be lethal to our children. I have a feeling that without evidence to prove that farting actually causes harm, your flyers to "educate" the farters would be insane. And your money would be better spent educating yourself.

    What harm is coming to that lagoon? I would like to see pictures showing that parking lot draining directly into the lagoon anyway. If it does so without a grassy buffer your POA may have more problems than you think

    Remember the gulf oil spill? Millions of gallons disappeared because God has a mechanism to deal with it.

    There is no concern for the environment in your story, just bitterness that you can't force people to spent more for your services. And you are in full agreement with your girlfriend or you would have put her in check. If there was any real concern you would have gotten up out of bed and been responsible enough to get out there and protect the precious lagoon with the equipment you have.





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  • #87
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    Your answer is yes. You POA can be sued for anything, whether a law has been broken or not.

    If you would like some education on this matter why don't you arrend Jerry's washwater control seminar instead of putting bait questions out.

    Currrently there is no federal law against rinsing into a lagoon. Period.

    IF your city is large enough they hold a permit (NPDES) that gives them the PERMISSION to allow xxx amount of pollutants into the waterways within a given time period. If your city is not large enough then your state may hold a permit. As long as they remain within those levels no laws have been broken. Even when those levels are exceeded they are given time to correct the problem.

    Mobile contractors fall under the city or state permit. If your local government has made specific laws against rinsing parking lots into the waterways an there is, in fact, no vegetative buffer, then they alone can come after you for breaking their law. It has nothing to do with the EPA.

    If you want education you can either listen to those of us who have put in the time and effort to learn the law or you can learn it yourself. I just spent almost a month and a half from Seattle to San Diego speaking with environmental enforcement agencies on my own dime.

    From speaking to them I know for sure that our industry needs to be re-educated regarding the law and turn away from the fabulists who have spent years spreading falsehoods.

    Take it or leave it. Those are the facts.

    If you want the facts, there they are and feel free to call me anytime with more questions.

    How about you post the address and lets take a look on google earth and see if its possible to rinse that lot WITHOUT being in compliance. I've never seen a lagoon in a condo complex without a vegetative buffer. But there is a first time for everything.

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  • #88
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Shelton View Post
    What evidence do you have that rinsing that parking lot has any adverse effect at all on the wildlife?

    There is a lot more going on here than any concern for the environment.

    1) The other contractor has you beat. He either sells better does a better job or is more efficient and thus can charge less.

    2) Most people wouldn't think twice about a contractor rinsing asphalt without reclaiming. GOD does it frequently. The only reason your girlfriend does is because you have prepped her for it whining about other contractors who work more than you do. That is why they are "waking you up at 9am".

    3) Would you see the need to print flyers to educate people on the dangers of farting? Farting produces a gas that, in sufficient quantities can be lethal to our children. I have a feeling that without evidence to prove that farting actually causes harm, your flyers to "educate" the farters would be insane. And your money would be better spent educating yourself.

    What harm is coming to that lagoon? I would like to see pictures showing that parking lot draining directly into the lagoon anyway. If it does so without a grassy buffer your POA may have more problems than you think

    Remember the gulf oil spill? Millions of gallons disappeared because God has a mechanism to deal with it.

    There is no concern for the environment in your story, just bitterness that you can't force people to spent more for your services. And you are in full agreement with your girlfriend or you would have put her in check. If there was any real concern you would have gotten up out of bed and been responsible enough to get out there and protect the precious lagoon with the equipment you have.





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    I am sure I was out of line and prejudging with some of my comments above. They have been left intact and quoted as a reminder to myself to try to learn a lesson from it. Please accept my apology.

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  • #89
    Member 2000 PLUS POSTER Lou hoods&more's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Tony Shelton;241435]If you call in speeders on the interstate to 911 to report them, then yes, you should turn in your competitors.

    If you call in to report that your neighbor washed his car on the driveway instead of the grass, then yes, you should turn in your competitors.

    If you see an unmarked pickup truck arrive at your neighbor's house and work on his air conditioner and report that, then yes, you should turn in your competitor.

    If you notice an expired license plate in front of you and call 911 to report it, then yes, turn in your competitor.

    If you do those things above you are simply an azzhole. Just like you are if you turn in your competitors.

    Turning in your competitors simply means you are too weak to sell your service to your customers on it's own merits and you have to cry to the authorities to try to make up for your pathetic salesmanship.


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  • #90
    Member Junior Undergraduate carolinawildcat's Avatar
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    Apology accepted, but not necessary.
    I attended your hvac cleaning tutorial in Myrtle Beach and found your presentation insightful, informative & entertaining. I look to you and the other elders for good info & advice. No harm, no foul.
    AT Horton
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  • #91
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Turning your Competition in will never Lead to anything Good
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  • #92
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolinawildcat View Post
    Apology accepted, but not necessary.
    I attended your hvac cleaning tutorial in Myrtle Beach and found your presentation insightful, informative & entertaining. I look to you and the other elders for good info & advice. No harm, no foul.
    Ahhhhh, Myrtle Beach. One of the most stressful events I've ever been to. I wouldn't blame you if you thought I was a complete Ahole there!

    At least Carlos and I have become friends since then.

    We need to work together like the construction industry has and educate ourselves, the authorities and our customers on what the phrase "to the greatest extent practicable" means.

    That is what the clean water act says about reclaim.

    It's not "practicable" if our customers stop all cleaning because the cost is over the affordable threshold.

    I hope we can become educated and educate others before we are legislated out of business.
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  • #93
    Member Honorary Professor Newlook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Shelton View Post
    Ahhhhh, Myrtle Beach. One of the most stressful events I've ever been to. I wouldn't blame you if you thought I was a complete Ahole there!

    At least Carlos and I have become friends since then.

    We need to work together like the construction industry has and educate ourselves, the authorities and our customers on what the phrase "to the greatest extent practicable" means.

    That is what the clean water act says about reclaim.

    It's not "practicable" if our customers stop all cleaning because the cost is over the affordable threshold.

    I hope we can become educated and educate others before we are legislated out of business.
    You betcha!!!

    Carlos Gonzales
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  • #94
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Interesting tHread
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