PWNA vs the WEST COAST

Chris Detter

New member
Hi Everyone
These following thoughts are for those who may have some reservations and misconceptions about the PWNA and it's Board of directors. But before I talk about the west coast let me say mention one thing.
The PWNA was originally developed to bring those of us who are basically pressure washers together and to allow a means of group support sharing of ideas and networking of techiques, chemical usage etc. Things that those of us in the actual trenches really want to know. I personally joined in 1994 when I was just starting out, I was washing anything and everything I could just to make a buck. I soon realized that I couldn't be everything to everybody, let alone be very good at more that 1 or 2 things. I went to a small technical PWNA seminar in Atlanta when the organization was just starting out. In those days I didn't even know which end of a pressure washer the water came out of, let alone the correct way to wash anything. I would call other pressure washers to ask them silly questions and all I got was "Man figure it out for yourself," At this meeting I met 8 to10 real pressure washers who had been in the business for years who in my opinion were professionals. The coolest thing about these guys was that they didn't mind sharing ideas, processes etc. I felt a real feeling of belong to something worth while. I saw a little demo about wood restoration found out that nobody was even doing it back then, thats when I decided to put all my energies into wood sealers and chemicals, and since then have built a fairly successful wood business. This philosopy of sharing secrets I think is what helped me grow. I continued going to the conventions year after year and learned something every time, but more importantly I developed some great friendships that have lasted for years.
The PWNA 's board of directors (who are made up of guy's and girl's just like us, pressure washers) meet once a month by telephone conference call. Our biggest concern is always membership and why do people join stay for 2 years then not renew there membership. We talk at great lengths every meeting about this issue and all we seem to figure out is maybe new start up companies need somewhere to go to ask questions and learn, then after they are established and making money they don't need help anymore. Although some to stay even after that time because they want to share with the newbe's too. I call it "giving something back). We also wonder are we as an organization doing everything we can to keep membership up. We have tried many things and will continue to try. Please If you have any suggestions please call me personally, or post your thought on Ron's board, I read it every day. my job at present with the PWNA is to keep membership up. Believe me the board of directors do listen, some one made a comment about The PWNA only wants to make money off there members, believe me we don't. We use about every penny to put keep the organization afloat. The two conventions a year use up just about all the money we have. The board of directors receive no money at all, we even have to pay personally for the monthly 2 hour conference calls. The subject of doing conventions on the west coast comes up all the time, We have been to Vegas I think twice. Each time we never even brought in enough people to pay for our room and meal gaurantees, the organization had to foot the bill. We wonder if maybe there wasn't that many pressure washers out there so we try to stay back midwest to east simply because of the larger concentration of members, washers and exhibitors(suppliers) are back here.
I for one love the west coast I was born and raised in Redlands California, I'd love to go home. I am always tring to get us to do conventions out there, but history sez there isn't enough concentration of interest. Now if this is wrong (and I hope it is) please contact me and I'll count the numbers and use that for ammo. We have looked at the idea of two divisions, probably a nightmare to organize and run , but maybe not impossibe, who knows.
Anyway Sorry for the long winded thoughts, but let me say one more thing regarding the cancellation of the Pittsburgh, Pa show. The reason should be obvious, because of the attack on our nation on sept. 11, we had a large amount of members call and cancel there flights, room reservations etc. leaving us no choice financially.
We are all very sorry fo that. Anyway I've gone on long enough, thank you for your patience.
"God Bless America" Chris Detter/Sun Brite/VP PWNA



:)
 

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Chris,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I think the reason you don’t see the West Coast pressure washers flocking to the PWNA membership is that we don’t have as many problems, due to weather, as pressure washers do on the West Coast. Possibly the reason for a larger membership base on the East Coast is because they are looking for alternatives to pressure washing to compensate for the period where they are unable to conduct their normal business.

I have been running my business without any support from organizations. I have asked several pressure washers on the West Coast and many have never heard of the PWNA. I would say on average that 1 in 20 know about the organization and the others don’t even care.

Last year I asked Andrew Avery if the PWNA would be interested in setting up a satellite branch on the West Coast. His reply was they tried that and failed and that they would not be setting up any branches at all. This is very disheartening to a person that wants to help and share knowledge with the industry.

You ask why people aren’t staying around, loyalty is part of the reason and some feel they have nothing to gain. As a businessman, I realize you need to make your own success. No organization will make you successful if you are not willing to put forth the effort to succeed. Some guys think that they can pay $250 and you will take them by the horns and lead them to the Promised Land.

My suggestions to the PWNA are as follows. Come up with more educational programs that will benefit new and veteran washers. Adopt a rule that a board member or two are in every region. Last year the closest board member was the president in Texas.

How many board members do you have now and what is the voting process? Could I receive a list of all of the board members’ e-mail addresses? Perhaps through The Bulletin Board we could stimulate some thoughts and suggestions for revitalization of the PWNA.
:confused: :confused: :D :D
 
I have been setting here for thirty minutes and I can't come up for one reason why we even need a national group. If the net had not been as easy as this bb is, PWNA would in fact be stronger. If I have a question on anything I can get a reply from five people on this bb and others.

We do need a buying regional group based on specialty and certification, that would allow truck load buys. An example would be roll plastic. I buy two pallets per buy and I know that we could reduce price if we could combine orders. Here lies the problem and that is location of the group and members. The answer would be regional groups.

Another problem is that PWNA tries to appeal to everyone and in turn has little appeal to anyone. New members just don't stick around and I am sure you membership list should show that. Does PWNA need two shows per year? If so why?

The bb and networking is the key and PWNA should re-think why we (PWNA) are doing thing the old way. It takes months for them to change there PWNA bb regarding new show and or topics-I stopped going the bb last year.

David
 
There must be close to 100 pressure washing companies in Los Angeles (although the term that is widely used is "steam cleaners") and as far as I can see none of them advertise that they are a member of the PWNA. The reason is that there is no reason to be part of the PWNA or IKECA for that matter. In California all it takes is some schmuck with a scraper and some newspapers and voila he is a kitchen exhaust cleaner. Heck you don't even need any kind of licence to pressure wash an exhaust system. If the PWNA wants new members on the west coast it needs to fight for the guys that would become members, the reputable companies,the guys that would be the first ones in line to get licensed if it were required. I can tell you right now that as far as exhaust cleaners go you would get at least 10 companies here in LA. Out of the 100 pressure washers I would guess about 25.

Matt
 
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viola(ve) n. instrument like, but larger than, the violin-vi-ol-list n.

Webster's New World

"The Name You Trust"
 
Chris,

I for one believe in organizations. In general they boost the moral of its members most of the time. They are a common ground where people who have similiar interest can congregate such as your conventions.

Oh by the way I'm disappointed that the Oct. Convention was cancelled but I completely understand. No explanation needed.

My membership also has expired because for me I get alot more out of these bb's then I would at this time with the PWNA. If I would've made it to the convention I probably would have signed back up once again. If only to support our industry. This is my dilemma as far as signing up.

An idea I have(even though I'm not a member at this time) would be to Speak to Ron about possibly having the PWNA as one of the sponsors to this bb so he can advertise there logo up top. Its another way to get the PWNA organization out there for potential new members. Another Idea would be to get the owners of these bb's a free membership or even a board membership in some capacity so they can keep there members updated and informed about the PWNA. The point I'm making here is that you and your organization need to get yourself more positive publicity in this field and a way to do that is thru the bb's. Of course this is my opinion and my opinion only. Ron may disagree with me completely. But you see thats the beauty of this and most other bb's in this field which is an open line of communication.

As for the problems your organization is having with the PWNA and the west coast I think guys like Ron and Jon can elaborate much further in detail because that is there area. I would listen to them and others out there to get a better understanding as to how to solve that problem. Never close the doors of communication if thats possible. There has got to be an answer to that problem somewhere.

The other problem I see is the $250 price tag for a contractor to be a yearly member of your Organization. Me personally, I have no problem with your price because I know it has to cost alot for you guys to keep the PWNA afloat. Thats a ground ball.

The problem is what are you offering for the $250 price tag. Besides the guilt of some of us have(myself included) where we want to support our organization, there has to be more offered for that price tag. $250 can go along way if it was donated to RED CROSS for example but for the PWNA the $250 not only should be to support the organization but to also give something more back to the members then what is already being done. This is where my dilemma and I bet many others falls.

What can be added to keep members in the PWNA? Well thats the million $ question. And if you want to discuss this further then post it on the bb so we can all come up with Idea's together. Brain storming if you will.

Anyway just some thoughts from a Powerwasher in the background looking in.

John/Clean County PW
 
Chris Detter,

For the record I do not dislike or hate the PWNA as some might think and as many of my post sound like.

I am also gratefull for the PWNA allowing my wife to attend the convention in Las Vegas free as my ears and note taker, I would not have heard and learned anything without her there to take tons of notes for me. For that I thank the PWNA.

What I don't agree with is some of the things it does and some of the things the chosen few say and believe in.

I have in the past while I was a member sent Email, snail mail and phoned Andrew Avery a few times who of course has not once replied to any of the above, but then I have heard the same from others so the man needs to be educated in proper business etiquette, also Pat Graham who got a copy of the same letter.

That said let us cover what the PWNA has done for it's membership, it got a shipping discount but since pressure washers rarely ship things it really is a discount for the sponsors to save on shipping cost, which as we all know they don"t but should pass on to the members.

It got a discount for credit card use and again very few pressure washers accept credit card charges so that again goes to the sponsors and again they don't pass it along to the members when buying and charging things.

It got an online office supply company that charges more for things before shipping then if you went to you local office supply store, also they are very limited in what they do have, I have called them several times to check price and every time it was more before shipping cost was added, so much for that discount.

It has a mentoring program that is useless, or at least it was in my case, when I joined my mentor was Johnny Johnston, ( I might be spelling his last name wrong) I sent him Email, I called and left messages, I sent snail mail and like Mr. Avery not once did he reply to me.

Your mentoring program needs to be overhauled, get mentors who are truly willing to take the time to help, not just see there name up there as a mentor for their ego's.

It sends out duplicate and triplicate mailings of the same subject, a waste of paper, stamps, envelopes etc. In other words no control on who sent out what to whom. Look into that and cut cost.

Allow all members a chance to be on the board of directors, as it appears now it is the same few over and over rotating positions.

Chris would you be willing to publish a list of all board members and their positions year by year from day one? My personal feeling is it would be the same few over and over with a new face once in awhile, am I right?

Would the founding fathers be willing to offer discounts to the pwna members?

I spoke with both Daryl and Michael last week but during out talks his cell phone disconnected and we could not reconnect so our conversation ended half way though. I did get the impression that the board has no true idea of what Andrew Avery is doing, it would be wise if all the board met with him face to face and clear this up and lay down some rules for him follow, we all know he is a marketing person and manages several other businesses besides the PWNA.

Daryl said in a post to mine that is now deleted from Delco’s board, “ask not what the PWNA can do for you but what you can do for it”. People join an organization not for what they can do for it but what it can and should do for the members.

In time some members do want to get more involved and run for a seat on the board or help in other ways, that is how it should be, but let some new blood in please.

I belong to the California Restaurant Association and for the same yearly membership I get so much more, in other words they work for their members benefit, not the other way around.

Other post here said it well, how about bulk buying discounts passed onto the members and not just the sponsors?

How about truly considering the West Coast? Best way to do that is to open a branch out here and market the PWNA just like any other business that wants to grow, you need to get the word out and the best way is to find all the legal pressure washers and invite them to join. One post about Los Angeles is so true yet there are many more of us then that out West.

The PWNA has two shows a year, split them up, one in the West and one in the East and please don't tell me it never does well in the West, I went to the show in Las Vegas and felt it was great, I learned, I met people and I came home impressed.

(I am aware not all shows bring in a profit, partly do to the lack of members by the way, the more members, the more vendors the larger and better a show.

In that show I met Andrew, I spoke to him and asked about his pressure washing experience, I got shocked when he said I am not a pressure washer but am college educated in business, I then suggested he spend a couple weeks a year working with different pressure washers to learn what we are about, his reply was another shock, NO WAY will I work doing that, ask yourself if he is the right man for the job he has, no wonder he has not gotten any benefits for the working members but only the top sponsors.

This is long enough, Chris feel free to call me and we can talk in a civil way about this or anything you wish but please don't try to say there is a misconception here, the pressure washers are smart enough to see and understand what is really going on.

I recall members asking to see the books so they could learn how much was taken in and where it was going, I recall a blunt NO WAY answer to the members. That tends to show people there is something being hidden, something that they don't want the members to learn about.

Is that true or do they feel the paying members have no need to know about the above?

People tend to distrust when those things happen Chris and I am sure you as a person would too, I am not saying that the PWNA makes tons of money as I have before, Daryl and I pretty much covered that area so I do back off on that. However the PWNA is truly not broke either or it would fold and drop from sight.

Chris listen to what others say and ask about, those are the things members want, learn from them and add to the list of benefits. An organization that truly provides for it's members in turn will see those members grows in knowledge and experience and in turn tell others about what should be a truly great thing, the PWNA.

Yes it does offer some good things but here again stop on see who really benefits, all the classes are put on by who? the foundering fathers businesses for what, both to teach new members and to gain profits by selling the products.

Chris call me or I would gladly call you and I will gladly talk to you civilly about this and anything else you want to talk about.
 
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Just had a wonderful talk with Chris Detter about not only the PWNA but things in general.

This guy is good indeed, I also can say he wants to make some changes to the PWNA that would benefit all its members and bring in new members and former ones back.

I am smart enough to know change does not happen overnight and will be watching for things to slowly change within the PWNA, hopefully rather then the Board of Directors trying to do to much to soon they listen to Chris and take it step by step.

Chris I look forward to staying in touch by E-mail, voice mail and right here on this board.

To all whom are reading this, post your idea's about what YOU want to see the PWNA offer members, what would it take to get YOU to join?

I can say like I told Chris I might rejoin someday too.
 
What woudl it take to get me to join?
1. A track record of promoting the industry.
2. Administrators that actually have a basic understanding of the industry and don't look down on it.
3. Real price advantages that effect all members.
4. Rotating leadership. Not the same basic people in charge year after year.
5. Some kind of bid sourcing for contracts, both Government and Private.
6. Discounts, or at least a group rate, on the various insurances that we all should carry, especially health.
7. Seminars targeted at existing contractors, and viable classes and available information.
8. No elitist attitude. I guess this could tie with number 2.
 
I'm with you Scott.
As it stands now, its not worth the money.
 
When I first saw the info on the PWNA, I thought it was a great way of finding new information. But then I saw $250.00. What do I get for this kind of money. NOT MUCH. Did not seem like a great investment, even in professional dues IRS tax break. When I see that the PWNA can offer more benefits to me worht 250 dollars, I will gladly take an active part, but just to say I'm a member of PWNA, Not Yet. I have gained valuable info from numerous sources within the business that have taught me so much I can't begin to say how greatful I am. What did it cost me, time (during down time due to weather) and coffee and smokes while surfing for info. If things change with the PWNA benefits, yes I will consider membership, would really like to go to one of the conventions when I can afford it. Having just started my business, I will be playing catch up to start up costs for a while. As ya'll said, just stating my perspective.
 
On that #1 point of Scotties,


Just think if a customer ever asked if you are a member of the pwna. We would all be standing in line ready to join, this would mean that they have promoted there business as being the leader in pressure washing sales. Every organization promotes in some ways, just like the registrar of contractors. we are trained to think its safer to use a registered contractor.
 
Hi Chris

Figure I would respond on the board then instead of calling you. Just to let you kno you have given me some ideals and tool that helped my business grow 33% this year, as for that I Thank You. As for the convention being cancelled I was very upset, not only because of the what happened in New York where I was born, but that the people that cancelled were letting the idiots control them on learning more about there business. As for the membership, $250.00 is not much, but I belong to another org, with my pest control business and they even give us a magazine subscription called PCT. I just think that PWNA should include cleaner times in our membership package. As for having a local group around here or anywhere else, you must have alot of people committed to do this, maybe some day this will happen.


Thanks Again

Charlie
 

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I was a member for 5 years. I had nothing but the utmost faith and belief that it had the potential to be a wonderful organization.

I put everything into helping the PWNA. I am not going to turn bleeding heart on ya'll, but I was treated terribly by the PWNA. Both by some of the board members, and by Mr. Avery. I tried and tried and tried. I put MY reputation on the line again and again, and got nothing back. I tried to set up things like government contacts for both the Environmental regulations as well as easy outlets for acquiring government contracts. My other half and I worked our tails off to ensure that the environmental regulations would not eat other pressure washers for lunch. We have come VERY FAR with out any support.

We are still fighting this fight, bloodied but unbowed. We have actually set Best Management practices, pushed the enforcement of illegal contractors, and taken all of the blows.

I still feel that PWNA let ME down. Everytime I brought in a new contact or forged new relationships that were beneficial to the Power Washing business on the whole, PWNA dropped the ball. I did all of the work, there was little for the PWNA to do except follow up. I had to repair all of those relationships. Half of those groups, companies, etc., now see the PWNA as a worthless little group.

I had just said in a previous post that I was not going to get on my soap box, but here I am again. I was the Southwest Regional Director. But because I had no support from the PWNA, I couldn't keep the membership here in the Southwest interested. There were NO benefits to contractors in this area. I did bring up the issues of importance here in the Southwest and they were always ignored. There never seemed to be an interest in trying to gain, let alone keep, members in this area.

As Jon had said, if you would actually like to talk to me, please feel free to contact me by phone as well. I don't want to go on and on if it is the same old thing.

Kendra Tillery
Polished Perfection
714-412-2646
 
Hi Everyone
These following thoughts are for those who may have some reservations and misconceptions about the PWNA and it's Board of directors. But before I talk about the west coast let me say mention one thing.
The PWNA was originally developed to bring those of us who are basically pressure washers together and to allow a means of group support sharing of ideas and networking of techiques, chemical usage etc. Things that those of us in the actual trenches really want to know. I personally joined in 1994 when I was just starting out, I was washing anything and everything I could just to make a buck. I soon realized that I couldn't be everything to everybody, let alone be very good at more that 1 or 2 things. I went to a small technical PWNA seminar in Atlanta when the organization was just starting out. In those days I didn't even know which end of a pressure washer the water came out of, let alone the correct way to wash anything. I would call other pressure washers to ask them silly questions and all I got was "Man figure it out for yourself," At this meeting I met 8 to10 real pressure washers who had been in the business for years who in my opinion were professionals. The coolest thing about these guys was that they didn't mind sharing ideas, processes etc. I felt a real feeling of belong to something worth while. I saw a little demo about wood restoration found out that nobody was even doing it back then, thats when I decided to put all my energies into wood sealers and chemicals, and since then have built a fairly successful wood business. This philosopy of sharing secrets I think is what helped me grow. I continued going to the conventions year after year and learned something every time, but more importantly I developed some great friendships that have lasted for years.
The PWNA 's board of directors (who are made up of guy's and girl's just like us, pressure washers) meet once a month by telephone conference call. Our biggest concern is always membership and why do people join stay for 2 years then not renew there membership. We talk at great lengths every meeting about this issue and all we seem to figure out is maybe new start up companies need somewhere to go to ask questions and learn, then after they are established and making money they don't need help anymore. Although some to stay even after that time because they want to share with the newbe's too. I call it "giving something back). We also wonder are we as an organization doing everything we can to keep membership up. We have tried many things and will continue to try. Please If you have any suggestions please call me personally, or post your thought on Ron's board, I read it every day. my job at present with the PWNA is to keep membership up. Believe me the board of directors do listen, some one made a comment about The PWNA only wants to make money off there members, believe me we don't. We use about every penny to put keep the organization afloat. The two conventions a year use up just about all the money we have. The board of directors receive no money at all, we even have to pay personally for the monthly 2 hour conference calls. The subject of doing conventions on the west coast comes up all the time, We have been to Vegas I think twice. Each time we never even brought in enough people to pay for our room and meal gaurantees, the organization had to foot the bill. We wonder if maybe there wasn't that many pressure washers out there so we try to stay back midwest to east simply because of the larger concentration of members, washers and exhibitors(suppliers) are back here.
I for one love the west coast I was born and raised in Redlands California, I'd love to go home. I am always tring to get us to do conventions out there, but history sez there isn't enough concentration of interest. Now if this is wrong (and I hope it is) please contact me and I'll count the numbers and use that for ammo. We have looked at the idea of two divisions, probably a nightmare to organize and run , but maybe not impossibe, who knows.
Anyway Sorry for the long winded thoughts, but let me say one more thing regarding the cancellation of the Pittsburgh, Pa show. The reason should be obvious, because of the attack on our nation on sept. 11, we had a large amount of members call and cancel there flights, room reservations etc. leaving us no choice financially.
We are all very sorry fo that. Anyway I've gone on long enough, thank you for your patience.
"God Bless America" Chris Detter/Sun Brite/VP PWNA



:)


Ten years later the Same Chris
 
Treated bad, no not the PWNA
I was a member for 5 years. I had nothing but the utmost faith and belief that it had the potential to be a wonderful organization.

I put everything into helping the PWNA. I am not going to turn bleeding heart on ya'll, but I was treated terribly by the PWNA. Both by some of the board members, and by Mr. Avery. I tried and tried and tried. I put MY reputation on the line again and again, and got nothing back. I tried to set up things like government contacts for both the Environmental regulations as well as easy outlets for acquiring government contracts. My other half and I worked our tails off to ensure that the environmental regulations would not eat other pressure washers for lunch. We have come VERY FAR with out any support.

We are still fighting this fight, bloodied but unbowed. We have actually set Best Management practices, pushed the enforcement of illegal contractors, and taken all of the blows.

I still feel that PWNA let ME down. Everytime I brought in a new contact or forged new relationships that were beneficial to the Power Washing business on the whole, PWNA dropped the ball. I did all of the work, there was little for the PWNA to do except follow up. I had to repair all of those relationships. Half of those groups, companies, etc., now see the PWNA as a worthless little group.

I had just said in a previous post that I was not going to get on my soap box, but here I am again. I was the Southwest Regional Director. But because I had no support from the PWNA, I couldn't keep the membership here in the Southwest interested. There were NO benefits to contractors in this area. I did bring up the issues of importance here in the Southwest and they were always ignored. There never seemed to be an interest in trying to gain, let alone keep, members in this area.

As Jon had said, if you would actually like to talk to me, please feel free to contact me by phone as well. I don't want to go on and on if it is the same old thing.

Kendra Tillery
Polished Perfection
714-412-2646
 
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