Did anyone see this thread over on the grime scene

John, the statment that "the P+NA is not held in high regard there" is based on conversations and opinions expressed I have had with different people within various City Departments. The statement "they pretty much shot themselves in the foot there" is my opinion basd on my conversations w some of the enforcement personell as well as other City Officials as well as the history of the PWN= and the City of Houston.

And yes we all agree that none of us would want to drink the water that goes down a storm drain or put it in our fish tank. Thats pretty basic, but Sergeant Walsh makes that statement to prove a point and we all understand that. That's pretty basic responsible pollution control.

Not sure that Seargent Walsh can help you with an answer about allowing your wash water or hot water down drains in New York. But if you want to call him and ask feel free.

No one doubts that Robert has been working w Houston from the beginning. I agree with Ron on his statement about that.

Yes, I was there and heard Seargent Walsh make the statement about "you should belong to an association because they are the ones that can help you". Again a blanket statment and his opinion. I wonder how many power washers ran out that day and joined one of the orgs.

Not sure where I have ever said "this person is bad, or this person is great" I would never do that. And if I did I apologige profusely and ask your forgiveness. That is not in my character to attack someone, deservedly or not. I did say "the only thing that the PW*a can take credit for is creating this mess in the first place" and I stand by that statement. Again, John that is MY opinion.

I am not writing BMP's. That "phrase" has been removed from my vocabulary. And no the guidelines that WE (did not mean to insuate that I am writing these myself, I am no where near that smart) are writing, will not have any org attached to it nor will it have my name or anyone else's name. The city can choose to use them, modify them, or ignore them. Totally up to them. They will not be 'shopped' to anyone. They will be given to contractors if and when they ask for them.

And lastly No, I will not reveal names nor content of my conversations with the city officials that I talk to. Why? Because if I did that then you or someone might want to call them or start emailing them or start posting about them and that could seriously damage the relationship we have built with these people.
Call it pre damage control. I can understand you wanting to defend the PWN*, you do pay your dues, but please understand my love for the City I work in and the profession I have chosen. I would like to see it continue. In fact this may be my last post about Houston, seems everytime I post something or offend you, you want to call somebody here.

Now I need to go. I need to help our fellow contractors to be able to stay at work. Houston is days away from stage 3 water restrictions in which they will attempt to shut down all power washers, car washes, window cleaners. Any business that uses water. If you really want to help us John. PRAY FOR RAIN FOR HOUSTON and lots of it.
 
Great post Doug.

I like that you want to protect the people you work with, nothing wrong with that as some people might want to try to contact them to help but with numerous calls or emails it will backfire and probably make the situation worse and after all that time you spent working with them, it would be a shame.

I also like the words "Guidelines" instead of the bmp's, shows progress in the right direction instead of a set of rules that are shopped all over to help sell equipment or make situations worse for the contractor. It is nice that one day soon that the city will have a set of guidelines set for the contractor to work and live by so that everyone is protecting the environment in a way that is contractor friendly and does not mean running out and buying a lot of equipment that is not needed.

I think that what needs to be said has been said about the Houston situation.

You and Ron M. did a great job and should be commended on helping the Houston Contractors.

It is great that now the city is on the same page and contractors can get out there and work without being scared anymore of worthless bmp's or other nonsense like that that only serves a few instead the many.

I think that this thread should be locked now, it is up to the others to decide as this thread will probably only get worse now or start problems with others arriving late to the show.

I will pray for rain as we also need it down here also.

Good Luck Doug.
 
Ron says it right there that Robert has been handling Houston since the beginning. So Robert didn't just jump in on this because it was the hot story for the summer. Also I'm reading Dougs post below and Doug is stating that his new BMP's he's working on won't have any org named attached to it. Meanwhile if you listen to Sgt. Walshes Video that Mike H. posted on TGS, SGT. Walsh states right in there that you should belong to your associations because they are the ones who help you.

Ron made a mistake IMHO. He should have taken that position offered by the UAMCC as the Vice chair so he to can help with the BMP's. Ron is one of the few guys I know that can do this because he has the money to stay on top of this while his workers are out there doing the Powerwashing. Us others have to work....I know I do so I can't stay on top of this like Ron and Robert can along with some others.

I already watched the 3 video's Mike has posted and I'm requesting to get the whole DVD. I really want to see what happened in there. The last thing I saw was that Sgt. Walsh was stating would us the Powerwashers drink the water that we send down the storm drains and nobody answers yes but it spills out in the Bayou's and the fish drink it and I guess somewhere it goes far enough the people drink it. So he says why would us the Powerwashers put water down the storm drain that we wouldn't drink yet because of us others will. He also states that none of the Powerwashers would even put there washing water in there own fish tank so what does that tell ya.

I think Doug and Ron did a heck of a job down there but its the little stuff that you read like Doug saying the PWNA isn't held in high regard there and he has first hand knowledge they shot themselves in the foot. Typical line to discredit something... So I ask doug..with that blnaket statement...who said that and did they hold any position within the Houston PD or whatever Group that SGT. Walsh mention because if so then your statement has Merit. So spill the beans. I belong to the PWNA and I pay my dues but if you have first hand knowledge of something like this.....lets hear it. If its the truth then all should hear it.

I knew I should have gone to this meeting so now I get this Person is great and this Person is bad and we have priviledge knowledge of this yet we are not going to tell us who said this.

I guess since this will eventually be heading across the country its time to learn the truth.
I'll call Sgt. Walsh myself and find out what was said there in a nutshell and what should I do here to protect myself and if he says that cold water cleaning can go down a storm drain or hot water for that matter since some of these garages we do have the Oil Seperators in its drains already at least I will know the truth.... unless Doug wants to tell us PWNA members something that apparently he knows and it came from a viable source.

So Doug lets here it so we can save our hard earned money from and org. that has "Shot itself in the foot" You said it so I'm calling you to the carpet on it.

While you have him on the phone ask him if the garage first sites had intercepters. Ask him if they where there before sited or after?

Ask him about the first time he sited and owner for not properly containing waste water. Property owner not PW.
He will tell you that he did nine or ten months parking duty. He has not cited one since.

Mr walsh was acting on the information given at the time to him. Truthfully I believe they did not know the proper interpretation if the ms4.

I think he still wants to site PW just washing like they had been doing prior.

If you watch the video he says he will get a judge to get warrant , who do you think informed them they should have had one in the first place?
 
John buddy leave it alone. Let the guys on the ground take care of it. You of all people know what damage orgs can do or how they can screw up. Things seem better when contractors take care of their biz in their own town.

That is correct, actually this and other small association should only assist local people with interest.

The problem is the Pwna and Uamcc contains a few people in this industry. They should not attempt to represent on a national level. Because they don't have the means to follow thru repercussions often can lead to the type of mess we have in Houston.

The other problem is the leaders believe in this will make members more money.

Please listen to what sgt. Walsh says happened to a few of the guys who started all this in Houston??? Gone, despite having the laws on there side and everyone else being extinct they still could not make it. This was his own testimony in that video. That proves selling this dream of elite contractor does not exist.

On thing for certain is I learned a Ton in Houston, I feel comfortable that people will never be able to pull mis informing major city authority's ever again.
 
National cleaning expo has trained educated and certified more contractors in the last 4 years than any other entity in the cleaning industry.

With our certified instructors will keep helping all these orgs move forward.

Knowledge is what's needed to educate yourself against anyone leading you down a wrong path.

I believe that through positive education and true leaders in the industry we will move forward.

I think the Pwna will even see that improvements are needed.

They need a team of enviro people who are informed and can give true credibility to our industry.

What Roberts done in some respects is great stuff if your going to pollute the ms4 , ultimately using sanitary will still go to our rivers and lakes. If your going to use these types of methods you should be practices them responsibly.

If you want a better way then you need to educate and train yourself in containment practices. Be able to access each site and know what you can and cannot do.

Neither method is wrong if you can get the authority to approve them.

Vacuum recovery is needed in some situations.

It's not the answer or most responsible compliance.

Please understand that factors will always determine these.
 
That is correct, actually this and other small association should only assist local people with interest.

The problem is the Pwna and Uamcc contains a few people in this industry. They should not attempt to represent on a national level. Because they don't have the means to follow thru repercussions often can lead to the type of mess we have in Houston.

The other problem is the leaders believe in this will make members more money.

Please listen to what sgt. Walsh says happened to a few of the guys who started all this in Houston??? Gone, despite having the laws on there side and everyone else being extinct they still could not make it. This was his own testimony in that video. That proves selling this dream of elite contractor does not exist.

On thing for certain is I learned a Ton in Houston, I feel comfortable that people will never be able to pull mis informing major city authority's ever again.
Ron you should consider what I told you on the phone and the 45 minutes of video that Mike H. put up last night on TGS Sgt. Walsh is telling a different story there from what is being said here... but in all fairness I was not there and I havent seen the whole DVD that Mike H. has but I requested it.

Sgt. Walsh says in there that you should belong to your associations and he also makes it clear how him and there staff operate.

Chris is right you probably should close this thread because where going to go round and round like this. There are PWNA Contractors who live in that area and not just Doug and other non org. members so they have just as much right to here whats going on there. 2- Doug is a distributor also. I have his BT200 or whatever that degreaser he sells on my office desk so he is not "Purely" a contractor. I think Doug has all the right intentions but when he makes these blanketed statements and then now you look at what he does for a living besides Contracting your just heading towards the same arguements that have been around for years.

No disrespect Doug.. Keep up the good work but in all fairness try not to drag others down to get where you got to go because it never works and its going to creep up on you to the point where you will one day say "F" it....I'm done cause you will be drained.... Except for Ron of course...His drain just runs and runs and never clogs up So Ron never gets drained...J/K Ron consider what I told ya.....
 
Ron you should consider what I told you on the phone and the 45 minutes of video that Mike H. put up last night on TGS Sgt. Walsh is telling a different story there from what is being said here... but in all fairness I was not there and I havent seen the whole DVD that Mike H. has but I requested it.

Sgt. Walsh says in there that you should belong to your associations and he also makes it clear how him and there staff operate.

Chris is right you probably should close this thread because where going to go round and round like this. There are PWNA Contractors who live in that area and not just Doug and other non org. members so they have just as much right to here whats going on there. 2- Doug is a distributor also. I have his BT200 or whatever that degreaser he sells on my office desk so he is not "Purely" a contractor. I think Doug has all the right intentions but when he makes these blanketed statements and then now you look at what he does for a living besides Contracting your just heading towards the same arguements that have been around for years.

No disrespect Doug.. Keep up the good work but in all fairness try not to drag others down to get where you got to go because it never works and its going to creep up on you to the point where you will one day say "F" it....I'm done cause you will be drained.... Except for Ron of course...His drain just runs and runs and never clogs up So Ron never gets drained...J/K Ron consider what I told ya.....

Oh I'm drained, in the end the truth always prevails.

I'm not sure if your looking at old or new Walsh, post the video here John I'll look at it.

New Walsh is not the same Walsh , he is also taking about violating the ms4 not pressure washing in contained property's. He knows the difference and when garages are compliant he also knows this.
 
Sgt. Walsh was stating would us the Powerwashers drink the water that we send down the storm drains and nobody answers yes but it spills out in the Bayou's and the fish drink it and I guess somewhere it goes far enough the people drink it. So he says why would us the Powerwashers put water down the storm drain that we wouldn't drink yet because of us others will. He also states that none of the Powerwashers would even put there washing water in there own fish tank so what does that tell ya.

This is funny and raises a red flag in my book. Mr. Walsh is using "Environmental Psycho-Bable" let me ask you this.

Would you drink the water out of any storm drain? I mean forget any PW discharge. Think about it.
Where do you think the Cities Waste Water Treatment Effluent water is discharged to, or ends up?????? THE BAYOU !!!!
This is the Killer. Comparing a fish tank to Billions of Gallons of receiving water......Please!

I am for "Compliance"....I am for "Protecting Our Waters".... I am for "Common Sense Approaches To Both"!!!!

I am sick to death of the perceived notion that Pressure Washers are polluters. I sat in horror as I watched the Houston meeting DVD. Pressure Washing Contractors grouped together with people that dump motor oil down drains, motor oil on the ground, Transmission Fluid down drains, paint down drains, massive amounts of trash beside the roads.......Where Did This Come From????.......How Did This Happen????????

The President of the P$na said on TGS that the P$na had been to "Every" Houston meeting, And They Allowed Houston To Think This Of Our Industry???? So I guess the "Clear Voice Of The Industry" means "Hey Regulators It's OK To Group Our Members (And Others) Together With Environmental Criminals Because We Pollute Too".........Really??????????

It was posted all over the boards and the Ex-ED of the P$na said they weren't going to shop the BMP around, yet this is whats happening....WHY????

Search "Pressure Washing BMP's" somewhere at the end of the PDF file you'll find (Not All Of Them, But A Few) 2 names that keep popping up about this. Makes you think.

I Might Be "Some Dumb" But I Ain't "Plum Dumb".
 
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It was posted all over the boards and the Ex-ED of the P$na said they weren't going to shop the BMP around, yet this is whats happening....WHY????

This is the most perplexing of all. This is the kind of thing that causes a loss of ALL credibility, both on a group basis (the org) and an individual basis (Mike H., Robert H. and anyone else individually involved)

I'm a little tired of being lambasted for being "disrespectful" of Robert after "all he's done" for the industry. There's nothing more disrespectful to all of us than making adamant claims that a BMP won't be "shopped" just to make it more palatable while "shopping" them behind the scenes.

This is puzzling. If the eventual goal of all this isn't to incite the cities, states, etc to adopt BMP's that eventually require "certification" that will only be offered by the PW#A then pray tell what is the eventual goal and why spend so much time and money going around the country offering this to municipalities when there is zero public support in the industry?

Outside the PW#A there appears to be NO support. I'm sure that of the 200 or so members of the P#NA there is not 100% support either.

Is this whole thing being pushed through at the whim of the 1-10 people who own/run the PW#A?

If so why?

Maybe they will enlighten us over on the sterilized board.
 
Not technically joining this whole conversation - I just feel the need to put something out there as it relates to what Ron has been accomplishing and what responsibility lies on those contractors who have opened their minds enough to really listen to what he says.

Our industry is not a pollution source - we are a large part of the solution. Our first responsibility is to practice this but equally as important is our responsibility to CONTINUE PASSING THIS EDUCATION ON. Helloo - it needs to be said to those who DON'T KNOW IT YET, ie our own city officials, etc... We can all talk about it all day and night on here but would some of our time not be better spent "preaching" it to those who actually affect our cleaning services? We ALL have to take what we have learned and pass it to the right people.

Just sayin'.
 
Not technically joining this whole conversation - I just feel the need to put something out there as it relates to what Ron has been accomplishing and what responsibility lies on those contractors who have opened their minds enough to really listen to what he says.

Our industry is not a pollution source - we are a large part of the solution. Our first responsibility is to practice this but equally as important is our responsibility to CONTINUE PASSING THIS EDUCATION ON. Helloo - it needs to be said to those who DON'T KNOW IT YET, ie our own city officials, etc... We can all talk about it all day and night on here but would some of our time not be better spent "preaching" it to those who actually affect our cleaning services? We ALL have to take what we have learned and pass it to the right people.

Just sayin'.

That is a good point Celeste.

Maybe there should be a new thread discussing this and have examples of how cleaning contractors are helping the environment so that it can be used in discussions with the city officials, EPA people and for marketing and website info to help educate everyone how we are different and not polluters.

Examples and having things on our websites will help spread the word.
 
The press release was issued by PWNA - without any UAMCC notice or input. The BMP DVD has been available for several years - in fact, a copy was given to every attendee at the 2009 UAMCC Convention.

Did you guys authorize the use of Uamcc at the last Pwna show?


Ron Musgraves text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute
 
Not technically joining this whole conversation - I just feel the need to put something out there as it relates to what Ron has been accomplishing and what responsibility lies on those contractors who have opened their minds enough to really listen to what he says.

Our industry is not a pollution source - we are a large part of the solution. Our first responsibility is to practice this but equally as important is our responsibility to CONTINUE PASSING THIS EDUCATION ON. Helloo - it needs to be said to those who DON'T KNOW IT YET, ie our own city officials, etc... We can all talk about it all day and night on here but would some of our time not be better spent "preaching" it to those who actually affect our cleaning services? We ALL have to take what we have learned and pass it to the right people.

Just sayin'.

Great post , didn't see this before


Ron Musgraves text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute
 
You should have Considered the Source, if you look at old Walsh videos they are tougher. He doesn't sing the same song
Ron you should consider what I told you on the phone and the 45 minutes of video that Mike H. put up last night on TGS Sgt. Walsh is telling a different story there from what is being said here... but in all fairness I was not there and I havent seen the whole DVD that Mike H. has but I requested it.

Sgt. Walsh says in there that you should belong to your associations and he also makes it clear how him and there staff operate.

Chris is right you probably should close this thread because where going to go round and round like this. There are PWNA Contractors who live in that area and not just Doug and other non org. members so they have just as much right to here whats going on there. 2- Doug is a distributor also. I have his BT200 or whatever that degreaser he sells on my office desk so he is not "Purely" a contractor. I think Doug has all the right intentions but when he makes these blanketed statements and then now you look at what he does for a living besides Contracting your just heading towards the same arguements that have been around for years.

No disrespect Doug.. Keep up the good work but in all fairness try not to drag others down to get where you got to go because it never works and its going to creep up on you to the point where you will one day say "F" it....I'm done cause you will be drained.... Except for Ron of course...His drain just runs and runs and never clogs up So Ron never gets drained...J/K Ron consider what I told ya.....
 
Except for Ron of course...His drain just runs and runs and never clogs up So Ron never gets drained...J/K Ron consider what I told ya.....

John My drains Clog, we just have jetting tool on unit. We also watch the drains close, filters surround the drains. Sludge if any builds of prior to the filter never entering the drain.
 
John My drains Clog, we just have jetting tool on unit. We also watch the drains close, filters surround the drains. Sludge if any builds of prior to the filter never entering the drain.
So if you catch the sludge from going down the drain what do your guys do with it? I'm not understanding what your posting here.
 
So if you catch the sludge from going down the drain what do your guys do with it? I'm not understanding what your posting here.

John if you would please pay Tony 450 dollars I'll explain how you prevent this by proper pre-cleaning. Everyone else free
 
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