What about Pulley/belt kits with slides for the engine instead of gearboxes?

makes sense to me. my skid is belt drive and i just ordered a new pump only to find out my old pully was stuck, so I ordered a new pully (and a pully puller for future use) and now I'm not confident i can retighten the belts. my tightening system seems stupid to me...3 bolts going down to the frame and one long bolt with a 90 degree bend going to the side. its never worked right, my belts aren't super tight and my pump is slightly cock-eyed. i'd like to change the whole thing if i could.

I would be interested as well. I have a kohler engine and would like to
make a PW with it, so this diagrams and accessories
kit would be really helpful.

JBurd said:

makes sense to me. my skid is belt drive and i just ordered a new pump only to find out my old pully was stuck, so I ordered a new pully (and a pully puller for future use) and now I'm not confident i can retighten the belts. my tightening system seems stupid to me...3 bolts going down to the frame and one long bolt with a 90 degree bend going to the side. its never worked right, my belts aren't super tight and my pump is slightly cock-eyed. i'd like to change the whole thing if i could.

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If it is cockeyed then the odds are that you are tightening the tensioner then tightening the pump bolts. Tighten the bolt opposite of the crooked corner. Then tighten on the tensioner belt to pull it around straight. Use a framing square to make sure you have the pulley sheaves lined up.

Well , belts are cheaper than worn out gear boxes to replace. And the gear boxes probably steal a little more engine power. I like the idea of adding a generator or even tandem engines with clutches for efficiency/extra power. Just dreaming. The gear boxes fit in tighter spaces and just make it easier to transition or customize your rig. It cost me about $700 to convert from direct drive to gear boxes and took less than an hour or two to get it all set-up. Belt driven units start at $1300 new and I had a huge job I needed three machine running constantly for about three days. It was nice upgrading to the 5.6 gpm too. House washing really rocks now and sometimes I have to be careful and stand back from the house even. You really need a good rinse when using bleach.

I wonder if one of these would fit the standard pump bolts. They are made for NEMA frame electric motors.

Adjustable Steel Motor Bases
Simplify Mounting and Belt Tension Adjustment

One-piece steel mounting bases have single adjusting bolt to position mounted motor for proper belt tension during initial installation and at later maintenance checks. Four motor mounting bolts included. Not for ceiling or sidewall installations. Gray finish.

http://www.dultmeier.com/catpages.asp?page=E0498

Thanks for posting that Tom.

I have seen those before at the local shops but nobody had any for gas engines, just the electric motors.

There are too many variables to come up with a standard template. A 13 hp won't fit where a 18 hp bolts in, a 18hp won't bolt to a 35 hp pattern. A Cat pump won't line up with a General pattern, etc, etc, etc...Buy a base off the shelf predrilled for multiple set ups with a BELT GUARD or do your own engineering for the stuff you own and have a BELT GUARD made for it. I see so many home-rigged belt drive systems without belt guards and I hate it. Missing fingers suck.

Howzit going? Haven't been around for a while, but since I've been getting so many notices in my email box lately, I thought I'd swing by. And since you were talking about gearboxes, I just thought I'd chime in here. As far as horsepower goes, a lot of people don't know this, but belt drives are only capable of delivering about 65% of the power from your engine to your pumps due to slippage and stretching versus gearboxes which transfer about 85% of the engines horsepower to your pump. This can make a big difference in a pumps output. In other words, a 13 hp belt drive would actually only provide about 8.5 hp to the pump versus a 13 hp geardrive which would transfer about 11 hp to the pump. I strictly run gearboxes and have have for over 12 years. I have some gearboxes that are over 8 years old in which I've never done anything but add oil when they are low. When I get a new machine, I get a new gearbox for it and give the old machine and gearbox away to some newbie that can't afford a new machine. Never had one go out on me. Just thought I'd toss that out there since you all mentioned gearboxes. I'm a big fan of them because just as George said, they fit in small spaces. I've bought them for as little as $225 brand new but the most I've ever paid for them was about $275. And you never have to worry about tightening or replacing belts. Allison makes the best in my opinion since they have double bearings. One mechanic (that taught me how to rebuild my pumps) tried to tell me that the vibration from a gearbox would wear out my pump, but that's never happened. The only thing I've ever replaced in my pumps were the packings and that only happens about every 9 months to a year or so. As far as belt drives go, I've rented a couple from time to time when my machine was down (waiting for parts) and I will never use a belt drive again much less buy one. Maybe because it was a rental, their maintenance mechanics may have possibly tuned them down to make them last longer, but they are so weak compared that their 13 hp felt more like an 6 or 7 hp to me. And George, you couldn't be more right about thoroughly rinsing everything whenever you use bleach. It can rust out nails in wood, deteriorate paint, rubber and powder coatings, streak glass and eat up bolts on a screened pool deck frames before you know it. I've never had those problems, but I've seen the results whenever I take over a home from another pressure washing contractor that only knows how to use bleach (or is too cheap to buy housewash) and leaves it on thinking that it'll just make everything whiter. That's why it's important to add a good amount of housewash to your bleach as well because as any chemist will tell you that adding a base (your soap) neutralizes the acid (your bleach) so that it won't be as corrosive on anything that you fail to rinse as thoroughly. Treat every home as your own and you'll never want for another customer. Hoo-weee! I bet I'm gonna hear some crap about belt drives now!! LOL! Heck, somebody's got to stir the pot every now and then to keep the juices flowing in the ole noggin. Have a good one and we wish everyone here and their families a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Be safe out there!

Doing the math, belts lose 3.5917% horsepower. I would say in the real world it is closer to 5 to 10% of the available horsepower. If the gearboxes work for you, then that is great. I would be upset if I had to change packings more than once every 5 years. Knock on wood, I have Udors that have been running 7 years without being opened up. Different strokes for all us folks. Merry Christmas as well.

I didn't know bleach was an acid...I got a lot to rethink...

MrKlean said:

That's why it's important to add a good amount of housewash to your bleach as well because as any chemist will tell you that adding a base (your soap) neutralizes the acid (your bleach) so that it won't be as corrosive on anything that you fail to rinse as thoroughly.

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I could not agree more about the reliability of gear boxes. I love them and they take up so little room compared to belt drive units.

However bleach is also a base not an acid

I think the gear boxes that are available, PA, alison, general - I think they are one in the same, are good at lower hp. With more horsepower they will wreck the key or the keyway - unless they become permanently attached! Why is there not a better locking system? They are a slip-fit, pretty close tolerance, but no positive lock nonetheless.

Maybe have a machine shop cut another keyway on the shaft?

I think that they could keep the shaft cool near the engine when cutting, not sure if having 2 keyways would weaken the shaft to the point where the 2 keyways would shear or damage the shaft? Cutting a keyway into the sheave would not be much of a problem if the machine shop could cut a keyway into the engine shaft I would think.

Maybe that 2nd keyway would help with removal of the sheave later on when needed?

BlueBliss said:

I didn't know bleach was an acid...I got a lot to rethink...

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Bleach is not an acid even though it is a corrosive, look at the ph of Bleach, it is near the high end of the ph scale where acids are on the bottom of the ph scale.

BlueBliss said:

I didn't know bleach was an acid...I got a lot to rethink...

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It isn't. The Ph of bleach is 12. In order for it to be considered an acid, it needs to have a Ph lower then 7. In fact, pure water is more on the acid scale.

.I have had destroyed keys in keyways before, too. Sheared flush with the motor shaft. It was not pretty.

Christopher said:

Maybe have a machine shop cut another keyway on the shaft?

I think that they could keep the shaft cool near the engine when cutting, not sure if having 2 keyways would weaken the shaft to the point where the 2 keyways would shear or damage the shaft? Cutting a keyway into the sheave would not be much of a problem if the machine shop could cut a keyway into the engine shaft I would think.

Maybe that 2nd keyway would help with removal of the sheave later on when needed?

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Yes I had two keyways and 3 gear boxes! Not easy to find a shop to do it and not easy to have to take the engine out and deliver it! They need a set-screw or something. I wonder if there's a gearbox for those tapered shaft engines that go with generators? Those engines can be had for a steal.

I agree, If you are shearing a steel keyway you have other issues to deal with first. Some keys are made from brass and are designed to shear when something locks up. If you shear a steel key you have too much load or either the motor or the pump locked up. There are some pump belt setups that take the same amount of space as a gearbox. I will send a pic later.

810f250 said:

Keys are the sacrificial weak point by design.

Back in the day we had the machine shop make a key from very had steel because we had problems with keys breaking on a particular piece of plant equipment,.... you did not want to see the equipment shaft when the key failed to shear.

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