Hard sale

I have posted this on one other board, but did not get the response that I was hoping for...

Get a call on a deck, clean and seal... 12 by 30 total sq.ft.

I charge about 1.25 or 75.00 labor, that would be a two step on deck, then seal with two coats of wolmans F and P ....

I will charge a extra 100.00 for under estimating, spindels and stairs... So I would give them a bill for 550.00....
These people look at me like I am nuts... They say I am double to what they thought It would cost... I stress the importanse of deck care, the process I will take and the time it will take...
Usually, 1 day to clean, 1 day to seal and 1 day to go back for a follow up...The house is on a golf coarse with other houses being in the 300,000 range...

What am I leaving out to make the sale... I show up in my good truck for bids and wear clean attire... Do alot of smiling, answer questions with questions... What am I doing wrong... I sale alot of jobs, but cannot make a sale on decks...
Please responed...

Thanks

Matt

Matt,

I'd really have to be there to see how you did the sale to give you feedback on your presentation. I know that's not a lot of help.
It sounds like you did the basics correctly (clean truck, clean appearance, smiling, politely answering questions, selling the need of deck care, verbally explaining the work you will do).

Reading your statements I have a few observations & comments:
- "They say I am double to what they thought It would cost."
Sounds like sticker shock - they are not educated on the costs of cleaning and sealings decks. Also sounds like they don't have any estimates to compare against. Sticker shock is one of the hardest objections to overcome. But it can be done. This is when you need to sell the BENEFITS of cleaning & sealing & the quality of your service and the sealer. You can break the cost down to $22/month over a 2 year span and $0.75 per day over a 2 year period. Clean deck maintains the value of their property.

Although I've seen this size job for a lot less, I don't think your price is out of line. (YOU need to know your market area for that.) I've seen cleaning and sealing priced at $0.75 per sq ft ($360 x $0.75=$270) plus sounds like 30 linear feet of railing at $2.50/Ln. Ft. = $75 and sounds like some steps 5 ? at $10 per step = $50 total job cost $395. About 8 hours of actual work $395 / 8 hrs. = $49.38/hr.

What I have found to help me a lot is providing a breakdown of the work process (on paper). I don't provide the cost on these breakdowns but I list all the steps. Details help in the cost justification. Also if there is an error in your calculation of the square footage, the customer can see why you are adjusting your price.
Example:
2-step cleaning / brightening:
12' x 30' pressure treated deck = 360 sq ft.
30 liner feet of railing with 22 (2"x2") spindles = 55 sq ft.
5 steps (10" deep x 36" wide) with 5 (7" high x 36" wide) raisers = 22 sq. ft.
Total area = 437 sq. ft.
24-48 hr drying time before application of sealer.

2 coats of Wolman's F&P sealer xxxx applied to deck, railing and steps (437 total sq. ft.).
(4 hrs min. drying time between coats.)

Follow-up visit on day after application of 2nd coat for inspection & any touch-ups (if necessary).

Manufacturer's warranty on sealer: xxxxx
My Warranty: 1 year for horizontal & 2 year on vertical surfaces.

Licensed and insured.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It also helps if you can review the estimate on or near the deck.
You can point out the size of the job. Point to the steps, the spindles, point out specially dirty areas, etc. Agai, this is also where you sell the BENEFITS.

Another ways this can help is that the cutsomer has all this in writing to review and think over after you leave. They can compare with other estimates and how you prepared your estimate. (Of course this can hurt also, but I've found that it helpes me 80 vs 20.) Estimate preparation and detail can show professionalism. I also attach digital photos to my proposal / bid / estimate which can help bring prespective to the costs.

If the customer has other estimates, ask if you can see them. Compare prices, presentation and make sure you're estimating apples to apples (2 coats vs 2 coats / sq ft. / warranty / sealer brand, etc.)

Photos of jobs you've done helps on credibility. Sounds like you have not sold any deck work so this will not apply to you until you've done at least one job.

There are some good books on sales techniques. If you don't already have one, pick up one or two. One of the best in the business (my opinion) is Zig Ziglar. Paper back about $8-$12. He also has some tapes that you can listen to while your driving.

Keep plugging away. You will get one soon!

Regards,

Paul B. (Mean Papa - Blues Meister)
Genesis Pressure Cleaning Ltd.

ron p

paul i am not trying to a smart a$$ about your post but trying to help. I did not see where you took out for materials. Plastic,tape,sealer,fuel,ect...
Just did'nt want a newbie to get the idea you were putting $49.38 per hour in your pocket.
Also why did you figure 30 ft of railling?
12 ft out 30 ft accross and 12 ft back=56
[take out for the stair opening but there are prob .rails on both sides of the steps]
that would put you closer to $475 and increase the amount of sealer.
now add the cost of sealer to your bid so you can gross $50 per hour and i think mattia is right on.
Tell the customer that you will set the nails and de-fur the deck. Your a restorer not just a painter.
A brush,15 gal of wolmens deck cleaner/brightner,garden hose and some sealer.
This is what a painter would do.[some that is]
Better known as home depot commando's.
My home depot has 5 gal can's of BEHR on sale for $21 right now. Try and tell a customer about your sevice when your tripple the painter's price.
I have the feeling that's what he's up against.

Ron,

You're jumping the gun a bit. Slow down, you're moving a mile a second!

If you read my post again, you'll see I did not write I recommend that I, he or anyone else do the work for $49.38 per hr. or that the amount is strictly profit. My statement was that I have seen it as low as $50/hr. (as a matter of fact I have seen the rate even lower). If you read a bit closer you will also note that I thought he was not out of line with his pricing (but that he really needs to know his area for what the market will bear). The handrail, spindles and steps I was guessing because he did not provide any specifics on it. You are guessing also, I presume. Maybe your guess is better than mine (it's still a guess and it's irrelevant to my post). The numbers were meant only as a demo. I'm sure Matt can count and knows how many steps, linear feet of handrail and number of spindles he bid on. The point I was also trying to make was that he should detail out his work so his estimates can be more accurate along with helping the customer understand the pricing.


Ron, You make some good points about telling the customer that "You will set the nails and de-fur the deck. You're a restorer not just a painter."

He can offer options to the customer also. If you pick so and so sealer it will cost this much and it will last this long and I guarantee it for this long vs. a better product that costs more but lasts longer and has longer guarantee. Again - you are selling BENEFITS not a product. If the customer sees the benefit of a more expensive sealer over another he/she has a better potential of spending the difference.

In order to be competitive in business, you need to determine what your O/H (overhead) and your expenses and how much you put away for maintenance and a list of about a dozen things.
After you have figured this out you need to look at how much you are satisfied making per hour (gross/net). Then you need to see if you can be competitive in your area at those rates. Part of being competitive is reducing your costs be it O/H, or materials / tools / expenses. This is Business 101. If you don't know B-101, chances are you're not going to be very successful.


Regards,

ron p/paul

Sorry i did jump the gun and i forgot that last i tried to help MATT on this, was on another site. I mixed the info and had a little more info then you.
On that other site Matt had a math prob.and thats why i was more intent on the numbers.
He just want's more closeings on his est. and i guess i got caught up on the numbers.
It's more about sales then price.
You can make more money in a 1/2 hour of selling then you can all day with a wand. If you get my meaning?

i am running into the same thing with decks,the customer tell me my price is too high,and when i ask them what they feel the price should be? they say they dont know,but they know my price is too high. even when i ask them what they would feel comfortable paying they still cant pick a number.

also the numbers i come up with i dont know if i want to do the work for that price because i have so many other areas of pressure washing that pays twice the money for less work.

i personally think when it comes to doing work to an existing deck.homeowners have a hard time paying a lot to maintain the item. also most homeowners think you can just wash it off with a garden hose and spray thompsons on it for maintenance

Hey Tim,

How's it going?

I know what you mean about the deck work in Charlotte. I don't even bother with advertising that I do it anymore. If I get a call for a deck job, its from word of mouth or I may have done some other kind of work for a customer, and even then its a matter of how bad I want the job as to whether I do it or not.

To me it's twice as much work and half the money compared to other jobs. Its seems that all I can get for a deck job is $1 a sq. ft. , and that's floor sq. footage especially when you start getting into decks that are 300 sq. ft. or more. Anything smaller and I may be able to slip in an extra $50 or so.

I think it's too many first time homeowners living in $300k homes who can barely afford the house payment. I don't think it is the painters that are low balling the prices. Most guys I know that are painters would charge twice what I would and they would paint the deck, not seal it.

I had a repeat customer call me a few months ago to re-stain their deck. While I was there, she told me the neighbors wanted theirs done. I went over and gave them a price and the lady said do it. The husband called that night and said never mind , they found someone else who was cheaper. Next day, Im at the neighbors house checking things out and putting the furniture back on and this van rolls up next door. This big sweaty fat dude gets out (the boss) and behind him are 2 tattoed hippies with hair to their ass (the labor). The big dude keeps the lady of the house occupied trying to pick out colors while the other 2 soak the deck with clorox and rinse it off. Could'nt have been there more than 30 minutes. You can bet your life that the deck wasnt cleaned and in 3 months it's going to look like crap. So the moral of the story is, I don't waste time trying to explain myself and my work to customers. Let the big sweaty dude have it. I'll stick to washing mud off new houses and driveways for $125 an hour.

Les

Les,
Is there enough business in your area for you to pretty much just clean houses and Driveways? I wish in my area there was but there isn't so I am always doing decks which is not high on my list.

Today I am finishing up on a two tone deck and even though its coming out great I hate doing it but its not like my phone is ringing off the hook for other powerwashing jobs.

I hope to one day just get away from Residential all together except for just powerwashing jobs that don't require and sealing/staining.

Matt,

I won't tell anyone about wood restoration. After spending 7 yrs selling (automotive, mostly GMC & Pontiac), one of the best things I learned was to work for the "be back"

Especially men, ego will prevent a second chance. After they get educated, they will choose the next guy. Pride won't allow them to say (in actions) that "you were right and I was wrong".

Each case may be different, but basically I try to set up a 'study things over' period, such as a couple days. This works particularly well if I am 'studying' also. As ZIG has said, You CAN NOT change some one's mind, but you can help them make a NEW DECISION. After he/she has learned a little, I would make an offer based on a slight change.

ron p/les

be carefull my long haired,tottoo'ed,sweaty 6ft 2 inc pressure washen ass dont go after your house washing jobs next.
Mixing a persons looks with the thought of crappy work. pisses me off. Adding their looks to your post did nothing to help anyone, it just hurt you.

If people want just price and no quality, then so be it. Some people rent houses and some buy.
Why? because it's all they can afford.
What is wrong with making the same amount of money to do crap work as you do with quality work?
I now offer both and stopped giving my work to lowballers. I make the same amount either way and get more work.
How did this get started? Some guy asked me to give him the names of people that just said"that's too much" he would go in on my leed's and get the jobs. Yea it was blow and go but he works everyday.
Customer response,"you get what you pay for, but it's all i could afford right now."
This guy get's all his supplies at home depot and is smart enuff to use Thompson's. That way next year he wont have to do any stripping.
His cleaner pre-carb bleach and TSP[SAFE]
citric acid to brighten[safe]
he works from a mini van and get's paid in cash.[part of his deal]. He has a buzz cut and a USMC tattoo on his arm if this help's.
If you cant beat them join them?

Mat,

I am sure what you are running up against is an uneducated customer. I would recommend finding what other pw's in your area are charging and adjust your pricing from there. You don't want to work for pennies, no one does, but after you explain the benefits of what your work does and what it means to them, you have educated them and can get your price. Your price for my area would be considered low, actually very low. The price for that deck here would be in the neighborhood of 600 to 900, depending on the quality of products used. Unfortunately there is competition everywhere that use non-pdrofessional products. You should sell the fact that you use professional quality products and stand behind the work you do. You will get the jobs over low ballers just because of the quality you perform. Hang in there. As mentioned, take pictures with you. Pictures can speak a 1000 words.

Reed

Les,
nice to hear from you,hope your doing well.

i agree with you on the homeowners living beyond there means nowadays,i even see houses where the paint is blistering and peeling off,with wood decaying,and they wont pay to have it fixed.

" I'll stick to washing mud off new houses and driveways for $125 an hour."
WELL SAID!

well Ron, sorry my post pissed you off. Maybe you are right and I shouldnt have put in a description of what the guys looked like.

I guess my point was that appearance should make a difference, but I guess it does'nt.

I would'nt eat at joint where the cook smelled like he had'nt washed in a week and had a cigarette hanging from his mouth while he flipped the burger. I would'nt let someone clean the inside of my house that came to the door wearing smelly clothes covered in dirt and I could go on and on. In my opinion and remind you , it's mine, it may not be yours, but the way a person presents themselves has in some way got to reflect upon the kind of work ethic they have.

With all that being said, I'm sure a clean cut, brand new suit wearing, shoes polished, and gold on every finger car salesman could rip you off just the same.

Point is the customers I referred to got ripped off soley because they went for the "cheaper deal". I don't do the cheaper deals. I do it right the first time. I for one have some morals and ethics.

Respond if you want but this is all I will say on this matter.

Clean county- I work for new home builders and yes there is enough work to keep me busy year round. I rarely work for residential customers, unless, like I said earlier, I am referred to them by a previous customer or I just happen to be in the right place at the right time.

Les

Les, I am interested in your work with new builders. I clean brick on new homes mainly. Most builders rarely pressure wash their driveways, sidewalks etc. to a REAL CLEAN level. Have wondered how I might 'make a market'. How do you market your services, and how do you price? Do you have a standard charge per home, or by the hour, etc.

Any input would be appreciated.

Bill,

I haven't really had to market my work in quite a while. I have 1 builder I clean for with a total of 8 subdivisions and 3 new ones on the way. I also employ people who clean the interiors of these homes. I have been with this builder for about 4 years now. I also clean for a few custom home builders which only total about 20 houses a year.

As far as pricing, with the larger builder the price is set. They issue me purchase orders whenever they begin construction on a house. The price to pressure wash the house, garage and driveway is $225. The house is vinyl with brick veneers on the front, so all it takes is a good rinsing. The brick masons clean their own brick. I acid wash the concrete. Size of houses range from 2800 to 3500 sq. ft. and take approx. 1 1/2 to 2 hours to complete job. This builder is very picky about the houses being clean. It looks new when the homeowner moves in, meaning no mud stains on the driveway or house. I may wash the same house an average of 3 times before buyer moves in. Re-cleans are $85 and take about 30 minutes.

For the custom homes, each job is different. I charge .17 to .25 per sq. ft. of surface area to clean the brick depending on how old and bad the mortar is. Average price is around $700. Driveway and garage run about .12 to .15 a sq. ft. to acid wash.

hope this helps.

Les

Notice how this thread went from bidding a deck job to pressure washing new houses....lol

Just wanted to thank everyone that posted on this thread...

Yes Les, Sometimes we do get off the subject, But in general we all have the same thing in mind, To make more money in a reasonable ethical way, thru p.w.


Thanks again,

Matt

Keep in mind also the time of year you are pricing things.... Where we are it seems like you'll get a higher price when the demand is higher, early spring for instance. August is vacation and back to school and lots of folks are waiting. We find many PW'ers are:

1. faster to get out and give estimates
2. lower in price

Think about the hotel industry for example. Some seasons the rates are higher....

Beth

Hi Matt,

To succeed in wood care means to educate the customer... thats really all there is to it. There are many of us who "specialize" in wood care alone and I can assure you the money is there... granted your market may bear more or less. The biggest challenge is to set yourself apart from your competition. The vast majority of homeowners feel that deck maintenance consists of bleaching the wood and applying thompsons. YOU need to change this! It is the lack of education on the homeowners part that is most likely causing you problems. If they are not educated to the proper methods they are basing your price on a "bleaching and thompsons". If they do not know the difference between what you offer and their own thoughts of what it takes to restore a deck they're again basing your pricing on "bleaching and thompsons." Seeing how they can do this on their own typically for no more than $200, anything over and above this is percieved as your charge for the labor.

We've went up against the ultimate in low ballers.. try $400 to our $1800 bid...and $7300 to $3200 and we got the jobs all due to our sales pitch and time spent educating the customer.

Follow up calls are also important.. we have closed jobs simply because we made the effort the follow up on a estimate when others had failed to.

If you would like to discuss this further feel free to give me a call.

Greg Rentschler
DeckGuide.com
866-230-2419