Ok Scott-- let's parlay this right into this thread. That's what in the end smart people at least on the common sense level will do.
I just got off the phone with Robert. My life like yours is busy enough. I also talked to Jim Gamble earlier. Like you or at least I think, we don't have time to yap on the phone as much as some others. I wish I did.. But I don't. Robert called me when I was at my daughters dance studio watching her dance with more passion than I ever did anything. I called him back when my daughter was ready to leave. I also called Ron M. Tonight and we talked for a minute. He was with his family and family always comes first.
Take all differences out for a second. Do you think in a positive way Robert Hinderliter has done alot for this Industry? Do you believe he traveled around the country and sat in with regulators? Do you think he's really passionate about all this? Do you think he gives a darn? Do you see what I'm driving at? Do you?
First of all, I really hate when people try and back me into a corner. This is what you are trying to do, and I know what you are up to. Unlike many, I do believe that Robert is passionate about the industry. I fear the people he associates with, because they often represent themselves as something that they are not. Whether it be someone that is in absolute compliance with the CWA, which they are not, or there are others that are trying to portray themselves as garage cleaning experts, when I have hired their former employees that said that they had only cleaned one garage, that was never used. Robert is passionate about this, I just do not agree with the direction. You will note that I stayed away from this discussion, in fact, I only jumped in when YOU questioned my credentials. I have been dealing with the EPA and the CWA as long, or longer then anybody else that is putting themselves into a position of authority. I remember when Robert was selling a 30 foot recovery trailer, that was the latest and greatest 20 years ago, for $30,000. I have been around a long time, and have bought machines from Robert and Delco Cleaning Systems of Fort Worth, (I have to put that in because of legal ramifications for Delco Cleaning Systems of Forth Worth) and Powerwash.com. I have bought a lot of machines from them. Robert can even verify this. I know he gives a darn, because he is a smart man and knows that if a contractor is put out of business because of environmental regulation, it will adversely effect his business.
Now for my opinion and one who knows how to use something I believe to be a benefit to many. I did this in the past and I understand in business it very well is dog eat dog so it can be about the singular as in ones business only. I think you can see beyond that. Most can't but I'll look a the cup as being half filled here instead of half empty. I think you can see beyond that.
So if you can you could still be in a difference of opinion with Robert on the final analysis....but.. You also can see that Robert does care about contractors and he does care about the Environment. You may now have guys with 1-5-10yrs on who say bullshit. They think we should be able to do whatever we want. When I was younger at times I thought the same.. But now where wiser. Youth can have it all but they can't have that. They need to live it first.
So if you think Robert gave a darn and you may have a difference of opinion on the final analysis why is it you and some others who you would think would know this, why can't you build on what Robert has done? Why can't we,us,them go in there agreeing to a point so we can get noticed and be considered respectable enough for the powers to be to take this Industry serious enough?
John, why would you think that I would not want to do that? I just want to take the cleaning regulations to a different level. Unfortunately, you are trying to paint me as being combative. I am not. I never have been. It is not my nature. I just want to get the standards at what I feel to be a truly rational level, so that we can be assured that every contractor is capable of complying with them, and it can be recognized that, much like street sweepers, we are part of the solution. We clean up the oil spills, so that the areas can be properly remediated, instead of allowing an uncontrollable circumstance like a rain event let the water flow to who knows where. It is not a question of who cares more, it is a question of direction, and whether people are truly doing something that is going to benefit the contractors. I honestly believe that Robert wants to benefit the contractor. Unfortunately, the Western Regional Chair of the PWNA environmental committee does not exhibit the same puritanical goals. He is about scaring customers into believing that expensive recovery methods beyond the scope of what is currently required are necessary, and is willing to go into jurisdictions around the western U.S. trying to get his draconian standards in place, purely so that he can charge extreme rates, that offer no value to the customer. I am not a greedy person. You will notice that I have been called a low baller, and someone that charges below market many times, and yet, my profit margin is usually around 40-50% of revenues. I cannot justify a higher margin, and feel I am giving my customer a fair value.
Why Scott is it that we have to crap on each other to try and prove the other guy is an azzhole to the Internet community when guys like you and me know people of power will not give a hoot about that? Look where you are today. Did you pointing out peoples short comings on the net or if you want to say I did the same(I don't believe I did) really get you the respect you have on the outside because of the net?
I don't know John. If you will notice, and you are free to go and research, I seldom if ever attack anyone until they attack me. Often, I will launch an attack with the sole purpose of getting a lie shut down and removed by moderators, because I feel if I don't, they won't touch it, and someone that is not especially astute will start to believe the lies that are being propagated, and portrayed as truth. You have seen it happen. You saw it happen to Ron on PWN. Dan got a burr in his shorts about Ron, and launched a personal vendetta against him. It is still going on in many quarters. and has taken on a life of its' own. I will challenge you, how many times have you seen Ron do a round table, or meet with regulators, such as in Houston, that was not at his personal expense. I know you know that I am cheaper then that. I won't allow someone to pay my way to a round table, because I don't want to be beholden to them. I would rather pay my own way, that way I don't have to represent something that I don't believe in. Ask about San Diego last October. I went at my own expense. I flew in on Thursday morning, and Tony picked me up at the airport, and flew out Thursday afternoon. Ask Jerry how much my visit cost him, ask Ron, or anybody. I even bought my own lunch that day, because then I can say I represent me, and my views.
I have a question to you. This is going to be a hard one, but why do you continually take on the lost puppies, the people that can't seem to get along, such as Jim and the UAMCC in the Carlos' era, trying to promote their ideas? Honestly, I think Carlos had a pure intent, but was being manipulated by people. When I quit, I heard that they were going around and making up lies and rumors about why I quit the org, and I tried to go out causing the least damage possible. It is not my style to cause problems. I want everyone to get along. Unfortunately, I am not one to let someone attack me, and try to ruin my reputation in a simple effort to promote themselves.
Where older now then most here. What do you supposed a real wiseman would do here? I know some of this from experience because in most cases I didn't represent myself as one.
We can argue forever on the net. We can all play keyboard cowboy. But you Scott already know what the real world is and who you had to deal with.... So with that knowledge what do you Scott whether your completely right or slightly wrong do with a person that's been such an innovator and resilient as Robert has been? You tell me.. Tell them... Tell us.
John, everyone has different opinions. What do I do with a Robert, someone that I feel is a decent human being? I would try and get him to see my point of view. If he chooses not to agree with me, that is his choice. That does not mean I have to believe, or do, everything that he says, because we are both reasonable and rational human beings. We just have a different perspective on things. You will notice that, unlike what you are trying to portray, I have never launched a personal attack on Robert, Michael, or any of their associates. In fact, I feel comfortable calling Michael, or Robert, if I was one to burn up the phones, and discussing issues with them. You can ask Michael when the last time I called him was. It was because Jim Gamble was trying to turn a post I made on PWC and make it look like an attack. It wasn't, and Michael understood and agreed with me, from what I understood. I am pretty sure that is a safe bet, because I went back, after my post was removed, and with Michael's permission, and explained myself so that no one would misunderstand.
PWI is your forum more then it is Mine or Roberts and others as well. I know where Ron stands and how he ticks... And Ron from being from Chicago Southside if I remember correctly him and I can piss up a tree and want to kill each other(figure of speech)... But what about you Scott.. Tell us what Scott Stone thinks the right way is to get people of power to listen. Is it really by disproving us who you even said above that most of us have the same goals??
