EPA Enforcement in 2012 Protects Communities From Harmful Pollution

I looked Closer at the one you posted, that Filter is doing a great job. Do you see all the debris thats captured?
Why even if there is and Outfall do you want to go around what was Designed?

810f250 said:
Wanted to share info, contrary to what some may think/believe, understanding/sharing the function of these and similar on property systems is why I am posting my findings.

Spoke with a Howard County Maryland Project Construction Inspector today in person, at a different location other than photoed directly below, as to what the below photoed installation maybe, he mentioned that he does not cover that part of the county but could get the info (which he said he would do), from my description he said it sounded like an infiltration trench. After reading Howard County's website I found this document.

View attachment 22935


I also questioning AHJ on what the installation is in the gas station video, I left a message with Montgomery County asking for a return call.
Click to expand...
 
Ron Musgraves said:

ATTN Robert Please Watch this Video, this can help simplify what you do not understand. Keep in Mind this is a Storm water Engineer with Florida, the EPA and Enforcement both in the room concurred he was correct.

Maybe you can have this in your model so its friendlier to your program.

I do not need any credit for this or any other things I have taught you. Just please start working as a team and implementing them as education process to contractors and others your talking to.

Only if you really want to unite the efforts, if you do not we all are hearing you loud and Clear.
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That is an accurate assessment of what we do. Enviromental compliance is simple, cheap and effective in the areas where the reasonable npdes requirements are in place. We as an industy need to work together to keep the standards simple and reasonable.

The biggest problem I see with these one size fits all BMP's is they don't fit reality. Fleet washing is way different than sidewalk cleaning. Drive throughs and gas stations can be loaded with pollution or not depends on the frequency of cleaning. Again we are the solution not the cause power washers are the pollution control experts.

The hot water argument really is a non factor and should not even be a part of the BMP discussion unless you are spraying directly into a drain for hours on end. If hot water is used the temperature of the water is dramatically reduced once it hits the surface (unless you have 'magic water' that can retain heat like no other) your 180 degree water will be less than 100 degrees well before it reaches a drain 10' away perhaps a bit farther in the south where the surface temp is 1,000,000 degrees. But then it is not a concern because evaporation will eliminate it.
 
Guy Blackmon said:
With all due respect Hr. H...The stories from the 6 Contractors (No Names need to be used) would probably have been more helpful.

"Combined Sewer Systems" are just as they imply, Sewer Systems that combine human waste & storm water that go directly to the treatment plant. This has been found to be an incorrect system because treatment plants can not handle the Sewer & Storm-water flow. When it rains treatment plants are overwhelmed by the combined flow and then "Wash Out" into receiving streams, In most cases sending millions of gallons of raw sewage into waterways that everyone seem to be concerned about. Cities around the country are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to "Split" these systems because of the tremendous damage this is doing to our environment.

Again with all due respect the "Knee Jerk Reaction" in Houston had nothing to do with your comment as to "Why" it happened. The evidence of this is on the CD's that Michael sent me from the meetings there. The years of misinformation Houston received was averted by a few concerned knowledgeable Contractors in just a few months, not years.

Again hyper-linking this article and info into a pressure washing board is wrong IMO, and I really wish you would stop doing this. There would be no problem just posting the article without all the hyperlinks.

Someone researching pressure washing or pollution (Because of your hyperlinks) could come across this and come away thinking that Pressure Washers & Pollution are or go "Hand In Hand", and I'm sure you wouldn't want that kind of misinformation out there for another "Knee Jerk Reaction" from another City like Houston.....would you?

I would ask the moderators to move this thread to a Non-searchable area ASAP.
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Guy, I want to personally thank you. I spent the better part of an hour this morning looking through old posts from about a year and a half ago when these "new" bmp's were discussed. You were a wealth of information then and are a wealth of information now. Your background in wastewater treatment provides a much needed perspective.

Thanks Guy.
 
Ron Musgraves said:
I looked Closer at the one you posted, that Filter is doing a great job. Do you see all the debris thats captured?
Why even if there is and Outfall do you want to go around what was Designed?
Click to expand...


It is a filter indeed, the objective is to come together to present an argument to the AHJ to allow devices like these for use form at least maybe certain types of power wash runoff ,......that may make it to the installation.



Infiltration trench.jpg
 
810f250 said:
Wanted to share info, contrary to what some may think/believe, understanding/sharing the function of these and similar on property systems is why I am posting my findings.

Spoke with a Howard County Maryland Project Construction Inspector today in person, at a different location other than photoed directly below, as to what the below photoed installation maybe, he mentioned that he does not cover that part of the county but could get the info (which he said he would do), from my description he said it sounded like an infiltration trench. After reading Howard County's website I found this document.

View attachment 22935


I also questioning AHJ on what the installation is in the gas station video, I left a message with Montgomery County asking for a return call.
Click to expand...

The only system that will work and be accepted by most AHJs is the "Oil/Grit Separators" , the others will work if precleaning, cold water, no chemicals, and filtration for grit and hydrocarbons.

Except for Phoenix which recently said that they did not have a problem, everything just soaks into their Giant Sand Filter with no off property discharge!
 
Robert Hinderliter said:
The only system that will work and be accepted by most AHJs is the "Oil/Grit Separators" , the others will work if precleaning, cold water, no chemicals, and filtration for grit and hydrocarbons.

Except for Phoenix which recently said that they did not have a problem, everything just soaks into their Giant Sand Filter with no off property discharge!
Click to expand...


Like this
 

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  • Oil & Grit Separator.jpg
    Oil & Grit Separator.jpg
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810f250 said:
It is a filter indeed, the objective is to come together to present an argument to the AHJ to allow devices like these for use form at least maybe certain types of power wash runoff ,......that may make it to the installation.



View attachment 22938
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This is not a filter so much as it is a trough of stone surrounded by filter fabric (non-woven textile). The purpose of the filter fabric is to keep the soil from mixing with the stones and reducing the stone's water holding capacity. The intent is simply to hold water until the soil is able to absorb it. It keeps water on the property which seems to be an overriding consideration here in Maryland.

Any dry sweeping or oil sock used as a part of regular power wash cleaning will certainly extend the life of this drywell as opposed to just allowing rain events to fill it with whatever flotsam and cigarette buts and oil drips typically end up on the fuel pump area slab
 
Timothy said:
This is not a filter so much as it is a trough of stone surrounded by filter fabric (non-woven textile). The purpose of the filter fabric is to keep the soil from mixing with the stones and reducing the stone's water holding capacity. The intent is simply to hold water until the soil is able to absorb it. It keeps water on the property which seems to be an overriding consideration here in Maryland.

Any dry sweeping or oil sock used as a part of regular power wash cleaning will certainly extend the life of this drywell as opposed to just allowing rain events to fill it with whatever flotsam and cigarette buts and oil drips typically end up on the fuel pump area slab
Click to expand...

I works like a filter to an extent Tim.

The water and contaminates enter the system and because of the irregular shapes of the stones this increases surface area and thus contact/adsorption, it also traps particulates between the stones and as the water moves through it peculates into the uncompacted soil below. When the soil is saturated, there is usually an over flows pipe about 12" to 16" that then goes to storm. The 4" port is an observation point/port
 
810f250 said:
I works like a filter to an extent Tim.

The water and contaminates enter the system and because of the irregular shapes of the stones this increases surface area and thus contact/adsorption, it also traps particulates between the stones and as the water moves through it peculates into the uncompacted soil below. When the soil is saturated, there is usually an over flows pipe about 12" to 16" that then goes to storm. The 4" port is an observation point/port
Click to expand...

The structure that you reference is a percolation trench, an infiltration trench or an open top drywell. Neither/none of which are designed to filter. It is not a filter, it is not designed to act as a filter and it should not be used as a filter. Sweep, oil absorb and go to washing but do not confuse infiltration or perc with filtering.

Quick copy and paste from a VA state document.:

Infiltration practices are generally suited for low- to medium-density development (38% to 66%
impervious cover). Specific conditions such as drainage area size and development conditions for
each infiltration practice are discussed in the appropriate section of this Standard.
MINIMUM STANDARD 3.10 CHAPTER 3
3.10 - 4
Planning Considerations
Infiltration facilities are subject to clogging and, therefore, are not recommended for areas where
sediment, grease, or oil loadings may be high. Such areas include roadways, parking lots, car
service facilities, etc. To increase the life expectancy of an infiltration facility, a pretreatment
facility such as a settling basin or “cell”, or additional BMP in series should be used to remove
sediments or other substances from the stormwater runoff before it enters the infiltration facility.

Edit to post illustration found with copied text.

Q+7KDrtyYLKbwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==
 
Timothy said:
The structure that you reference is a percolation trench, an infiltration trench or an open top drywell. Neither/none of which are designed to filter. It is not a filter, it is not designed to act as a filter and it should not be used as a filter. Sweep, oil absorb and go to washing but do not confuse infiltration or perc with filtering.

Quick copy and paste from a VA state document.:

Infiltration practices are generally suited for low- to medium-density development (38% to 66%
impervious cover). Specific conditions such as drainage area size and development conditions for
each infiltration practice are discussed in the appropriate section of this Standard.
MINIMUM STANDARD 3.10 CHAPTER 3
3.10 - 4
Planning Considerations
Infiltration facilities are subject to clogging and, therefore, are not recommended for areas where
sediment, grease, or oil loadings may be high. Such areas include roadways, parking lots, car
service facilities, etc. To increase the life expectancy of an infiltration facility, a pretreatment
facility such as a settling basin or “cell”, or additional BMP in series should be used to remove
sediments or other substances from the stormwater runoff before it enters the infiltration facility.

Edit to post illustration found with copied text.

Q+7KDrtyYLKbwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==
Click to expand...

Tim, not attempting to argue just some discussion........... all I am saying is that it does filter, (particulates/pollutants does get trapped between and on the stones, thats why it gets clogged), if it is purposely designed to do such or is effective at doing such, is another matter.

So most likely the AHJ would probably not recommend we use such for wash water runoff, unless as mentioned in your copied doc a pre-treatment or settling basin is used.

all these systems discussed gave me ideas when building a filter.
 
Link would be Helpful Tim
Timothy said:
The structure that you reference is a percolation trench, an infiltration trench or an open top drywell. Neither/none of which are designed to filter. It is not a filter, it is not designed to act as a filter and it should not be used as a filter. Sweep, oil absorb and go to washing but do not confuse infiltration or perc with filtering.

Quick copy and paste from a VA state document.:

Infiltration practices are generally suited for low- to medium-density development (38% to 66%
impervious cover). Specific conditions such as drainage area size and development conditions for
each infiltration practice are discussed in the appropriate section of this Standard.
MINIMUM STANDARD 3.10 CHAPTER 3
3.10 - 4
Planning Considerations
Infiltration facilities are subject to clogging and, therefore, are not recommended for areas where
sediment, grease, or oil loadings may be high. Such areas include roadways, parking lots, car
service facilities, etc. To increase the life expectancy of an infiltration facility, a pretreatment
facility such as a settling basin or “cell”, or additional BMP in series should be used to remove
sediments or other substances from the stormwater runoff before it enters the infiltration facility.

Edit to post illustration found with copied text.

Q+7KDrtyYLKbwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==
Click to expand...
 
810f250 said:
They are used in commercial situations.
Click to expand...

No doubt, just for confusion I would just like to keep this a commercial Discussion. The reason is the rules for allowing you to wash into a commercial or residential setting are vary different in some states.
 
Ron Musgraves said:
No doubt, just for confusion I would just like to keep this a commercial Discussion. The reason is the rules for allowing you to wash into a commercial or residential setting are vary different in some states.
Click to expand...

Not only commercial and residential setting but sometimes as a private individual vs a contractor/company. Rules may be different
 
just a correction, I am not making anywhere near $100 an hour per man. It is closer to $45 per hour, but for those of you that want to denigrate me for being a lowballer, I am still netting a sufficient amount to keep it interesting. This is an example of true volume pricing.
 
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