PWNA - Who authorized this?

Comes to no surprise .....but i dont see anything Kristopher said that is not true...... God is the one in the business of forgiving sins and repentance .....Not us...holding bitterness hate and anger to the ones who do you wrong it's like a cancer eating you from the inside.
What about all the verses like Matthew 5:44
But I tell you Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you....To me God's Word is all about Love and Grace.
 
Comes to no surprise .....but i dont see anything Kristopher said that is not true...... God is the one in the business of forgiving sins and repentance .....Not us...holding bitterness hate and anger to the ones who do you wrong it's like a cancer eating you from the inside.
What about all the verses like Matthew 5:44
But I tell you Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you....To me God's Word is all about Love and Grace.

Al, please don't ask me to stay out of your threads anymore.

You feel free to forgive all you like. Some of us will put on the armor and fight for truth in your place.

You're welcome.

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Comes to no surprise .....but i dont see anything Kristopher said that is not true...... God is the one in the business of forgiving sins and repentance .....Not us...holding bitterness hate and anger to the ones who do you wrong it's like a cancer eating you from the inside.
What about all the verses like Matthew 5:44
But I tell you Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you....To me God's Word is all about Love and Grace.

Al you can do all that and still fight for what is right....I can guarantee you that myself, Ron, Tony and others hold no bitterness or hate towards anyone, but that does not mean we just roll over and not fight for our families.
 
And Al can ask Carlos how much bitterness and hate I hold. Al doesn't know me at all.

He just lives in a fantasy world that won't exist until this world has ended and truth reigns over evil, greed and deception.


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As long as you accept Jesus Christ as your savior your sins will be forgiven. Jesus didn't die for our sins and put a number up, he simply forgave all of sins no matter what as long or how many as we accepted him in our hearts as our savior. For you to compare our lord and savior to what is happening here is disrespectful and I for one will have no part in it. Maybe you need to learn a little forgiveness.
So you think as long as you except Him as your savior that he will forgive your sins no matter what? And you say that you'll have no part of what? The TRUTH? I think the last exchange you and I had is still on your shoulder. You show attitude towards me for what ever reason. I was merely expressing my opinion of the situation with those folks over at the PWNA and you want to bust my chops about it. Maybe you are the one who needs to learn forgiveness. I never said that I would not forgive them, I said maybe they can't be trusted. Even trust be regained for someone through their actions but forgiveness is a must in life. Imagine what kind of world this would be if no one gave forgiveness. Those that don't learn this concept will soon find out because He is coming soon! I forgave you Kristopher the first time you attacked my thoughts I made public on this board and I do so once again.
 
Kristopher, God never gave any indication within his inspired word that he ever extends forgiveness to those who refuse to admit to their sins.

That is what is lacking here and that is what makes the comparison valid.

When I disrespected Russ and PWI in general and was banned for taking up for Jim Gamble I was wrong. I was operating on false information.

Once I realized I had been wrong I asked them for forgiveness.

At that point I became a candidate for forgiveness based on the biblical example. Prior to that there was no reason to forgive me for anything. I was still lost within my own false premise.

Forgiving me before I had changed my heart about the matter and asked for forgiveness would have been an exercise in futility and would serve to encourage me to continue marching along making similar false assumptions without any fear of the embarrassment that comes with admitting you are wrong.

I have brought up Carlos Gonzales before. I have great respect for Carlos now. He, like all of us, made some mistakes that became public.

Eventually his heart changed and he simply admitted his mistakes and began the humble work of putting his nose to the grindstone to work towards not making those same mistakes again.

Carlos is a perfect example of forgiveness as depicted in the Bible.

If Paul, after the road to Damascus, had refused to admit his guilt in killing Christians do you think for one minute the Christians at Galatia, Ephesus, Corinth or the other cities he wrote to and visited would be required by God to simply forgive and trust him????

That would be ludicrous and go against everything taught in the entire Bible.

Actions have consequences.

Forgiveness comes as the result of a broken and contrite heart, not as a license to keep doing the wrong we are doing.

Forgiveness for the Pwna members will be required, but not till those involved confess and repent, just like the forgiveness for those who crucified him didn't come till they repented in Acts 2:38. Jesus asked God to forgive them. And he did.. about 50 days later when they repented at Pentecost.

One of the most misquoted scriptures in the Bible is when Jesus said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". He forgave them... every one of them who asked for it.

So far no one from the pwna has asked for forgiveness. There is no change of heart. There is no repentance.

The argument that things from the past should be simply forgiven if we call ourselves Christians is a slap in the face to God who gave his only son as the only path to forgiveness for a sin that was committed over 3000 years prior in the garden of eden.

If he expects us to forgive and forget when there is no repentance or acceptance of guilt then perhaps you can ask him when you meet him why he didn't just forgive Satan for deceiving Eve, after all, it was in the past and we should just move on. Lol.

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Thank you!
 
Everybody has the right to choose to forgive or not to forgive, that's their own choice and I'm not debating that at all. I for one due to past events had to learn to forgive not only others, but myself as well. Having all that hate in my heart was making me a bad and sick person. You have to understand that my Jesus and my God forgives all of his children no matter what or how many. God did not distished between who believed him or not would have his love. He simply loves us. I don't think any of will ever fully understand the love that god has for each one of us. But I know as a dad myself that even if my son said he dishoned me I will always love him... ALWAYS. I personally feel Jesus doesn't pick and choose who he forgives and for Rance to say oterwise I felt was disrespectful. If anyone here feels they are not ready to forgive then that is fine, I can totally respect that. Just remember that forgiveness doesn't need to be asked for. Forgiveness can start with you. There are more times then I care to count where people didn't ask me to forgive them, but in my heart I needed to. Not for their benifit, for mine.
 
Everybody has the right to choose to forgive or not to forgive, that's their own choice and I'm not debating that at all. I for one due to past events had to learn to forgive not only others, but myself as well. Having all that hate in my heart was making me a bad and sick person. You have to understand that my Jesus and my God forgives all of his children no matter what or how many. God did not distished between who believed him or not would have his love. He simply loves us. I don't think any of will ever fully understand the love that god has for each one of us. But I know as a dad myself that even if my son said he dishoned me I will always love him... ALWAYS. I personally feel Jesus doesn't pick and choose who he forgives and for Rance to say oterwise I felt was disrespectful. If anyone here feels they are not ready to forgive then that is fine, I can totally respect that. Just remember that forgiveness doesn't need to be asked for. Forgiveness can start with you. There are more times then I care to count where people didn't ask me to forgive them, but in my heart I needed to. Not for their benifit, for mine.

Very well put.....
 
Everybody has the right to choose to forgive or not to forgive, that's their own choice and I'm not debating that at all. I for one due to past events had to learn to forgive not only others, but myself as well. Having all that hate in my heart was making me a bad and sick person. You have to understand that my Jesus and my God forgives all of his children no matter what or how many. God did not distished between who believed him or not would have his love. He simply loves us. I don't think any of will ever fully understand the love that god has for each one of us. But I know as a dad myself that even if my son said he dishoned me I will always love him... ALWAYS. I personally feel Jesus doesn't pick and choose who he forgives and for Rance to say oterwise I felt was disrespectful. If anyone here feels they are not ready to forgive then that is fine, I can totally respect that. Just remember that forgiveness doesn't need to be asked for. Forgiveness can start with you. There are more times then I care to count where people didn't ask me to forgive them, but in my heart I needed to. Not for their benifit, for mine.

Guess I missed the part where Rance said Jesus picks and chooses who he forgives.....
 
Yep pretty much sums it up......

Looks like we need to take a look at Annanias and Saphira. Acts 5:1-11.

And Hebrews 6:4

Jesus didn't call us to change the world by being doormats for the evil and greedy to walk all over. He instructed us to be the salt. To preserve the principles he taught and flavor the world with truth.

I would hate to face him with the few talents I have and try to explain that I hid those talents in the dirt because I was too cowardly to confront liars.





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Nice read Rance. What happens when one denies god, but later returns and asks for forgiveness and asks again to be welcomed into the kingdom? What happens when this is done over and over again? I ask because there are times in my life where I denied god... am I not to be forgiven?
 
Nice read Rance. What happens when one denies god, but later returns and asks for forgiveness and asks again to be welcomed into the kingdom? What happens when this is done over and over again? I ask because there are times in my life where I denied god... am I not to be forgiven?
Hebrews 6:4-7. Does this scripture not answer your Question?
 
I believe God has already forgiven everyone of every sin they could ever commit. Hebrews 9:28 says Christ died "once for all time" for sins. That means your sins were forgiven before you ever committed them. Before you were ever born. God is not up in heaven holding grudges against anyone. 1 John 4:8 says God is love. 1 Corinthians 13:5 says love keeps no record of wrongs. Don't mix up forgiveness with salvation. Forgiveness can't be rejected. You can't stop someone from forgiving you. Salvation, however, can be rejected. You won't receive any of the benefits of your forgiveness from God until you humble yourself and choose to give your life to Him. The Bible teaches us to love our enemies, and not repay evil for evil. It says nothing about waiting for an apology. Just love your enemies, pray for those who spitefully use you, and turn the other cheek.


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Al you can do all that and still fight for what is right....I can guarantee you that myself, Ron, Tony and others hold no bitterness or hate towards anyone, but that does not mean we just roll over and not fight for our families.

With due respect....Pretty big guarantee......even with my sinful nature I have even had resentment, anger, bitterness don't want to use the term hate....but ya probably been guilty of that too.
Gods says once I committed one ....I have committed all.......so I guess I am bout the biggest sinner here
 
Hebrews 6:4-7. Does this scripture not answer your Question?

If it was impossible for him to come back to repentance, then he wouldn't have repented. I don't believe those scriptures mean no one can reject God and then come back. I think it means of you have a TRUE revelation of God, and you know exactly what you are doing. And you truly choose to reject God completely, your heart becomes filled with evil and hate to the point where it is literally impossible for you to have a change of heart. That's what happened to Satan, and I believe that is what those scriptures mean.

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Hebrews 6:4-7. Does this scripture not answer your Question?
Rance
if you like here's a commentary on them verses for understanding....good or bad you can get better understanding.

HEBREWS 6:4-6
Can a person who has been saved lose his salvation? This question has been a perplexing one to many. Maybe you have been questioning the genuineness of your salvation. Are you really saved? Are you really sure?

Consider the alternative, that you could lose your salvation. By virtue of the fact that you could lose it, would mean that keeping salvation would depend upon you efforts or actions. In other words, a person who says that he can lose his salvation for whatever reason, is in reality saying that he is trusting in human works to save himself. Look at Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace (mercy) are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." Salvation is not of works; therefore a person who is trusting in his works is not and will not be saved. What are we saying? Plainly stated: a person who says he can lose his salvation is not saved or he is thoroughly confused and lacks assurance of salvation.

If you are not saved forever, then you are not saved. Let me say it again. If you are not saved forever, then you are not saved.

Have you ever noticed how Bible commentaries skip difficult passages? It can be very frustrating because usually a person buys a commentary to help them to understand a difficult passage. Well, Hebrews 6:4-6 falls into that category. Many times people skip over or ignore Hebrews 6 because it is difficult to understand.

Often Hebrews 6:4-6 is misinterpreted to teach that a saved person can be lost after they have been saved. To teach that a saved person could be lost would mean that you would contradict many clear passages that say the exact opposite.

A good rule to remember when interpreting difficult passages in the Bible is as follows: Whenever you have a passage that is difficult to understand you never allow it to contradict a clear passage on the subject. In other words, you should interpret a difficult passage in the light of clear passage.

You should never contradict a "verily, verily" verse. For example, Jesus said in John 6:47, "Verily, verily I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." When Jesus said "verily, verily", He was saying "truthfully, truthfully". Why? Did Jesus ever lie? The answer is NO! Jesus did not and could not lie because He is God. Titus 1:2 tells us that God cannot lie. Jesus was simply saying, "This is a truth not to be passed over." In John 6:47 we have a truth so important that if a person misses this truth he or she will go to hell for all eternity. The secret of eternal life is no secret. Jesus said plainly, "He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." The only condition to this offer of EVERLASTING LIFE (NOT TEMPORARY LIFE) is BELIEF (TRUSTING IN CHRIST). Don't contradict a clear verse like this one. With this in mind, let's look at Hebrews 6:4-6.

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good Word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6

Notice that the passage is talking about those who are saved. There are five things said about them that demonstrate this truth:

First, "Those who were once enlightened" refers to a saved person or one who has seen "the light" of the Lord Jesus Christ. The same word "enlightened" is translated "illuminated" in Hebrews 10:32 and speaks of a saved individual.

Second, "tasted of the heavenly gift" refers to salvation. Romans 6:23 says, "The gift of God is eternal life." Ephesians 2:8 says that salvation "is the gift of God." The word "tasted" is used in Hebrews 2:9 saying Christ "tasted death for every man." We tasted of the heavenly gift in the same way Christ tasted death--that is, fully and completely.

Third, "We're made partakers of the Holy Ghost." The Bible teaches in Romans 8:9, "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." In other words, if you don't have the Holy Spirit you are not saved. The moment a person trusts Christ as Saviour he or she partakes of the Holy Spirit. If you do not have the Holy Spirit, then you are unsaved.

Fourth, "Tasted the good Word of God." The Bible tells us in I Corinthians 2:14, "But the natural (unsaved) man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." Only the saved man can taste of the Word of God.

Fifth, "The powers of the world to come." Only the born-again man has experienced the power of God. Romans 1:16 says, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth." A person who is born-again has experienced the power of God.

"If they shall fall away" is not referring to salvation but it is referring to the "Christian life"! Hebrews 6:1 tells us that the writer is speaking about things that accompany salvation. Hebrews 6:1 tells us that the writer is talking about maturity in the Christian life and not about how to be saved.

Well, what is Hebrews 6:6 talking about? Verse six is simply stating to Hebrew (Jewish) believers who were used to a yearly sacrifice that it was impossible for them to be saved again because "by ONE offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified [the believers in Christ] (Hebrews 10:14)." Hebrews 6:1 tells us that we cannot "lay again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God."

If a believer falls away from serving the Lord, the procedure is not to become saved again. That is impossible. It is impossible to "renew" them again unto repentance (the change of mind necessary to accept Christ as Saviour).

Hebrews 6:6 warns that if you try to become saved again all you do is crucify Jesus Christ afresh to yourself, thereby shaming Jesus Christ.

The Bible does not teach that one must be born again and again and again, etc. You can only be born-again once, never to be cast out (John 6:37) or lost (John 6:39). Salvation is complete and final. (Read John 5:24).

The solution for a believer fallen away from service to the Lord is to start serving again. We are encouraged by the words of Hebrews 6:10, that "God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love." God will reward faithful service to him. (See I Corinthians 15:58).

God wants us to grow in knowledge of Him, to serve Him and to mature.

Lack in these areas does not mean that we have lost our salvation. That is why it is impossible to get saved again (Hebrews 6:6), because it is impossible to lose salvation (Hebrews 13:5). To try to become saved again (impossible) shames Jesus Christ who has saved us forever (John 6:47; Hebrews 9:12; 10:10; 10:12-14, 17, 18). To serve Him again brings glory and honor to Him (John 12:24), and His blessing and reward is upon us (I Corinthians 15:58).
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