Aftermath of "not shopping" Bmps.

Tony Shelton

BS Detector, Esquire
Today Jill and I went to the stormwater authority meeting.

This was on the Agenda:

11. Discuss NDEP issues and take action as deemed appropriate.

Sounds harmless right?

It turns out this is a direct result of Robert Hinderliter and Jim Gamble's visit to Las Vegas.

Great BMPs that were not even in consideration of being changed for washers is now up on the block for revisions based on the information given by Robert Hinderliter to the regulators.

We will be working with them for sensible regulations.

The problem is they already had sensible regulations that have worked to keep our city within NPDES permit specs for years now.

Robert Hinderliter, Jim Gamble, Michael Hinderliter and the rest of the PWNA brought forth the Ft Worth BMPs, with the addition of their own "hot water is an emulsifier and the same as soap" false claim and convinced the regulators that our BMPs need to be changed.

Meanwhile Ft Worth has gotten rid of the horrible and confusing bmps that Robert throws around as an example and replaced it with a simple document of a few pages that is remarkably similar to the one Las Vegas already has!!!!

http://fortworthtexas.gov/uploadedF...uality/Power_Washer_Permit/PowerWasherBMP.pdf

This is going to cost us time and money to fix this problem and once again convince the local regulators that we are CLEANERS and not POLLUTERS.

We will be taking a tally of the income lost and the time we have to invest in this endeavor and in the end the PWNA will be held responsible.

This is a call to all contractors in Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte and any other city where Robert has gone in and interfered to contact me at tonyshelton@sonitx.com and let me know about what losses you have incurred.

We already know that about 8 out of the ten contractors listed in Atlanta as "environmental" contractors by the city are out of business. One has already reported losses of $100,000 plus. Any of the information that has been collected from your city will be compared to your story for inclusion in this action.

Email me with your story and I will pass it on to the attorney for consideration.

The parties that can be proven to have caused this in Las Vegas are the PWNA and its Board of Directors personally, Robert Hinderliter, Jim Gamble, John Tornebene, Jim Cooney, and Nigel Griffith and Michael Hinderliter via their communication with the regulators.

There may be others but these are known to be personally involved and personally responsible.

Meanwhile Jill and I will be showing the authorities what we, as real contractors, not faux contractors or vendors, do in our line of work to keep the environment clean. We will be showing our methods and the character that most of us share when dealing with our environment.

Hopefully the horrible videos they sent the regulators of Jim Gamble rinsing a garage with nasty dirty water from a fire hydrant that is meant only for fighting fires will not result in a perception that we all clean that way.
 
Nigel? That's surprising.

Every person listed individually were personally on the email threads to the regulators.

Everyone of them had an opportunity and responsibility to stop it at any time.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
 
Sounds like it is time for serious legal action, maybe that would put a damper on their actions and lies.
 
Tony, when do you need our information by??

It has taken us 5 months from the time of the "garage cleaning" event to get to where we are now. But things are rolling along pretty good now. The sooner the better.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
 
This regulator has come to a privately profiting event?

Has anything been done about this?

Is this guy aware this was a private for profit event?

I think that this is important, the federal government has a no travel policy in effect during this time. Did this guy act on his own dime or was he keeping a prior commitment based on being told it was a charity event held by a national association not for profit?

This all matters, I do not want the guys job because enough damage has been caused. Plus this will not in anyway help our cause. I'm just wondering if the parties involved understand how serious this is?

Tony as the president of the national association I request any and all contact be public information and available to all members of our industry and please inform the people whom your communicating with your communication will be shared to show we will have no miss-leading or miss-direction attempts to hide or cover any facts no matter the outcome.

Thanks for the hard work you and Jill are doing for all contractors in this industry. I'm grateful for the efforts here and building a sustainable enviro program that works as non polluters.

I highly recommend and remind contractors the UAmCc has a free membership, join today and help build a future as positive effects on our environment. Not as a polluter!! The industry needs a voice, it's not the people who have been doing this for us over the last 20 years!


Oct event San Diego free free text me for more details !!
 
This regulator has come to a privately profiting event?

Has anything been done about this?

Is this guy aware this was a private for profit event?

I think that this is important, the federal government has a no travel policy in effect during this time. Did this guy act on his own dime or was he keeping a prior commitment based on being told it was a charity event held by a national association not for profit?

This all matters, I do not want the guys job because enough damage has been caused. Plus this will not in anyway help our cause. I'm just wondering if the parties involved understand how serious this is?

Tony as the president of the national association I request any and all contact be public information and available to all members of our industry and please inform the people whom your communicating with your communication will be shared to show we will have no miss-leading or miss-direction attempts to hide or cover any facts no matter the outcome.

Thanks for the hard work you and Jill are doing for all contractors in this industry. I'm grateful for the efforts here and building a sustainable enviro program that works as non polluters.

I highly recommend and remind contractors the UAmCc has a free membership, join today and help build a future as positive effects on our environment. Not as a polluter!! The industry needs a voice, it's not the people who have been doing this for us over the last 20 years!


Oct event San Diego free free text me for more details !!


Ron, the regulator that came to the event was a state regulator, not federal. Also, he made it perfectly clear to Jim and Robert that his attendance would require an open meeting. It was the PWNA, through Jim and Robert, that misled him and made him think he was going to an event for a non-profit powerwashing group. I am certain that if he had any idea that they were using security to keep local contractors from hearing him speak he would have never agreed to come.

These regulators in the state of Nevada and the Las Vegas valley are great people. I have yet to meet a single one that wasn't diligent in doing their job in keeping the environment clean, while also sensitive to the needs of business to be able to operate and provide needed services in a responsible manner.

They are doing the responsible thing in investigating the need to change our BMP's based on the false information fed to them by the PWNA. They wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't look into it after the horrible videos and claims that Jim made based on Jim's own questionable practice of washing garages down with rusty, dirty firefighting water and making it look like thousands of gallons of this mess are commonly used to clean garages and then pumped right out into the storm sewer.

My point was this is all unnecessary and will certainly result in some monetary cost to undo the damage that has been done. If new regulations take effect that put contractors out of work or require costly permits or equipment that was never required before based on the false information the PWNA fed them, then there will be far more monetary costs.

It was a mystery as to how, all the sudden municipalities like Fort Worth, with their "permits" to clean and Houston with their "major offender" nomenclature ever came to be. But now, as documents and correspondence are starting to come to light it's pretty easy to see that the regulators were just doing their jobs based on false information given to them by a few within our own industry. The devastation is incalculable at this point. I can't see how any of the responsible parties sleep at night for all the damage they have done.

Someone asked why?. There are a lot of theories about selling more equipment, making it where only the large contractors and fleet washers are able to work and many others. But the saddest thing of all would be if this whole thing were nothing more than pride.

When Robert put out his BMP's for us to look at we gave him many suggestions. All of which were completely ignored.

When Jim was removed from PWI he made it his quest to damage Ron, Scott and me anyway he could. He started by having an event in Ron and Scott's city and meeting with their officials, then moved on to my city and my officials.

Some on the BOD of the PWNA were elated at the demise of the UAMCC under Carlos. I witnessed the joy first hand. But they were horrified when it was resurrected as a viable non-profit org via Ron.

If Robert has been driven all these years by nothing more than pride and Jim has done what he has done for the past couple of years for nothing more than pride and the PWNA has spearheaded this because of pride and jealousy it will be the saddest and most ruthless commentary on our industry that could ever be written.

Greed, and the desire to sell more equipment would be a more palatable explanation than pride but both are unacceptable and do not represent our industry in the right way.

Regardless of the explanation, 20 years of this kind of damage has been done behind the scenes, with the knowledge of only a few.

We have to work together and we can show that our industry is an important and necessary part of keeping our environment clean. We have to work together and educate newcomers in how to be environmentally responsible regardless of what the laws are. And we need to stand behind our contractors who find themselves victims of deception that threatens their ability to feed their families.
 
Why are they doing this?

I think that's the million dollar question. From my side of the fence this and other actions are leading up to a bigger picture that has yet to be revealed.

Is it about leaving a "Legacy"? Is it about selling equipment? Is it about "posturing" regulations so they benefit their businesses? Is it about "consultation" payments? Dementia? Is it one of these or all of these? Who knows?

If there's nothing to this then why hasn't one of the people involved come forward to explain there're actions and lies?

I agree with Tony, if those listed on the emails knew what was going on and did nothing, they're just as guilty.
 
Ron, the regulator that came to the event was a state regulator, not federal. Also, he made it perfectly clear to Jim and Robert that his attendance would require an open meeting. It was the PWNA, through Jim and Robert, that misled him and made him think he was going to an event for a non-profit powerwashing group. I am certain that if he had any idea that they were using security to keep local contractors from hearing him speak he would have never agreed to come.

These regulators in the state of Nevada and the Las Vegas valley are great people. I have yet to meet a single one that wasn't diligent in doing their job in keeping the environment clean, while also sensitive to the needs of business to be able to operate and provide needed services in a responsible manner.

They are doing the responsible thing in investigating the need to change our BMP's based on the false information fed to them by the PWNA. They wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't look into it after the horrible videos and claims that Jim made based on Jim's own questionable practice of washing garages down with rusty, dirty firefighting water and making it look like thousands of gallons of this mess are commonly used to clean garages and then pumped right out into the storm sewer.

My point was this is all unnecessary and will certainly result in some monetary cost to undo the damage that has been done. If new regulations take effect that put contractors out of work or require costly permits or equipment that was never required before based on the false information the PWNA fed them, then there will be far more monetary costs.

It was a mystery as to how, all the sudden municipalities like Fort Worth, with their "permits" to clean and Houston with their "major offender" nomenclature ever came to be. But now, as documents and correspondence are starting to come to light it's pretty easy to see that the regulators were just doing their jobs based on false information given to them by a few within our own industry. The devastation is incalculable at this point. I can't see how any of the responsible parties sleep at night for all the damage they have done.

Someone asked why?. There are a lot of theories about selling more equipment, making it where only the large contractors and fleet washers are able to work and many others. But the saddest thing of all would be if this whole thing were nothing more than pride.

When Robert put out his BMP's for us to look at we gave him many suggestions. All of which were completely ignored.

When Jim was removed from PWI he made it his quest to damage Ron, Scott and me anyway he could. He started by having an event in Ron and Scott's city and meeting with their officials, then moved on to my city and my officials.

Some on the BOD of the PWNA were elated at the demise of the UAMCC under Carlos. I witnessed the joy first hand. But they were horrified when it was resurrected as a viable non-profit org via Ron.

If Robert has been driven all these years by nothing more than pride and Jim has done what he has done for the past couple of years for nothing more than pride and the PWNA has spearheaded this because of pride and jealousy it will be the saddest and most ruthless commentary on our industry that could ever be written.

Greed, and the desire to sell more equipment would be a more palatable explanation than pride but both are unacceptable and do not represent our industry in the right way.

Regardless of the explanation, 20 years of this kind of damage has been done behind the scenes, with the knowledge of only a few.

We have to work together and we can show that our industry is an important and necessary part of keeping our environment clean. We have to work together and educate newcomers in how to be environmentally responsible regardless of what the laws are. And we need to stand behind our contractors who find themselves victims of deception that threatens their ability to feed their families.

You have written this well!


Oct event San Diego free free text me for more details !!
 
You guys think you have it bad, what I call our local fleetwash is really another company whose owner is the past PWNA President. I can't say for certain that he helped put the restrictions we have now in place, but I know he has given demo's to the city on what he considered proper reclaim and what goes down the drains. I had a job with the city and long story short some clean wash water from a sidewalk got to close to the drain (Their vac truck was late, we got told to start by the city). The lady that was there from the environmental side was worried about the chlorine from the same water we drink entering the storm water sewer.

I have just avoided many of jobs due to our restrictions and not wanting to drop the money on reclaim. I just got a reclaim unit and am almost finished getting it all together, but at what point do you go too far.

I can vent all I want, but you guys down there should no you are not alone with this fight.
 
You guys think you have it bad, what I call our local fleetwash is really another company whose owner is the past PWNA President. I can't say for certain that he helped put the restrictions we have now in place, but I know he has given demo's to the city on what he considered proper reclaim and what goes down the drains. I had a job with the city and long story short some clean wash water from a sidewalk got to close to the drain (Their vac truck was late, we got told to start by the city). The lady that was there from the environmental side was worried about the chlorine from the same water we drink entering the storm water sewer.

I have just avoided many of jobs due to our restrictions and not wanting to drop the money on reclaim. I just got a reclaim unit and am almost finished getting it all together, but at what point do you go too far.

I can vent all I want, but you guys down there should no you are not alone with this fight.

Maybe a request for correspondence from the pwna to your regulators could explain it the way ours did.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
 
You guys think you have it bad, what I call our local fleetwash is really another company whose owner is the past PWNA President. I can't say for certain that he helped put the restrictions we have now in place, but I know he has given demo's to the city on what he considered proper reclaim and what goes down the drains. I had a job with the city and long story short some clean wash water from a sidewalk got to close to the drain (Their vac truck was late, we got told to start by the city). The lady that was there from the environmental side was worried about the chlorine from the same water we drink entering the storm water sewer.

I have just avoided many of jobs due to our restrictions and not wanting to drop the money on reclaim. I just got a reclaim unit and am almost finished getting it all together, but at what point do you go too far.

I can vent all I want, but you guys down there should no you are not alone with this fight.

Talk with Mike Ben and Join the Group www.uamcc.org He is looking for Provence Leaders
 
Just for the record the emails to my regulators started in January of 2013. The "event" was in March. It was around the end of April that we discovered the depth of what they had been doing via their emails.

The following PWNA BOD/Committee/Members were CC'd on the correspondence. Any one of them could have stopped this at any time.

Robert Hinderliter
Michael Hinderliter
Jim Gamble
Jim Cooney
John Tornebene
Nigel Griffith


Emails were sent from the above mentioned PWNA BOD/Committee/Members to ten officials simultaneously.

They were sent to officials in:

Henderson, Nevada
North Las Vegas, Nevada
City of Las Vegas, Nevada
Nevada EPA
and even cc'd to an official in the state of Texas.

Two PWNA representatives from Texas (Robert Hinderliter and Michael Hinderliter),
A PWNA representative from California (Jim Gamble),
A PWNA representative from Arizona (Jim Cooney),
A PWNA representative from New York (John Tornebene)
and a PWNA representative from Maryland (Nigel Griffith)

Sent emails to my local regulators, going so far as to cover the entire metro area (Las Vegas, Henderson, North Las Vegas) and the State EPA, trying to get them to tighten their regulations on any an all contractors within the state of Nevada and especially the Las Vegas metro area.

This information has been in the hands of the PWNA BOD for months now.

Yet not one single person from the PWNA has called, emailed, texted or written anyone out here with an explanation as to why.

Robert and Jim remain as environmental directors. Michael Hinderliter remains on the board of directors and the others are still members of the PWNA.

This shows everyone in our industry who the PWNA belongs to. If you are member of the PWNA at least now you know who the owners are and who your dues are supporting.
 
So, the PWNA instead of helping contractors around the country are lying about this, lying about not shopping BMP's, lying about trying to make things easier for contractors and the PWNA is condoning this type of behavior to try to make things harder for contractors around the country?

Why would the PWNA allow this type of lying and behavior to happen and then to continue?

Why would the PWNA try to make working for a living harder for contractors around the country?

Why would the PWNA try so hard to make regulations harder for contractors around the country?

What benefit would the PWNA have to lie about so much stuff?
 
I think that's the million dollar question. From my side of the fence this and other actions are leading up to a bigger picture that has yet to be revealed.

Is it about leaving a "Legacy"? Is it about selling equipment? Is it about "posturing" regulations so they benefit their businesses? Is it about "consultation" payments? Dementia? Is it one of these or all of these? Who knows?

If there's nothing to this then why hasn't one of the people involved come forward to explain there're actions and lies?

I agree with Tony, if those listed on the emails knew what was going on and did nothing, they're just as guilty.

I agree.
Has anyone happen to reach out to them?
I still can't believe Nigel's involved. I used to shoot the chit with him once a week about our reclaiming process and it was similar to his. Power washing in general, nice guy.
Maybe there was a hidden agenda??
 
I agree.
Has anyone happen to reach out to them?
I still can't believe Nigel's involved. I used to shoot the chit with him once a week about our reclaiming process and it was similar to his. Power washing in general, nice guy.
Maybe there was a hidden agenda??

I spoke with Nigel back about the time the correspondence started. He gave me no indication that they were going to take the path they took.

Nigel and Jim have both been guests at my home. They both know my son who they slandered by claiming he was putting runoff from a drive thru into a storm drain in a YouTube video.

I used to respect Nigel. Frankly I used to respect Robert, Michael and Jim also

It just goes to show how skilled some of these guys are at pretending.

That is why we need to hold them accountable for claims they make rather than just accept them as truth like you can from honest contractors.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
 
Ron, the regulator that came to the event was a state regulator, not federal. Also, he made it perfectly clear to Jim and Robert that his attendance would require an open meeting. It was the PWNA, through Jim and Robert, that misled him and made him think he was going to an event for a non-profit powerwashing group. I am certain that if he had any idea that they were using security to keep local contractors from hearing him speak he would have never agreed to come.

These regulators in the state of Nevada and the Las Vegas valley are great people. I have yet to meet a single one that wasn't diligent in doing their job in keeping the environment clean, while also sensitive to the needs of business to be able to operate and provide needed services in a responsible manner.

They are doing the responsible thing in investigating the need to change our BMP's based on the false information fed to them by the PWNA. They wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't look into it after the horrible videos and claims that Jim made based on Jim's own questionable practice of washing garages down with rusty, dirty firefighting water and making it look like thousands of gallons of this mess are commonly used to clean garages and then pumped right out into the storm sewer.

My point was this is all unnecessary and will certainly result in some monetary cost to undo the damage that has been done. If new regulations take effect that put contractors out of work or require costly permits or equipment that was never required before based on the false information the PWNA fed them, then there will be far more monetary costs.

It was a mystery as to how, all the sudden municipalities like Fort Worth, with their "permits" to clean and Houston with their "major offender" nomenclature ever came to be. But now, as documents and correspondence are starting to come to light it's pretty easy to see that the regulators were just doing their jobs based on false information given to them by a few within our own industry. The devastation is incalculable at this point. I can't see how any of the responsible parties sleep at night for all the damage they have done.

Someone asked why?. There are a lot of theories about selling more equipment, making it where only the large contractors and fleet washers are able to work and many others. But the saddest thing of all would be if this whole thing were nothing more than pride.

When Robert put out his BMP's for us to look at we gave him many suggestions. All of which were completely ignored.

When Jim was removed from PWI he made it his quest to damage Ron, Scott and me anyway he could. He started by having an event in Ron and Scott's city and meeting with their officials, then moved on to my city and my officials.

Some on the BOD of the PWNA were elated at the demise of the UAMCC under Carlos. I witnessed the joy first hand. But they were horrified when it was resurrected as a viable non-profit org via Ron.

If Robert has been driven all these years by nothing more than pride and Jim has done what he has done for the past couple of years for nothing more than pride and the PWNA has spearheaded this because of pride and jealousy it will be the saddest and most ruthless commentary on our industry that could ever be written.

Greed, and the desire to sell more equipment would be a more palatable explanation than pride but both are unacceptable and do not represent our industry in the right way.

Regardless of the explanation, 20 years of this kind of damage has been done behind the scenes, with the knowledge of only a few.

We have to work together and we can show that our industry is an important and necessary part of keeping our environment clean. We have to work together and educate newcomers in how to be environmentally responsible regardless of what the laws are. And we need to stand behind our contractors who find themselves victims of deception that threatens their ability to feed their families.
. .

It can be done.
 
I want to make everyone aware that after all this time John Tornebene has reached out to me. He wants to have a conference call to straighten all this out.

I want to thank John for contacting me. He claims he didn't know anything about the false claims about my son polluting nor about trying to get the regulators to make stricter rules for powerwashers in Nevada.

I guess he's trying to say that while on the committee it was all done behind his back, even though the emails were sent to him too.

I am curious as to how he feels about having come to my state and caused the regulators to take BMP's that everyone here, including the regulators, were perfectly happy with and enticing the regulators to change them in favor of Robert's BMP's that even Fort Worth doesn't use anymore.
 
Back
Top