PWNA caught in Gross Misrepresentation to Industry and Authorities

Tony Shelton

BS Detector, Esquire
A recent post on this and other industry communication boards has caused a lot of stress, especially for power washers in Orange County California.

The PWNA made the claim that they had been contacted to help write BMPs for Orange County. Here is the direct quote from Robert Hinderliter, the Environmental Advocate for the PWNA in regards to the "new" BMP's he posted:

This is the result of on 18 month effort of PWNA in cooperation with Orange County California. This resulting BMPs will have a large effect of the rest of California, then the rest of United States.------and further----------------I wish to express my appreciation to Orange County for cooperation with PWNA in this development process. --------and

Orange County Cosm etic Cleaning BMPs

Guidance for Mobile Detailing, Pressure Washing, Steam Cleaning and Carpet Cleaning
In Cooperation with Power Washers of North America


These can be found here: http://www.powerwashcommunity.com/t...ng-BMPS-for-Public-Comment-until-June-30-2014 and here: http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...ng-BMPS-for-Public-Comment-until-June-30-2014

This entire claim is false. The PWNA was NOT contacted by Orange County to help rewrite BMPs. The PWNA did not help "develop" any new BMPs. There are NO New BMPs in Orange County.

When we first got wind of this post of Robert's we couldn't understand how this happened without the knowledge of local contractors and the UAMCC Environmental team. To find the answer, Ron Musgraves called the head of Orange County's stormwater authority. He called at the first available opportunity on Monday the 19th.

Ron was in for quite a surprise. Mr. Boon, who is the head of all stormwater related BMPs and regulations knew right away who Robert Hinderliter and the PWNA was. He was quite standoffish until Ron explained that he was NOT with the PWNA.

Mr Boon explained to Ron that the PWNA was contacted for one reason, and one reason alone. They were asked if, as an industry org, they could use their influence to entice more contractors to come to a two hour workshop they planned in Orange County for July, similar to other workshops that go on around the country. Mr Boon stated that they usually only get between 5 and 15 contractors to show up and they thought it might bring more contractors to the workshop of an org reached out to them and announced it.

The PWNA was NEVER asked to review BMPs or regulations.

They were NEVER asked to "develop" BMPs.

Further he added that they were happy with the BMPs they have and had NO intention of changing them at all.


Period.

He went on to state that Mr Hinderliter was misrepresenting the PWNA's relationship with Orange County and that he was going to immediately request that they remove the BMPs that they had posted because they are NOTHING like the Orange County BMPs.

Ron asked him if he would do a Radio podcast interview stating those facts. Mr Boon said he didn't have the time to put that on his schedule, but he would be glad to answer email questions.

Ron immediately reached out to the UAMCC BOD with his findings. We determined that it would be in the interest of all involved to have this information reduced to writing so we worked on questions to ask Mr. Boon.

Meanwhile Mr. Boon contacted the PWNA and informed them of the situation. You will see below from his quotes that they KNOW the situation and that they told him they were "diligently" trying to fix the situation.

Well, if you call continuing to spread lies, looks like they did try to "fix" it.

They began by allowing some of the lesser intellectually minded individuals on other boards berate the UAMCC's efforts to get to the bottom of this with no rebuttal.

The PWNA's paid "investigative reporter" Allison Hester, claims she called Orange County and posted this report:

http://www.ecleanmag.com/robert-hin...n-new-proposed-orange-county-bmps-2014-05-20/

She knew the truth when she made this report or she never called Orange County at all. Yet she reports:

As is common practice in these types of situations, Orange County sought the help of a power washing trade association. Their research led them to the Power Washers of North America (PWNA), who in turn appointed PWNA’s Environmental Advocate, Robert Hinderliter, to work with the OC agency as an advisor. A local contractor – Ty Eubanks with South Shore Building Services, Inc., who has over 35 years experience in the industry – was also asked to participate in order to provide the end-user perspective and input on the development of the BMPs.
This past weekend, Robert posted the newly proposed Orange County BMPs on the Internet, announcing that there is a public comment period taking place now through June 30, 2014. (You can find more about this on number 9 below.)


Again the claims are made that the PWNA was requested to "provide guidance" for "new BMPs".

This again, is entirely false.

On other industry boards there are more false claims. Michael Hinderliter, a former? PWNA board member says this: (is there a hint here that he knew the premise was false?)

mhinderliter.JPG

And the other Environmental Director, Jim Gamble tries to make the claim that the UAMCC was upset that the PWNA was contacted to help with BMPs and goes on to show that he knew the chain of events but he took no opportunity to set the record straight.

jimgambleoc.JPG

Three days have passed and yet the PWNA has done nothing to comply with the wishes of Mr. Boon to get the truth out there and remove the deceptive posts made by Mr. Hinderliter.

Yesterday, the UAMCC BOD sent the following email questions to MR. Boon in order to memorialize the conversation he had with Ron:


1) Are you implementing new regulations or BMPs in Orange County this year?

2) Are you writing BMPs in cooperation with the PWNA as claimed in the attached press release from the PWNA? And did you authorize them to make that claim and use your official logo in the claim?

3) For what reason did you contact the PWNA?

4) Is it your practice, as claimed by the PWNA to refuse public comment periods to the point where they have to be "fought for" as the claim here states?: http://www.ecleanmag.com/robert-hin...n-new-proposed-orange-county-bmps-2014-05-20/

5) You stated that you were going to ask that Robert Hinderliter take down the information he had posted regarding this since it went far beyond the request to simply bring contractors to the workshop. Robert has posted the same information in our industry forums. Would you like us to take down those also? We don't usually remove posts, for the sake of transparency, but we are happy to remove inaccurate posts.

Thank you for your time. Our members appreciate your time and look forward to answers that will put their minds at ease.



Here is the response we received from Mr Boon today: (underlinings added by me)

Tony

I am out of the office and replying from my iPhone

Last year we contacted PWNA to see if they could assist with getting us an audience for an informational workshop on water quality protection for pressure washing businesses in Orange County

Our expectations for waste water management are detailed in BMP fact sheet IC24

We are not changing this fact sheet and have no intention oif changing it the foreseeable future

Unfortunately an individual associated with PWNA has badly mid-represented the intentions and actions of a local public agency.

PWNA has assured me that they are now working diligently to correct their mistake

I would be very grateful if you could remove mention of the PWNA document from your website

I will be in my office next Tuesday if you need further information

Thanks

Richard Boon, Chief
Orange County Stormwater Program
(714)955-0670



This clarifies everything he told Ron on the phone.

It also proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the PWNA and by extention, Allison Hester, KNOWS the truth, yet apparently haven't figured out a way to spin this yet and wiggle out of this clear deception they were caught in.


We DESPERATELY need industry leaders who can be trusted. We desperately need leaders who put others before themselves or their own "revenue stream".

At the UAMCC it is our goal to be there for contractors when they need us. It is our goal to help keep food on the table of contractor families.

It is our goal to work WITH our authorities and be a Partner in the community that keeps the community CLEAN,

There is no room in our industry for underhanded techniques, deception or outright lies.

Many times we hear that we need to work "together". Well, I disagree. Two men cannot walk in the same direction if they disagree on the destination. Two can't work together if one is honest and the other is not.

We don't need to work together. We need to use the fine contractors that are out there who are willing to listen to the truth, in spite of personality conflicts, pull up their pants and do the hard work of building trust in our communities. This cannot be done as long as we "work together' with those who would lie to us over and over again.
 
A recent post on this and other industry communication boards has caused a lot of stress, especially for power washers in Orange County California.

The PWNA made the claim that they had been contacted to help write BMPs for Orange County. Here is the direct quote from Robert Hinderliter, the Environmental Advocate for the PWNA in regards to the "new" BMP's he posted:

This is the result of on 18 month effort of PWNA in cooperation with Orange County California. This resulting BMPs will have a large effect of the rest of California, then the rest of United States.------and further----------------I wish to express my appreciation to Orange County for cooperation with PWNA in this development process. --------and

Orange County Cosm etic Cleaning BMPs

Guidance for Mobile Detailing, Pressure Washing, Steam Cleaning and Carpet Cleaning
In Cooperation with Power Washers of North America


These can be found here: http://www.powerwashcommunity.com/t...ng-BMPS-for-Public-Comment-until-June-30-2014 and here: http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...ng-BMPS-for-Public-Comment-until-June-30-2014

This entire claim is false. The PWNA was NOT contacted by Orange County to help rewrite BMPs. The PWNA did not help "develop" any new BMPs. There are NO New BMPs in Orange County.

When we first got wind of this post of Robert's we couldn't understand how this happened without the knowledge of local contractors and the UAMCC Environmental team. To find the answer, Ron Musgraves called the head of Orange County's stormwater authority. He called at the first available opportunity on Monday the 19th.

Ron was in for quite a surprise. Mr. Boon, who is the head of all stormwater related BMPs and regulations knew right away who Robert Hinderliter and the PWNA was. He was quite standoffish until Ron explained that he was NOT with the PWNA.

Mr Boon explained to Ron that the PWNA was contacted for one reason, and one reason alone. They were asked if, as an industry org, they could use their influence to entice more contractors to come to a two hour workshop they planned in Orange County for July, similar to other workshops that go on around the country. Mr Boon stated that they usually only get between 5 and 15 contractors to show up and they thought it might bring more contractors to the workshop of an org reached out to them and announced it.

The PWNA was NEVER asked to review BMPs or regulations.

They were NEVER asked to "develop" BMPs.

Further he added that they were happy with the BMPs they have and had NO intention of changing them at all.


Period.

He went on to state that Mr Hinderliter was misrepresenting the PWNA's relationship with Orange County and that he was going to immediately request that they remove the BMPs that they had posted because they are NOTHING like the Orange County BMPs.

Ron asked him if he would do a Radio podcast interview stating those facts. Mr Boon said he didn't have the time to put that on his schedule, but he would be glad to answer email questions.

Ron immediately reached out to the UAMCC BOD with his findings. We determined that it would be in the interest of all involved to have this information reduced to writing so we worked on questions to ask Mr. Boon.

Meanwhile Mr. Boon contacted the PWNA and informed them of the situation. You will see below from his quotes that they KNOW the situation and that they told him they were "diligently" trying to fix the situation.

Well, if you call continuing to spread lies, looks like they did try to "fix" it.

They began by allowing some of the lesser intellectually minded individuals on other boards berate the UAMCC's efforts to get to the bottom of this with no rebuttal.

The PWNA's paid "investigative reporter" Allison Hester, claims she called Orange County and posted this report:

http://www.ecleanmag.com/robert-hin...n-new-proposed-orange-county-bmps-2014-05-20/

She knew the truth when she made this report or she never called Orange County at all. Yet she reports:

As is common practice in these types of situations, Orange County sought the help of a power washing trade association. Their research led them to the Power Washers of North America (PWNA), who in turn appointed PWNA’s Environmental Advocate, Robert Hinderliter, to work with the OC agency as an advisor. A local contractor – Ty Eubanks with South Shore Building Services, Inc., who has over 35 years experience in the industry – was also asked to participate in order to provide the end-user perspective and input on the development of the BMPs.
This past weekend, Robert posted the newly proposed Orange County BMPs on the Internet, announcing that there is a public comment period taking place now through June 30, 2014. (You can find more about this on number 9 below.)


Again the claims are made that the PWNA was requested to "provide guidance" for "new BMPs".

This again, is entirely false.

On other industry boards there are more false claims. Michael Hinderliter, a former? PWNA board member says this: (is there a hint here that he knew the premise was false?)

View attachment 27982

And the other Environmental Director, Jim Gamble tries to make the claim that the UAMCC was upset that the PWNA was contacted to help with BMPs and goes on to show that he knew the chain of events but he took no opportunity to set the record straight.

View attachment 27983

Three days have passed and yet the PWNA has done nothing to comply with the wishes of Mr. Boon to get the truth out there and remove the deceptive posts made by Mr. Hinderliter.

Yesterday, the UAMCC BOD sent the following email questions to MR. Boon in order to memorialize the conversation he had with Ron:


1) Are you implementing new regulations or BMPs in Orange County this year?

2) Are you writing BMPs in cooperation with the PWNA as claimed in the attached press release from the PWNA? And did you authorize them to make that claim and use your official logo in the claim?

3) For what reason did you contact the PWNA?

4) Is it your practice, as claimed by the PWNA to refuse public comment periods to the point where they have to be "fought for" as the claim here states?: http://www.ecleanmag.com/robert-hin...n-new-proposed-orange-county-bmps-2014-05-20/

5) You stated that you were going to ask that Robert Hinderliter take down the information he had posted regarding this since it went far beyond the request to simply bring contractors to the workshop. Robert has posted the same information in our industry forums. Would you like us to take down those also? We don't usually remove posts, for the sake of transparency, but we are happy to remove inaccurate posts.

Thank you for your time. Our members appreciate your time and look forward to answers that will put their minds at ease.



Here is the response we received from Mr Boon today: (underlinings added by me)

Tony

I am out of the office and replying from my iPhone

Last year we contacted PWNA to see if they could assist with getting us an audience for an informational workshop on water quality protection for pressure washing businesses in Orange County

Our expectations for waste water management are detailed in BMP fact sheet IC24

We are not changing this fact sheet and have no intention oif changing it the foreseeable future

Unfortunately an individual associated with PWNA has badly mid-represented the intentions and actions of a local public agency.

PWNA has assured me that they are now working diligently to correct their mistake

I would be very grateful if you could remove mention of the PWNA document from your website

I will be in my office next Tuesday if you need further information

Thanks

Richard Boon, Chief
Orange County Stormwater Program
(714)955-0670



This clarifies everything he told Ron on the phone.

It also proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the PWNA and by extention, Allison Hester, KNOWS the truth, yet apparently haven't figured out a way to spin this yet and wiggle out of this clear deception they were caught in.


We DESPERATELY need industry leaders who can be trusted. We desperately need leaders who put others before themselves or their own "revenue stream".

At the UAMCC it is our goal to be there for contractors when they need us. It is our goal to help keep food on the table of contractor families.

It is our goal to work WITH our authorities and be a Partner in the community that keeps the community CLEAN,

There is no room in our industry for underhanded techniques, deception or outright lies.

Many times we hear that we need to work "together". Well, I disagree. Two men cannot walk in the same direction if they disagree on the destination. Two can't work together if one is honest and the other is not.

We don't need to work together. We need to use the fine contractors that are out there who are willing to listen to the truth, in spite of personality conflicts, pull up their pants and do the hard work of building trust in our communities. This cannot be done as long as we "work together' with those who would lie to us over and over again.


I contacted the president for Comments he has Declined, the western Directors and Robert Have Failed to return my Calls as well.


I hope that the PWNA Leadership will Fix this in the future. It has gone on Way to long.

Thanks to our team of Enviro Members who keep the industry Safe from others being Bamboozled!!!!!
!
 
Sad day...none of this needed or should have happened. They simply wanted help putting people in seats. What a charade on the part of the PWNA and Robert Hinderliter.

The more I think about it,it's not about selling equipment, it's simply EGO driven. Sad. Just sad.
 
What is really sad is the perception the authorities have of our industry because of this.

Now can we ever expect them to work with us when they simply call asking for help in inviting contractors to a workshop and have an org misuse their logo and lie like this.

They must think we are all like that.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
 
When I remember lines like "More lies from Jim Gamble" written in emails from authorities it makes me cringe to thing what these people must think of us.

And exactly why our Industry is not taken seriously. This has probably set us back another 10 years.


No high 5's here guys.........Sad is all I can say.
 
And exactly why our Industry is not taken seriously. This has probably set us back another 10 years.


No high 5's here guys.........Sad is all I can say.

Set back 20 by this already


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Guy, when this came up it looked like the worst case scenario was that BMPs were changed and rewritten without any notification or input from local contractors.

But what we found redefined "worst case scenario".

The horrible thing the PWNA tried to do to Nevada contractors, combined with their refusal to accept any responsibility for it or take any corrective actions should have been a clue that the worst was yet to come.

In this case it goes very neep.

The PWNA was informed that OC just wanted them to help provide attendees for a 2 hr workshop.

They informed their Environmental Team and the Team, according to Jim Gamble, decided to use a California member, Ty Eubanks, along with Robert Hinderliter to advance the PWNA BMPs.

Ty, is a PWNA member, maybe a board member, I don't know, they removed board members from their web page and haven't posted up minutes in about a year. Being a local contractor it was his responsibility to involve other contractors in any works of this nature, but he chose not to.

Robert made up all this nonsense about "fighting for a comment period" for a non-existent BMP overhaul.

Once he posted it the PWNA was asked to remove it.

They have not done so, nor have they apologized to the industry for this travesty that has broken trust with authorities.

They made it worse by publishing a false release with the help of Allison Hester.

This goes all the way to the top and throughout every leadership position at the PWNA.

It appears that they have taken the Obama stance that they will just do what they please and ignore any and all outside interference with it, no matter how corrupt, no matter how many times they have to lie, no matter how many contractors it hurts.

It's a shame that a few in the industry feel that the industry belongs to them to do with as they please.

It amazed me that so little was done when they did this in Nevada.

Apparently outcries from contractors isn't enough to change this direction.

It's too bad tar and feathering has gone out of vogue.
 
Pathetic , at least.....I'm glad we got it cleared. Being a SoCal contractor and be effected with that nonsense (for no reason) is not pleasant at all. I want to encourage ALL local contractors to come to our FREE workshop in OC , San Diego , Las Vegas...and get knowledge and information about local BMP's...
I hope to see some of you in San Diego , Oct 9 and 10th...Also a BIG Thank you to enviro team !
 
It is just amazing how much they lie, lying like when they banned me for complimenting on what a great contractor and person Scott Stone was. Someone there really did not like that comment so they banned me and then Mike H. sent me a message that "I" removed my links in my signature before I was banned. Just amazing. I was out working and when I came back home I found out that I was banned and that my signature links were removed as well. I guess lying is part of what makes pwna membership, that and mis-direction and trying to spin things in your favor when you are caught lying more. Just amazing what they tried to get away with.

I wonder if any of them even have a conscience at all, with all of this that just happened, I wonder if any of the pwna members have heard of it and are reading the truth now?

I sure hope they do so they know what kind of group they are giving their hard earned money to, not only to be lied to, publicly embarrassed, made fools of, not listened to, not communicated with and are left out in the cold. Wow.

I am glad I never renewed my membership over there.

I wonder what the stormwater person will do if the pwna does not remove their lies and correct the situation? Cities usually have a good legal dept. and lots of money to back them up. Hmmmmmmmm..............
 
"fighting for a comment period" . This statement is beyond crazy and just a straight out lie! How can anyone be so empty and just lie on lie on lie? WoWZA

Thank you UAMCC and the environmental committee for finding out the facts and helping to keep the contractor working.
 
Tony, maybe we need to set up a meeting with OC and introduce the UAMCC to them. Explain to them who we are and what we are about. Give them a brief history of what has been going on over at PWNA for years and about the shenanigans? they've been up to. We need to let them know that we are not affiliated with the PWNA at all.
 
Patience Padawan. One must take small progressive steps to achieve the desired result.
 
Tony, maybe we need to set up a meeting with OC and introduce the UAMCC to them. Explain to them who we are and what we are about. Give them a brief history of what has been going on over at PWNA for years and about the shenanigans? they've been up to. We need to let them know that we are not affiliated with the PWNA at all.

Rance without us even asking we have had past leadership an presidents of the Pwna requesting contacts for oc.

Not clear on there intentions but what ever they want to say to oc I'm sure will be the right things.

Everyone needs to understand this can only end two ways , complete division or we actually start working together for what members of the industry want not one man.


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Ron it seems to me that it's much more than just one man. There are good people over at the PWNA for sure. I can't understand why they stay there. And please don't tell me they know not what is and has been going on, for years. I don't frequent the PWNA BB because I think the leadership's lack of moral standards is intolerable. Even Tony said they removed BOD list from their website and have not published their minute's for over a year. To me that's proof that they're up to no good, as usual. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Ron it seems to me that it's much more than just one man. There are good people over at the PWNA for sure. I can't understand why they stay there. And please don't tell me they know not what is and has been going on, for years. I don't frequent the PWNA BB because I think the leadership's lack of moral standards is intolerable. Even Tony said they removed BOD list from their website and have not published their minute's for over a year. To me that's proof that they're up to no good, as usual. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Rance John Nearon is the current leader along with Paul Horsley , Paul hate towards me is strange. I have alarming texts from him that he will run me out if industry. He only has 7 more days left.

I have despite the way I get treated by fellow members of this industry I attempt to reach out to the leaders to see if it's possible to prevent this type of stuff from happening again.

You see when another org lobbies for tough regs it's our responsibly to our members to fight. Will either keep on fighting or we can come to agreement this stops. It's that simple an those who choose that side good luck.

Unfortunately will be here to help you when an if it's needed. Why becUse we care


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