Stalling Air Pumps

814jeffw

814jeffw

Active member
This is for anyone using air pumps such as All-Flo, Yamada, Versa-Matic etc... These pumps tend to stall at times,..very irritating if it becomes persistent,..these pumps perform very well when operating and are also the most resilient pumps to Sodium Hypochlorite. A big reason these pumps stall is due to water getting into the air motor. After doing some research I found that simply adding a water trap isn't the resolution,..most of the water traps are designed to catch liquid water,..not vapor.
When these traps are placed at the compressor they will not work,..the vapor just passes on through. To solve this you need longer hose between the compressor outlet and the water trap,...the longer hose gives the vapor time to cool and turn into liquid water,..which the trap can now stop from getting to the air motor. I had my pump mounted right next to the compressor with a very short hose,..only about 2',..very neat and compact,..but a TERRIBLE design. Now I have added 50' ft of air hose between outlet and water trap,...And for me,..problem solved!

* My compressor and pump are mounted inside my wash trailer. It is an old Wash On Wheels from a million years ago,..but anyhow,..the tank inside has a big fill top,..so I was actually able to throw the hose down inside the tank for extra cooling,..just left it in a coil and run the ends out of two holes I drilled through the top of the tank and the to the compressor and pump. Confusing I know,Ha,Ha,...

Jeff
 
Great information
 
Hey Andy,..this is actually the condensed version of a "proper" set-up. In the information I found it gets very detailed,..hose elevation, black steel piping, copper piping,..drop legs as moisture traps,..etc,....But I did it fast and easy,..and seems to have solved my issue. These more detailed systems are used for painting, sandblasting,..along with the refrigeration driers.

Jeff
 
Hey Hal,..I have WD-40 thing as well,..I just don't want it to EVER stall. It is recommended to keep the water/oil out of these pumps,..and I sometimes wonder whether or not the oil has any adverse affects on the air pump,..I never noticed any myself,...but anyhow,...I just like things to work the way they're supposed to Ha,Ha,...

Jeff
 
I agree nothing more frustrating than a stall out after restart on a roof line or trying to get a hot mix layer down an you turn the valve an the popcorn stops.
 
Don't forget to drain your tanks after each job too. That extra water in the tank gets into the line/pump very easily. Keep your tank as dry as you can. I get on my guys all the time for not draining the freaking tank when they drop off the rig at the end of the day. Next morning when we meet, I turn the dump valve and get blasted with a ton of water. I am going to start making them stand next to the tank so they get wet when they forget.
 
PeakOfPerfection said:
Don't forget to drain your tanks after each job too. That extra water in the tank gets into the line/pump very easily. Keep your tank as dry as you can. I get on my guys all the time for not draining the freaking tank when they drop off the rig at the end of the day. Next morning when we meet, I turn the dump valve and get blasted with a ton of water. I am going to start making them stand next to the tank so they get wet when they forget.
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You're right,..Water not only gets into the pump,..but also steals air volume,..and with a wheelbarrow compressor like mine,..I don't have volume to spare.

It sounds as though you already have an easy to reach and use valve,..where as most tanks have the petcock under the tank. But for those looking for a simple solution.
"Drain Daily" is made simple by removing the petcock and installing a hose bard and routing it to an easy to reach spot and then putting a brass ball valve for the drain. Very simple to drain after each use by just walking by and opening the ball valve,.. drain only works under pressure,...the ball valve releases the air and the air blows the water out.

Jeff
 
Just a follow up on this,..the air cooler I rigged in,.(50" of air hose immersed in water),....has made a huge difference in my pumps performance in regards to stalling,..basically non-existent. Two stalls since this design change, WD-40 each time and the problem was resolved with lasting.

Not to mention the visible difference I see in the water trap. Before the trap would barely collect any water, because the water was passing right through the trap as VAPOR,...now when I look at the trap it is usually half full or more. So that tells me the cooling hose is working.

*I created another problem for myself as well with trying to make a nice neat design. I designed my top draw with a bulkhead. As we all know these pumps pulsate. My pump started spitting air every few seconds,..Like and explosion of mist in front of your face,Ha,Ha,..anyhow,...turned out the pulsating was cracking the fitting,.I tried another one and in a short period of time did it again,...So now I have a more forgiving design that seems to be working.



** The 3/8" All-Flo I had used before was a better "non-stalling" pump than the 1/2" Versa-Matic I use now,..maybe due to design or due to air requirements??

I'm very happy with the 1/2" Versa-Matic,..but,..there is an issue with these that needs to be addressed. The bolted design I like,..but the bolts coming loose I don't like,..and they come loose every now and then and spray SH all over everything. I've tightened them a few times and now my plan is to Red Loctite them and torque to proper specs.

Jeff
 
814jeffw said:
You're right,..Water not only gets into the pump,..but also steals air volume,..and with a wheelbarrow compressor like mine,..I don't have volume to spare.

It sounds as though you already have an easy to reach and use valve,..where as most tanks have the petcock under the tank. But for those looking for a simple solution.
"Drain Daily" is made simple by removing the petcock and installing a hose bard and routing it to an easy to reach spot and then putting a brass ball valve for the drain. Very simple to drain after each use by just walking by and opening the ball valve,.. drain only works under pressure,...the ball valve releases the air and the air blows the water out.

Jeff
Click to expand...

I have this on our truck...makes draining easy.

 
814jeffw said:
** The 3/8" All-Flo I had used before was a better "non-stalling" pump than the 1/2" Versa-Matic I use now,..maybe due to design or due to air requirements??

I'm very happy with the 1/2" Versa-Matic,..but,..there is an issue with these that needs to be addressed. The bolted design I like,..but the bolts coming loose I don't like,..and they come loose every now and then and spray SH all over everything. I've tightened them a few times and now my plan is to Red Loctite them and torque to proper specs.

Jeff
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It is the air requirements. The bigger the pump, the more CFM it eats and the more water you will make. Ditto with a bigger compressor. This is our pump setup...



That is a 1" pump. 20 CFM Compressor into a dedicated SMC water separator into a Coilhose Regulator/Filter/Separator into a 1" Hastelloy C AODD pump. I use all 1/2" air line which does seem to help. I have a little 3/8" All Flo as well as a 3/4" All Flo and the 3/8" definitely does not water out very often.
 
Hey Kevin,..over on the old RCIA board,..Chris Tucker said the same thing about the compressor size and the needs of the Versa-Matic compared to the All-Flo. It was the Versa-Matic needing more air and making it more susceptible to hot wet air from the compressor trying to keep up. So the All-Flo isn't better than the Versa-Matic,..only better due to the compressor being used is more suited to the All-Flo.

But, as I said,..the stalling issue has been GREATLY reduced with the Versa-Matic due to keeping the water out. The immersed hose works better than I figured it would have.

Jeff
 
Rapid HotClean said:
Kevin, spraying up how far will your 1" pump shoot?
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Depending on the nozzle...60 to 80 feet at max pressure. That is with 3/4" spray hose. I can spray over the peak of a 2 story house if there is no wind. I typically keep the pressure turned down a bit though...no reason to run it at max. We typically run it around 70 PSI and that gets us about 60 ft. If I had a larger (40 CFM) compressor, could probably get into the 100 ft. plus range. Only drawback is that with it wide open on the fresh water rinse-downs, it will burn thru our 60 gal fresh water tank in no time at all.
 
814jeffw said:
Hey Kevin,..over on the old RCIA board,..Chris Tucker said the same thing about the compressor size and the needs of the Versa-Matic compared to the All-Flo. It was the Versa-Matic needing more air and making it more susceptible to hot wet air from the compressor trying to keep up. So the All-Flo isn't better than the Versa-Matic,..only better due to the compressor being used is more suited to the All-Flo.

But, as I said,..the stalling issue has been GREATLY reduced with the Versa-Matic due to keeping the water out. The immersed hose works better than I figured it would have.

Jeff
Click to expand...

The idea is a very good one....just make sure you still deal with the water. You've more effectively condensed it, but it is still in the line and needs to be effectively removed. It isn't a substitute for a good water trap. The bigger the pump and compressor you go with, the more water you will generate as the volume of air increases. This means more water management. This is the drawback. The advantage is WAY WAY more range on your pump and much faster rinse downs. When you deal with very large, steep roofs and the heavy heavy moss like we do, that range and volume comes in real handy. Also, you have to do far less ladder repositioning so your efficiency increases.
 
Hey Kevin,..yes we have a water trap in line as we always have,...it just wasn't working though because of my original design. Water trap is still in the same place but now ends up 1/2-3/4 of the way full,..where as before there was nearly nothing.

* It is a cheap water trap from Tractor Supply,...so I suppose I better quality water trap would trap even more water. But this one at least seems to be working.

As far as compressor size,..the wheelbarrow type I'm using is enough for house roof cleaning. I can shoot 40-50 ft. through 200 feet of 1/2" hose with a 0030 nozzle.

I agree though, a bigger compressor is ideal, but after 18 years of "new tools and ideas",..space is about maxed out, Ha,Ha,..

Jeff
 
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