private information for the true contractor

K

K-P-C

New member
i understand that it is forum etiquette to fill out the signature portion with business name, phone number, etc.
however i was reading a thread on here where there was a member in my same state, so i googled their phone number to see how close they were to me, from the phone number listed in their signature.
The entire first page of google results were filled with this guy asking questions on here, garage journal, contactor talk and various other forums.

In the modern day of googling somebody for reviews (think angies list), 'the power of the review', would a client want to see the contractor asking a million questions on various contractor forums.

I see past what the client might see, i see a contractor looking for advice so the contractor can be better in their field, but to a client, that might be perceived as a contractor that really doesn't know much about their trade.

For that reason, i don't think i'll be filling out my contact information, as even this post right here, i don't want any of my clients googling my phone number and reading this thread.



One thing that I've noticed, is that when searching the power washing industry, nothing is held back. In a way, it shows that the power washing industry is full of nice people willing to share their love of the industry, that can be a good thing, but on the other hand, isn't anyone concerned that publicizing everything, from tips and tricks, to suppliers, to pricing jobs, is that good to have all that information out there?

Here is a simple example, I was on youtube looking up pressure washing channels and stumbled upon Ron Musgraves channel, great channel by the way, lots of information. I don't personally know Ron, never met the guy, seems like a nice guy from his videos, I'll be attending the Atlantic City conference April 2015 so if he is there, I plan to meet him.

Anyway, when viewing his youtube channel, one thing I noticed that concerned me about professional pressure washing, is how he publicly posts videos of him closing deals and how to acquire those deals and property manager leads right on youtube.

If I was some out of work contractor browsing youtube and saw a video of someone closing a thousand dollar job, it'd get me thinking about how I can hack my way into the pressure washing industry.

Look, i like that there are people like Ron Musgraves that puts the secrets out there, but shouldn't there be some way to differentiate between publicly divulging such information and keeping that information to where only the true contractors committed to the industry can view it?

On another site i frequent for a completely different industry totally unrelated to the power washing industry, they have two sections, public and private, the forum webmaster has the private section blocked from search engines, it is something like $35 a year to become a member of the forum to the private section, the private section is where pricing and other non public information is discussed, such as tips & tricks of the industry, questions about sales tactics, questions about fixing a job they screwed up, all of which no contractor would ever want to be seen by the public, specifically their customers.

I bet, that the $35 annual fee for access to the private section of that website, weeds out 99% of DIY'ers or hack contractors from seeing the private information that should only be available to the true contractors.

So as much as I see people like Ron Musgraves helping this industry, striving for education, classes, roundtables, events such as the Atlantic City conference that I'll be attending, I question the tactics of putting the information into a youtube channel where it is seen by everyone.

Where is an acceptable line between public and private information? Where is the line between trying to raise the 'bar' in this industry, but posting on youtube where any bottom feeder can see how to close a job or how to sell a job or how to charge for a job, etc...

I know of someone in the lawn care industry, talk about a industry full of hacks and low ballers. Any out of work guy can pick up a used push mower for $50, string trimmer for $35, or used sears riding tractor for $200 and start mowing grass. My friend who has insurance, workers comp, business license, quality equipment, has to compete with these guys out there with their late 90's s10, push mower, and sears riding tractor, lowing the profits in the industry. Sure that guy isn't going to be bidding on the walgreens but these bottom feeders are taking the residential jobs away from the professionals with their 'race to the bottom' low prices.

As I enter into this pressure washing industry (new to pressure washing, but not at all new to business, self employed for 12+ years), I want to do my part to help make sure this industry doesn't turn into what the lawn care industry has become.

So my small bit of advice to help improve the site, is somehow separate the public from the private, the industry leaders (sorry Ron for putting everythng on you), shouldn't be posting all these trade secrets on places like youtube for everyone to see.

There needs to be a little bit of lock down in place so that the true industry pro's have a place to communicate about secret topics like how to bid a job, what kind of profits were made, how to fix a job they screwed up, etc.. without the public seeing it.

For what it is worth, as I enter this industry, i'm very much committed to education, I already bought into doug ruckers pressure training webinars, i'm attending the Atlantic City conference where i'll learning more about the UAMCC, i'm committed to not being a hack in the industry, but that doesn't mean that for every 1 guy that is trying to go about it the right way, there isn't 10 other people out there needing work that might be coming on here, seeing posts about guys making hundreds if not thousands of dollars a day pressure washing and thinking they are going to jump into getting their own pressure washer and thus lowering the 'standard' in this industry.


___________________
Zambotti Enterprises

7246647064
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Anonymity breeds distrust in my book. I understand your thoughts about clients but if the contractor is willing to risk that in furtherance of his education I applaud them. Education that is openly available to any who seek it will improve the industry as a whole.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Do you really think people searching for "pressure washing" or "window cleaning" are going to search for a phone number of a company that they haven't even found yet?

Me thinks you're overtly paranoid.
 
K-P-C said:
i understand that it is forum etiquette to fill out the signature portion with business name, phone number, etc.
however i was reading a thread on here where there was a member in my same state, so i googled their phone number to see how close they were to me, from the phone number listed in their signature.
The entire first page of google results were filled with this guy asking questions on here, garage journal, contactor talk and various other forums.

In the modern day of googling somebody for reviews (think angies list), 'the power of the review', would a client want to see the contractor asking a million questions on various contractor forums.

I see past what the client might see, i see a contractor looking for advice so the contractor can be better in their field, but to a client, that might be perceived as a contractor that really doesn't know much about their trade.

For that reason, i don't think i'll be filling out my contact information, as even this post right here, i don't want any of my clients googling my phone number and reading this thread.



One thing that I've noticed, is that when searching the power washing industry, nothing is held back. In a way, it shows that the power washing industry is full of nice people willing to share their love of the industry, that can be a good thing, but on the other hand, isn't anyone concerned that publicizing everything, from tips and tricks, to suppliers, to pricing jobs, is that good to have all that information out there?

Here is a simple example, I was on youtube looking up pressure washing channels and stumbled upon Ron Musgraves channel, great channel by the way, lots of information. I don't personally know Ron, never met the guy, seems like a nice guy from his videos, I'll be attending the Atlantic City conference April 2015 so if he is there, I plan to meet him.

Anyway, when viewing his youtube channel, one thing I noticed that concerned me about professional pressure washing, is how he publicly posts videos of him closing deals and how to acquire those deals and property manager leads right on youtube.

If I was some out of work contractor browsing youtube and saw a video of someone closing a thousand dollar job, it'd get me thinking about how I can hack my way into the pressure washing industry.

Look, i like that there are people like Ron Musgraves that puts the secrets out there, but shouldn't there be some way to differentiate between publicly divulging such information and keeping that information to where only the true contractors committed to the industry can view it?

On another site i frequent for a completely different industry totally unrelated to the power washing industry, they have two sections, public and private, the forum webmaster has the private section blocked from search engines, it is something like $35 a year to become a member of the forum to the private section, the private section is where pricing and other non public information is discussed, such as tips & tricks of the industry, questions about sales tactics, questions about fixing a job they screwed up, all of which no contractor would ever want to be seen by the public, specifically their customers.

I bet, that the $35 annual fee for access to the private section of that website, weeds out 99% of DIY'ers or hack contractors from seeing the private information that should only be available to the true contractors.

So as much as I see people like Ron Musgraves helping this industry, striving for education, classes, roundtables, events such as the Atlantic City conference that I'll be attending, I question the tactics of putting the information into a youtube channel where it is seen by everyone.

Where is an acceptable line between public and private information? Where is the line between trying to raise the 'bar' in this industry, but posting on youtube where any bottom feeder can see how to close a job or how to sell a job or how to charge for a job, etc...

I know of someone in the lawn care industry, talk about a industry full of hacks and low ballers. Any out of work guy can pick up a used push mower for $50, string trimmer for $35, or used sears riding tractor for $200 and start mowing grass. My friend who has insurance, workers comp, business license, quality equipment, has to compete with these guys out there with their late 90's s10, push mower, and sears riding tractor, lowing the profits in the industry. Sure that guy isn't going to be bidding on the walgreens but these bottom feeders are taking the residential jobs away from the professionals with their 'race to the bottom' low prices.

As I enter into this pressure washing industry (new to pressure washing, but not at all new to business, self employed for 12+ years), I want to do my part to help make sure this industry doesn't turn into what the lawn care industry has become.

So my small bit of advice to help improve the site, is somehow separate the public from the private, the industry leaders (sorry Ron for putting everythng on you), shouldn't be posting all these trade secrets on places like youtube for everyone to see.

There needs to be a little bit of lock down in place so that the true industry pro's have a place to communicate about secret topics like how to bid a job, what kind of profits were made, how to fix a job they screwed up, etc.. without the public seeing it.

For what it is worth, as I enter this industry, i'm very much committed to education, I already bought into doug ruckers pressure training webinars, i'm attending the Atlantic City conference where i'll learning more about the UAMCC, i'm committed to not being a hack in the industry, but that doesn't mean that for every 1 guy that is trying to go about it the right way, there isn't 10 other people out there needing work that might be coming on here, seeing posts about guys making hundreds if not thousands of dollars a day pressure washing and thinking they are going to jump into getting their own pressure washer and thus lowering the 'standard' in this industry.


___________________
Zambotti Enterprises

7246647064
Click to expand...


Replace the phone with your Facebook Link or the Web page. Its contact and human verification is the reason why we have the rule.

Post your questions in Non searched areas. Alfa Gama or RFP groups.
 
K-P-C said:
i understand that it is forum etiquette to fill out the signature portion with business name, phone number, etc.
however i was reading a thread on here where there was a member in my same state, so i googled their phone number to see how close they were to me, from the phone number listed in their signature.
The entire first page of google results were filled with this guy asking questions on here, garage journal, contactor talk and various other forums.

In the modern day of googling somebody for reviews (think angies list), 'the power of the review', would a client want to see the contractor asking a million questions on various contractor forums.

I see past what the client might see, i see a contractor looking for advice so the contractor can be better in their field, but to a client, that might be perceived as a contractor that really doesn't know much about their trade.

For that reason, i don't think i'll be filling out my contact information, as even this post right here, i don't want any of my clients googling my phone number and reading this thread.



One thing that I've noticed, is that when searching the power washing industry, nothing is held back. In a way, it shows that the power washing industry is full of nice people willing to share their love of the industry, that can be a good thing, but on the other hand, isn't anyone concerned that publicizing everything, from tips and tricks, to suppliers, to pricing jobs, is that good to have all that information out there?

Here is a simple example, I was on youtube looking up pressure washing channels and stumbled upon Ron Musgraves channel, great channel by the way, lots of information. I don't personally know Ron, never met the guy, seems like a nice guy from his videos, I'll be attending the Atlantic City conference April 2015 so if he is there, I plan to meet him.

Anyway, when viewing his youtube channel, one thing I noticed that concerned me about professional pressure washing, is how he publicly posts videos of him closing deals and how to acquire those deals and property manager leads right on youtube.

If I was some out of work contractor browsing youtube and saw a video of someone closing a thousand dollar job, it'd get me thinking about how I can hack my way into the pressure washing industry.

Look, i like that there are people like Ron Musgraves that puts the secrets out there, but shouldn't there be some way to differentiate between publicly divulging such information and keeping that information to where only the true contractors committed to the industry can view it?

On another site i frequent for a completely different industry totally unrelated to the power washing industry, they have two sections, public and private, the forum webmaster has the private section blocked from search engines, it is something like $35 a year to become a member of the forum to the private section, the private section is where pricing and other non public information is discussed, such as tips & tricks of the industry, questions about sales tactics, questions about fixing a job they screwed up, all of which no contractor would ever want to be seen by the public, specifically their customers.

I bet, that the $35 annual fee for access to the private section of that website, weeds out 99% of DIY'ers or hack contractors from seeing the private information that should only be available to the true contractors.

So as much as I see people like Ron Musgraves helping this industry, striving for education, classes, roundtables, events such as the Atlantic City conference that I'll be attending, I question the tactics of putting the information into a youtube channel where it is seen by everyone.

Where is an acceptable line between public and private information? Where is the line between trying to raise the 'bar' in this industry, but posting on youtube where any bottom feeder can see how to close a job or how to sell a job or how to charge for a job, etc...

I know of someone in the lawn care industry, talk about a industry full of hacks and low ballers. Any out of work guy can pick up a used push mower for $50, string trimmer for $35, or used sears riding tractor for $200 and start mowing grass. My friend who has insurance, workers comp, business license, quality equipment, has to compete with these guys out there with their late 90's s10, push mower, and sears riding tractor, lowing the profits in the industry. Sure that guy isn't going to be bidding on the walgreens but these bottom feeders are taking the residential jobs away from the professionals with their 'race to the bottom' low prices.

As I enter into this pressure washing industry (new to pressure washing, but not at all new to business, self employed for 12+ years), I want to do my part to help make sure this industry doesn't turn into what the lawn care industry has become.

So my small bit of advice to help improve the site, is somehow separate the public from the private, the industry leaders (sorry Ron for putting everythng on you), shouldn't be posting all these trade secrets on places like youtube for everyone to see.

There needs to be a little bit of lock down in place so that the true industry pro's have a place to communicate about secret topics like how to bid a job, what kind of profits were made, how to fix a job they screwed up, etc.. without the public seeing it.

For what it is worth, as I enter this industry, i'm very much committed to education, I already bought into doug ruckers pressure training webinars, i'm attending the Atlantic City conference where i'll learning more about the UAMCC, i'm committed to not being a hack in the industry, but that doesn't mean that for every 1 guy that is trying to go about it the right way, there isn't 10 other people out there needing work that might be coming on here, seeing posts about guys making hundreds if not thousands of dollars a day pressure washing and thinking they are going to jump into getting their own pressure washer and thus lowering the 'standard' in this industry.
_________________
Zambotti Enterprises
7246647064
Click to expand...

I believe what you cite is the exception and not the rule

I dont think most contractors are all over forums posting questions that would make them look inadequate

I think the reason for putting your signature on your posts is for verification for who is posting

i agree with Tony Evans- anonymity breeds mistrust
 
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I'm glad to see so many people jumped into comment.
To further comment, Ron to answer your question in line 7, i'm sorry, I'm don't remember the exact source to what led me to this site. When I decided to branch off from my existing business and look into power washing, I've been spending countless hours searching the net for education and resources in this industry. For that reason, i can't remember the exact source for coming across this site. If I didn't come across as appreciative, i'll clarify that right now, I think this site is a huge asset to the power washing industry, as I have spent countless hours searching, reading, and learning.

It isn't that I want to see contractors pulling any smoke and mirrors tactics, i just think that there are people out there that will do research into the contractor they are thinking about choosing. it may be as simple as googling their telephone number. I did google myself, and noticed it leads to my facebook page, a few of my ads on craigslist. As I mentioned in my original post, when i googled someone else, googles first page reply was a lot of the guy asking questions on various forums. Sure, he could bury his questions deeper into the google search results by seo techniques, linking to his website, blogs, youtube videos, but not everyone has the desire to do that. Maybe the guy is busy enough to where he comfortable and doesn't want or need to grow, so all that extra effort into blogs and websites, is just wasted effort. There are a million different angles this could go, and frankly, i'm not at all interested in the nitty gritty. i just think, in my opinion, it would be a better idea to have a public and private section of this forum. A small donation amount, would be money to help pay for the website hosting, and possibly go to other industry benefits. I'm not someone that knows much about organizations, so I don't know how to divide up the money, but any money going to an organization to help with education, training, etc. would be a benefit in my book.

I think that the information is Rons youtube videos is great information, 'for the professional'. I think that information would be great if it was posted into the private section of the forum. I know I am repeating myself, but I just don't think it is a good idea to be posting how to close leads, how much money can be made, etc.. on a public site such as youtube. I agree that education is good to everyone, public (diy'ers) and pro's (contractors), but when it comes to certain things such as how to close a deal, how much money to charge, those topics are not something for the public sector, because as I mentioned in my original post, there is the line between the point of what Ron is trying to do, raise a standard in this industry, and by posting on a public site on how to close a deal, and how much to charge, you might be luring in the wrong type of guy that is out of work, just looking for the get rich quick, hacking it type mentality just to put some quick money in his pocket which is going to lower the standard in the industry.

I'm not backpeddling, because I don't have any regrets with what I originally posted, I do however just want to make sure that my statements aren't taken as if I think Ron is a bad guy, or anything like that. I think what he does is admirable as I do believe his efforts are raising the standard of the industry. It is just that when you are a leader of an organization, some people (myself) might have a difference of opinion on a certain topic. I'm not saying that I could do any better than Ron, I'm not saying anything bad about Ron. I'm just saying that something I feel might want to get thought about, was the idea of posting topics like how to close a job, posting how to charge for jobs, etc... on the public youtube. Also i'm just not keen on the idea that contractors on here do not have a private section where they can talk privately about business. Again, i'm not talking about smoke and mirros, i'm just saying that if a contractor is asking a bunch of questions which are seen by google, and if a client does a google search and sees the contractor asking a bunch of questions, it may be perceived as the contractor not knowing what they are doing in the eyes of the client. I do not believe that is a smoke and mirrors tactic. Face it, people are judgmental. I said in my original post, that I see past the contractor asking questions as not being a educated professional, he might be just looking to become even better in his chosen field, but other people might not see it that way, or frankly, maybe that isn't the image the contractor wants to portray. So what is the contractors option, not ask questions so it doesn't show up on a google search, that doesn't help raise the standard of the industry. I just think, in my opinion, that a private section for 'contractors only' with a small registration fee, would allow contractors to help contractors without the public seeing what is being discussed. This is just my opinion, but i don't think that is a bad thing.

I know I didn't want to repeat myself, and I know that I did, I'm not sure how else to word what I wanted to say. I just type it as it comes to mind, no revisions, no candy coat. Just my ideas and opinions.
 
i'll ad a few more things.

1st, thanks for all the welcomes, i should have put that in post #11, but i got straight into my discussion, and should have said thanks.

There is no certain order, to the below, it is just as i think of things i post:

2nd. Ty you posted There are always 2 sides to the coin. There are a lot of positive aspects of this that you neglected to mention.
it isn't that I didn't mention the flip side of the coin, it is that i'm not seeing the other side of the coin. if you have ideas on the flip side of the coin that i'm not seeing, please post. I by no means feel that i'm 100% right, i am just posting my opinion. if you have an opinion on something i'm not seeing, please post. I'm here to learn from fellow professionals.

3rd. Tony, I can see both sides of what you said, and i agree that anonymity breeds distrust, but it depends on what level you take it. If there is a roundtable of professional house painters, and they are talking about techniques to paint a house, to me, that is professional information, that isn't meant to be shared in the public section. Granted that information isn't going to cause me to want to open a house painting business, because i just don't want to do that type of work, but it might cause people of the general public to want to get into house painting because it might appear to be a simple industry to make quick money, little equipment, paint brush, roller, drop clothes, etc. all of which are very affordable to get started into the industry.
i think that would be harmful to the professional house painting industry if that roundtable information was video recorded and posted on a site such as youtube where (i bet) the vast majority of viewers are diy'ers looking at how they can 'beat the system' and watching a youtube video of professionals giving away trade secrets might do one of two things. 1 cause them to not hire a professional because the professional secrets are now out there for the public to see, and 2. might cause a out of work guy to think that he can buy a roller, brush, drop cloth and now hack his way into the professional house painting industry. Where I see on youtube, videos of a phone call on how to close a deal, how to price, etc.. that is stuff that (in my opinion) shouldn't be posted to the public. that (in my opinion) isn't breeding distrust, that is just information that should only be shared amongst the true professionals in the industry, which is why I think that information should be kept confidential to the true professionals via a paid annual subscription to the site to allow access to the private section. I'm by no means saying that education should only be available to contractors willing to pay a annual fee to gain access to that information, i'm just saying there needs to be a method in place to weed out the out of work guy from seeing how to close a deal and make hundreds or thousands a day, where he may think about going and getting the $299 home depot special pressure washer and hacking it in the industry. This is just my opinion.
I think that education is a great thing, i think educating the professional contractor is even better, I just think that there also needs to be a system in place to protect this industry where contractors can share information to other contractors without that information going public.
If the 'public' wants to know professional information, they should pay for the annual membership. That way, if that public person learns the information from the professionals and then turns around and uses that information to do the job themselves, at least they paid the annual membership where that money spent can go back into the pot to help further this industry.

4th, to comment on Ron's video, you said "i would much rather have a competitor than a hack in my market" "someone that understands his costs and profits" "do you want someone that is going to be building a professional business, professional contractor" don't know if I worded it verbatim, but close enough. Ron, I am 110% agreeing with you. I am right there with you, in that I 110% believe in education. Going back to my first post #1, it isn't that I don't think education is a good thing, it is just that I think that tip and tricks, instruction on how to price jobs, how to close a job, how to get in touch with upper level people of a shopping center, are techniques that are not to be shared amongst the public.
I'm not trying to 'stir the pot' but unless i'm missing something, i don't see how publicizing that information is going to do anything towards raising the 'standard / bar' for his industry. to me it just welcomes in the hacks to show them the quick and easy way to compete in this industry, and if the hacks enter this market via public information, that is going to do nothing but lower the bar. I'm not saying you are a bad guy, i'm not looking to personally stab you, i'm just see a vulnerability in the decision to post the 'to the trade' information so publicly that it might hurt the 'family'
 
Only not embracing and sharing will ultimately hurt your family.

You see I have shared with many, some get what I call overnight success with a few tips. These tips are just that, tips. because they are un-willing to continue to share they get stuck into a false sense of success. Often they try giving others advice when they have not even begun to build a real business.

I taught and trained guys in my own market. I job share and sub work to many in my market. I give every residential customer to a close competitor along with sharing massive info.

You see no one is going to take my customers. My customers are mine and if I loose them it's my fault not a competitor.

When I take and account from someone they better understand it wasn't there's.

Oh your welcome to have and opinion, but I'm afraid if most here agree I would have to call them kettle or pot.

Oh the info share here is bread to make us all stronger and above the rest. But that's only for the guys who really understand the power of knowledge.

My competitor reminded me of a powerful tool, visualization!! Thanks Ty, how many would get it or believe in it if we explained it.


Ron Musgraves
www.uamcc.org
"Sidewalk cleaning"
 
Ron Musgraves said:
Only not embracing and sharing will ultimately hurt your family. - I see your side but shouldn't the information be shared amongst the 'family' and not the 'public'

You see I have shared with many, some get what I call overnight success with a few tips. These tips are just that, tips. because they are un-willing to continue to share they get stuck into a false sense of success. Often they try giving others advice when they have not even begun to build a real business. - is this directed to me that i haven't yet even begun a power wash business but yet i come on here to offer my opinion without experience to give me a leg to stand on? Am I reading this wrong? I'll admit i'm new to power washing, i'm not net to business. this industry seems to be filled with divulging secrets to the public. In other industry it is typical to with-hold information from the public. I'm not saying to with-hold information from the 'family' other professional contractors, because that is what is helping with professional 'to the trade' education and raising the bar, but divulging information to the public, are you onto something new that I'm just totally missing, what is the benefit?

I taught and trained guys in my own market. I job share and sub work to many in my market. I give every residential customer to a close competitor along with sharing massive info. - i understand job sharing, i'm a believer in becoming friends with my competitors, i'm a believer in job sharing, in my current industry, i job share as well, i'm hiring a competitor to do work at my own house on a landscaping job that i'm not capable of handling myself this spring. So it isn't that i'm one of those guys that thinks of competitors as enemy's.

You see no one is going to take my customers. My customers are mine and if I loose them it's my fault not a competitor. - I agree, i'm not concerned about someone taking away my clients, i'm not understanding the benefit or reason for posting 'to the trade' information publicly?

When I take and account from someone they better understand it wasn't there's. - i don't understand the wording here...

Oh your welcome to have and opinion, but I'm afraid if most here agree I would have to call them kettle or pot. - as i repeat, i'm not coming on here just to stir the pot, i'm just talking about an issue, and I feel that as I read your posts, i'm not sure if I'm reading them correctly, but maybe there is a bit of upset that i'm pulling you into the firestorm. I have nothing against you Ron, if you feel otherwise, i'm only using you because you are a big figure in this industry, you are outspoken and put your thoughts out there for everyone. If it was someone else, i'd mention them. I'm not here to stab you, don't know if you feel that way, from the way I read things and from the way you auto updated my signature, filled out my information, name, business name, phone number, i feel that i have reason to believe that you might be upset that I called you out and that you went ahead and put in my information even-though I mentioned in the first post that for the sake of customers doing a goggle search I didn't feel comfortable with filling out the signature, but if it is forum rules, and I have to obey by them, i'll leave the information, it is ok. I'm not trying to hide behind smoke and mirrors. It was a concern of mine to keep information private when having discussions, but the rules are the rules and I'll follow them, no problem.

Ron, you mentioned something earlier about me attending the 'free' atlantic city conference, now I can't find what happened to that post. Was that revised and deleted? I'm not looking to come into this industry, step on toes, stir the hornets nest, look for a free handout. I'm attending the atlantic city conference so that I can meet the professionals, and further learn abut the industry, to better my education and be as good as I can. The cost of the atlantic city conference has nothing to do why i'm attending it.

Oh the info share here is bread to make us all stronger and above the rest. But that's only for the guys who really understand the power of knowledge. - I believe the information shared is bread to make us all stronger, i'm not saying we shouldn't share information, i don't think i remotely ever even hinted in that direction, i'm asking, am I missing something as to why you are comfortable sharing information with your own clients, publicly displaying what i would consider 'to the trade' information on sites such as youtube. Look Ron, i'm not calling you a bad guy, i'm not angry, i'm not stirring the pot. I'm just asking a simple question. How does publicizing 'to the trade' information, help the 'family' raise the standard / bar.

I never never never said anything about not sharing information 'to the trade', i'm only asking what is the reason for sharing the information 'to the public'. You even go to the point of saying that you 'what I read as proudly' share information with your clients. I don't tell my clients where I get mulch, i don't tell clients where I go to the landfill, I don't tell clients anything. I'm the professional, I did the research to find these sources, if I divulge my sources, i give them the opportunity to do it themself. I do not understand what is the benefit.

Sure, some people can say, gee Scott, why are you soooooo concerned about the public finding how much a mcdonalds pays for a wash, it is beyond what is seen at the surface, it is that I do not understand why even post it in the first place?

If you had replied with something like, I only have so many hours in the day, and I didn't have a system in place to privatize that infromation 'to the trade' and my choice was either not post it for fear of the public hacks getting ahold of that information and using it to try to enter the industry, or divulge the information on youtube because at least that way all the industry professionals have the ability to see and learn from it, and that after weighing the options of not disclosing it for fear of the public seeing it or disclosing it so that the professionals can see it, you chose to disclose it so that the professionals can see it, then that would make sense

But from every way I read it, it is something like you either don't care that the public sees it, or that you are proud enough to say that you share massive info with your clients.

For that I'm totally baffled, it just goes against everything that seems normal. I'm here to LEARN. You make it sound like i'm not 'getting it' and i'm saying that i don't understand your reasoning for sharing the massive info with the public. I don't understand. I admit that I don't understand. I'm not telling you to take down your public information, i'm not upset at you, i'm trying to LEARN what is the reasoning. Have you figured out something that I have not. Remember, i'm 110% for sharing information 'to the trade' and 110% for hiding information 'to the public'. That is all that i'm getting at. if I'm wrong, i need to learn why. as I said again and again, i'm not here to just cut a wound, stir the pot, poke the hornets nest, etc... I'm sorry you are the go to guy for me to call out Ron. it is only that you are a big figure in this industry and very outspoken.

My competitor reminded me of a powerful tool, visualization!! Thanks Ty, how many would get it or believe in it if we explained it.


Ron Musgraves
www.uamcc.org
"Sidewalk cleaning"
Click to expand...


For what it is worth, maybe i'm reading this wrong, maybe not, this thread is a little more heated than what I thought when i originally posted. as i've said, i'm not backpeddling, i am not in regret for what i posted, i do just want to make sure that it is clear, i do appreciate the information that is provided and how much is able to be learned, as I do not want to be the hack in the industry, i want to do right as best as I can. I am eagerly looking forward to the conference, and can't wait to meet up with Ron and shake his hand. I'm not an upset person, i'm just looking for reasoning as to why information is so public and that my idea of having a public vs private section with a small annual registration fee for 'to the trade' members wasn't really discussed much by Ron, and there was seemingly more talk about 'how i'm not seeing it' than discussion as to separation between private and 'to the trade' information.
 
If you have ever talked to Ron I depth you'd know his YouTube info only scratches the surface. Only those who put in the work reap the real benefits and they didn't have to pay for access to it. They simply had to be real cleaners serious about implementing the advice.
As Ron said there are private areas of the forum if you are concerned about sharing with others.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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