10 GPM Through 200' x 3/8" Hose

If I may interject a question relating to 10's I just got a 10.8 and ordered 1/2 inch hose as well... Question is. The pump has a 3/8 high pressure side as well as the unloaded. The intake is 1 inch. The 1/2 inch hose also has 3/8 qcs on it.... So is a 1/2 inch pressure hose and a 1 1/4 intake necessary if the pump was designed with smaller intake and outputs?

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dgatton said:
If I may interject a question relating to 10's I just got a 10.8 and ordered 1/2 inch hose as well... Question is. The pump has a 3/8 high pressure side as well as the unloaded. The intake is 1 inch. The 1/2 inch hose also has 3/8 qcs on it.... So is a 1/2 inch pressure hose and a 1 1/4 intake necessary if the pump was designed with smaller intake and outputs?

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Hey David,..what you're talking about is friction loss,..but friction loss comes more from long lengths of hose,...the VERY short couplers and the outlet on the pump itself isn't enough to cause you an issue,..so the the 200" or whatever length of 1/2" hose will perform better than 3/8". I personally don't ever see me going to 1/2" hose,.just too heavy,..but I am certain the 1/2" is better suited to a pump with that output. Hope that answer your question.

From one of my original questions on this topic: You will not lose flow with the smaller 3/8" hose,..but you will lose more PSI than the 1/2" will.

Jeff
 
Thanks Jeff I knew I didn't want 150 ft of 1/2 "

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I know some guys will use 1/2" for most of their hose,..and then use the last 50' of 3/8" for ease of handling. My personal concern is keeping flow over PSI,..but I still don't want to lose too much PSI,..which is why I'm pondering just bolting the 10 GPM to my GX630 rather than buy a GX690 ? I need to be able to run a Whisper Wash Classic for concrete,..and is really the only thing I use any real pressure on,..aside for running rotating nozzle a few times a year for curb paint removal.

I know there are alot of guys who bolt an 8 GPM to a 13 HP,..they keep the flow but lose alot of PSI,...great for certain applications though,..like wood care and house washing.

Jeff
 
Just got a 100 footer of 1/2" and all the fittings. My pump outlet is 1/2", unloader is 1/2", hose reel is 1/2", Going to put 100 of 1/2' followed by 150 of 3/8. Hoping to be at 2200 with my classic. That is perfect, although I am not having any issues getting even the nastiest driveways done with 17-1800 psi now. Trick is hotter mix and dwell time.
 
Ralph Q said:
Just got a 100 footer of 1/2" and all the fittings. My pump outlet is 1/2", unloader is 1/2", hose reel is 1/2", Going to put 100 of 1/2' followed by 150 of 3/8. Hoping to be at 2200 with my classic. That is perfect, although I am not having any issues getting even the nastiest driveways done with 17-1800 psi now. Trick is hotter mix and dwell time.
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Sounds like a gr8 plan Ralph! I'd like to know how that turns out!

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814jeffw said:
I only run a 19" Whisper Wash,..and is what I prefer,..I do 99% residential,..so not really looking to go up in size there. This is really the only place I need any PSI for the most part. Aside from a rotating nozzle once in a great while. What do you guys think of bolting it to the GX 630?

Worse I'd have to do is then buy the gx 690. Which I'm still considering anyhow,Ha,Ha,..


Jeff
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I'm gonna answer this myself,..I think I am going to to as I stated and get the 10 GPM Udor and bolt it to the GX630. Aside from the (seemingly) minor (1.3) HP difference,...Every other spec including: 688CC,..compression 9.3:1 and the torque of the 630 and 690 are the same (35.6) at the same RPM's. And this is where I get confused,Ha,Ha,..According to the formula for finding HP.

HP = (Torque x RPM) / 5252.

35.6 x 3600 /5252= 24 HP ? Which is how it seems most small engines are rated,..without load

35.6 x 2500 / 5252 16HP? But this is how Honda rates theirs from their site,..under load I assume? Either way they are the same?

And using the numbers from each engine in this equation,...These engines are identical in HP,..See the confusion,.at least for me,Ha,Ha,..


Jeff
 
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That is a really interesting question concerning the GX630 vs GX690 engines and water flow. I've got a 630, and have been brainstorming how to set up my rig for next year.

For those who upgraded from 1" to 1.5" feed lines, from 3/8" to 1/2" whip lines from pump to reel, and went from 3/8" to 1/2" hose for all or part of your high pressure hose, what kind of difference did you see or feel?
 
Hey Rick,..I can't answer all those questions from personal experience,.I do run a 1" feed to my 8 GPM and it seems fine. And running 1/2" is I'm sure a big difference,..but not enough for me and most others to warrant the use of heavy 1/2" hose. But some do as Ralph stated,..something like 150' of 1/2" for the flow and 50' of 3/8" for maneuverability.

My current setup is GX630 TSF2021 200' of 3/8" Run a Whisper Wash Classic 19" with (2) 4.5 GPM nozzles. As a whole works very well,..I just know the benefit of flow and is why I'm contemplating 10 GPM.

*Another note on the GX630 and GX690 comparison,..they both have the same bore as well 78 x 72.

Excerpt: The measure of an engine’s performance is torque. Horsepower is an additional number that’s attained by multiplying the torque by the RPMs.

So how does Honda derive at their numbers?


Jeff
 
814jeffw said:
I'm gonna answer this myself,..I think I am going to to as I stated and get the 10 GPM Udor and bolt it to the GX630. Aside from the (seemingly) minor (1.3) HP difference,...Every other spec including: 688CC,..compression 9.3:1 and the torque of the 630 and 690 are the same (35.6) at the same RPM's. And this is where I get confused,Ha,Ha,..According to the formula for finding HP.

HP = (Torque x RPM) / 5252.

35.6 x 3600 /5252= 24 HP ? Which is how it seems most small engines are rated,..without load

35.6 x 2500 / 5252 16HP? But this is how Honda rates theirs from their site,..under load I assume? Either way they are the same?

And using the numbers from each engine in this equation,...These engines are identical in HP,..See the confusion,.at least for me,Ha,Ha,..


Jeff
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That confused me too Jeff. The reason I bought the GX630 is because my original 10 gpm setup had a 1" shaft on it, because of the predator motor I had at first. For some reason I gravitate towards the GX690. Maybe because in my mind it is a bigger engine. But I have heard people say they are exactly the same. The only thing I don't like about them, is the shaft size.
 
Thanks Ralph,..I am trying hard to see where the difference is,..I mean aside from the shaft size. At first I thought MAYBE it was the shaft size that gives it more HP,..due to possibly more torque? But the numbers say otherwise. The only variance in the torque numbers is from a couple other sites that claim the GX630 delivers 35.2,..rather 35.6,..But Hondas own site shows them as the same. Even if they are that close,..they are basically the same at the increment.


The shaft size is about the only difference I can see,..I mean,.when I see the bore and stroke the same and compression the same and the torque and RPM,. the same weight, same ignition, same air cleaner etc, etc,...I am loosely assuming these engines are the same. I looked up the piston number for each and they are identical. Now,..I'm not a motor head,.but I can recognize like numbers all day long.


Here's the thing,..I want to go to 10 GPM with performance,..if the shaft size was the same I'd simply buy the Udor 10 GPM with gearbox and try it out,..but,..with them being different I don't want to buy the pump with the 1" gearbox and then not be able to simply buy the larger engine and swap it out. That's my dilemma. But,..now that I'm looking into this it's getting more interesting just to find out what actually makes them different in HP range?

I have no problem buying the larger engine,.but I already have the 630,.and at $1500 with the muffler for a new 690,.I want to know I'm gaining in performance.

I think the 630 660 690 are based off the same raw design,..if there is an actual HP difference it must be coming from a larger jetted carburetor or something to do with air intake? Otherwise I think they are the same?

Glad it's only December,Ha,Ha,..

Jeff
 
Some of the differences with the engines is just the size of the crankshaft. Example, all gravely 800-8000 series four wheel tractors are gear driven transmissions. The main drive gear has a 1-1/8" bore. You can't adapt a 630 to the transmission however, you can adapt a 690 to it.

Mike
 
Jeff, I would call Russ at Southside equipment and talk to him and see what he says.

My cold water pressure pro came with a 20hp Honda and back then if I wanted 3500psi it would have come with the 24hp Honda which I think was the 690 engine which had a little more power.

Since then they changed how they measure the hp and torque so most engine companies are not really saying hp as much as they are saying the cc size of the engine.

Russ had told me for the extra 500psi at 8gpm I would need the extra 4hp to do it, looking back I wish I would have spent the extra money because sometimes I run lots of pressure hose and it would be nice to not lose as much pressure on some jobs.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks Christopher,..but I am going by the numbers,. I would like to see some actual data that shows why they are different not just someone telling me they are different because ones a 690 and the other is a 630. I'm a numbers guy when it comes to this stuff.

*I agree,..looking back I guess I wish I had just bought the 690 to begin with,..then this wouldn't even be a question. But after looking through numbers,.kinda' glad it has come up.

Jeff
 
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814jeffw said:
Thanks Ralph,..I am trying hard to see where the difference is,..I mean aside from the shaft size. At first I thought MAYBE it was the shaft size that gives it more HP,..due to possibly more torque? But the numbers say otherwise. The only variance in the torque numbers is from a couple other sites that claim the GX630 delivers 35.2,..rather 35.6,..But Hondas own site shows them as the same. Even if they are that close,..they are basically the same at the increment.


The shaft size is about the only difference I can see,..I mean,.when I see the bore and stroke the same and compression the same and the torque and RPM,. the same weight, same ignition, same air cleaner etc, etc,...I am loosely assuming these engines are the same. I looked up the piston number for each and they are identical. Now,..I'm not a motor head,.but I can recognize like numbers all day long.


Here's the thing,..I want to go to 10 GPM with performance,..if the shaft size was the same I'd simply buy the Udor 10 GPM with gearbox and try it out,..but,..with them being different I don't want to buy the pump with the 1" gearbox and then not be able to simply buy the larger engine and swap it out. That's my dilemma. But,..now that I'm looking into this it's getting more interesting just to find out what actually makes them different in HP range?

I have no problem buying the larger engine,.but I already have the 630,.and at $1500 with the muffler for a new 690,.I want to know I'm gaining in performance.

I think the 630 660 690 are based off the same raw design,..if there is an actual HP difference it must be coming from a larger jetted carburetor or something to do with air intake? Otherwise I think they are the same?

Glad it's only December,Ha,Ha,..

Jeff
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Jeff, if it were me I would get the udor with the 1 1/8 shaft size. and get an adapter to put on the gx630. That way you are covered either way. https://www.amazon.com/Shaft-Adapter-Sleeve-Predator-Pulley/dp/B00T8KT6QW the sleeve adapter turns a 1" shaft into a 1 1/8
 
Hey Ralph,..Thanks for taking the time,..I didn't know they made those shaft adapters,..and that is an option for sure. And is likely what I'll do,..because like you said,..then I'm covered.

I've been on several other sites and a handful of other guys think the same thing about these (3) engines.

My thinking is : The specs can't be disputed,. the minor HP difference could be something like $4.00 carburetor jets? Or some other bolt on power,..... I'm not even sure about that,.because the specs are still the same,..maybe the only difference is the sticker they use to label each engine.

*If one of the main specs would have been different or anything I could hang my hat on as a definite difference maker,.I wouldn't even be questioning it.

Interesting subject though! A least for me.


Jeff
 
814jeffw said:
Hey Ralph,..Thanks for taking the time,..I didn't know they made those shaft adapters,..and that is an option for sure. And is likely what I'll do,..because like you said,..then I'm covered.

I've been on several other sites and a handful of other guys think the same thing about these (3) engines.

My thinking is : The specs can't be disputed,. the minor HP difference could be something like $4.00 carburetor jets? Or some other bolt on power,..... I'm not even sure about that,.because the specs are still the same,..maybe the only difference is the sticker they use to label each engine.

*If one of the main specs would have been different or anything I could hang my hat on as a definite difference maker,.I wouldn't even be questioning it.

Interesting subject though! A least for me.


Jeff
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The person to ask about the engine is Russ Johnson
 
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