Citric vs. Oxalic

I was just wondering which people prefer and why. Is one better then the other? I think that citric is supposed to be safer then oxalic. I know people use oxalic on concrete, does citric work like oxalic on concrete? Also was curious about the citric/oxalic acid mixed? I know some people sell a mixed version of that. Any comments about the premixed stuff?

I use citric and dishsoap. the dish soap is just for the foaming for verticle surfaces, and it does fine for me.

Rob,
There is no need to mix dishsoap in with your citric. It just makes yourself more work for rinsing.

Just mix your citric, spray it on, let it dwell 10 minutes or so, then rinse it off. Even on the verticals, the citric will brighten just fine.

I agree.

I use a 50/50 mixture. Why do you rinse. I spray it on and leave.

Oxalic is much better and works faster - Poison. Citric is safer.

Rinse it off/Not rinse it off...............thats argued almost as much as whether or not you should use a surface cleaner on a deck........

It depends on the type of sealer you use. Some sealers do not respond as well if you don't rinse you're brightner off. I use Ready Seal, and have never had a problem (I have never rinsed brightner off......ever.)


P.S. I don't use a surface cleaner on decks..........but that could be it's own thread......

new thought on rinsing

I haven't rinsed in the past either, but I've recently been told that not rinsing will allow the oxalic to promote leaching of the cca in pt wood. Anyone have more information on this? If its true, we're increasing our exposure when we come back to sand and prep the wood for staining.

John

Just wondering what others mix there oxalic at per gallon. I mix at 1 cup per gallon and spray that solution at a 100%. Wondering if I could cut back a little with same result " on decks". Also those using it on concrete, what are your ratios. Did a test patch with it, turned out nice. Thinking about using it on my next concrete job, also will it kill mold. thanx for any advice.

I too use Ready Seal - have not had any problems.


I mix about 4oz per gallon - I stir it in and let set for about 10 minutes and stir again.


Never rinse - works great.

CCA can leach out with just plain water. I don't know if brightner accelerates the process that much if at all. The Conneticut studies show that cca contact with the ground will not move more that 5 inches from contact site.

The articles from Florida U. stated that water would perimit the CCA to escape to the surface of PT wood, and that is the controversy over the leaching. But I don't know anyone who allows their family members to chew on PT wood. It is deffinately a bio concern.

Reed

I say we show up on the job site in a chemical mask and chemical suit with information of the harm that CCA can cause to the homeowners and their family.


Mam or Sir -- there will be a $700.00 Hazard Pay Fee added to your bill.



Just Kidden

Hey Steve Gunn...What did you decide on, citric or oxalic?

I went downriver and watched Tony C strip and brighten two decks yesterday. He used citric to brighten and it did an excellent job of brightening the wood. It was very noticebale in less than 10 minutes while the wood was still wet, too. I will also note that he rinsed the brightener off and it only took about 5 minutes.

I am still way too new to have an opinion on the "To rinse or not to rinse...that is the question!" dilemma. I do have to wonder what happens to the crystals in a powder mix after it is sprayed on the wood. If you poured sugar into a glass of water, stirred the bejeezuz out of it, and poured it onto a flat surface, I can guarantee there will be crystals lying on that surface when it dries. What is different about powder acids?

Please do not misconstrue...I am neither for nor against rinsing yet, just tryin to think logically.

By the way, I just received the Wood Britener from Sun Brite, which has a "mixture" of acids. I'm guessing it is similar to the Citrolic acid from the Grime Scene. I haven't used it yet, but will be next week when I tackle my deck jobs after I build my new deck sprayer system (goodbye pump ups!).

I've taken the liberty of posting a couple of pics of Tony aka APlus aka DeckMaster (I gave him that moniker). In this picture. He had a maniacal laugh as he washed the Penofin off this deck like a hot knife through warm butter!

Tony's creation awaiting dryness to be resealed...

Tony,
I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty of showing off your work. I was extremely impressed with your methods and your results. Thanks again for your support! You are an exemplary colleague that raises the bar in his industry.

I've sealed ten decks in the last week and a half...........and didnt rinse the brightner off of any of them. I have yet to find crystals laying on the decks when I arrive to seal them.

Of course it doesn't hurt anything to rinse it off...............but time is money.

Here's a thought regarding the rinsing of brighteners (citric and/or oxalic)...I'm assuming most people use the powder form and if so, do you mix it at the job site or do you pre-mix the night before? I used the Wood Britener from Sun Brite and the directions recommend mixing the night before so the "crystals completely dissolve". Could that make a dif?

When I used the Wood Britener, I mixed it the night before and there were no crystals when it dried. However, I KNOW there will be times when I will not have the luxury of mixing the night before a job. I wonder what will happen then?

Bryan, mix it with hot water and you won't have any crystals left.

if you do not have access to hot water - mix, let set for 10 minutes and mix again. Hot water is best.

stripped and brightened 4 decks today...used HOT water and didn't have any crystals left after stirring for a couple minutes. Funny thing is...I do this when I make iced tea or lemonade! Put the powder in the pitcher, put a little hot water in, stir for a few seconds and then fill with cold...voila! No crystals in the pitcher (or glass for single servings).

Thanks for thehelp, fellas!

Tony,

That deck waiting to dry looks like new construction sealed with RS Natural Cedar. That should be the look everyone of us strives for. But because of the age of some of the beasts we get, "you can't always get what you want".

Good looking deck. How do you get the ones on the ground, can't remember the last time I had one of those. Tooooo many walk out basements around here.

Reed

Using warm water is a key. The colder the water, the longer it takes the crystals to break down. Too much dry solution per gallon of water can also be a problem. The water will only absorb so much powder, after that the crystals will stay in a solid form no matter how much you stir or how long you wait.

My opinion is that rinsing never hurts - heck of a lot less expensive than having to go back to remove the crystals with a wash or having to restrip due to stain failure. If you were running an assembly line procedure or fleet washing, I'd say a study was in order along with a time study for all procedures was in line. However, 5 or 10 minutes of rinsing per job shouldn't impact your bottom line and again the risk to reward ratio is way too far out of line for me. How much time and money does it take to strip and restain ONE deck?

Regards,