What are the goalsof PWNA?

Grant

Administrator
With all the rumors flying and promises of changes on the horizon, what is it that will be changing other than non-members losing access to the BBS. I've heard the push for local chapters which can and probably will create comraderie, but I am not so sure they will accomplish more than that, but I am willing to attend and promote their cause. But what other than that? What will PWNA now do as a way of communicating with non-members to entice them to join? It was only because of this board that I learned anything about PWNA. There is no publication, solicitation, advertisement or any form of media that was ever seen by me that caused me any interest in this organization. The BBS is what caused my interest. I was still "on the fence" when I became a member (through Jon Flieschers generosity). New members are needed in order to propogate the organization, Where will they come from? Advertisement costs money, money is generated by membership. Which came first the chicken or the egg?
I know the canned response of "Ask not what your organization can do for you, but ask what can you do for your organization" but really what are the goals?
 
Grant,
As some one who is neither for nor against the PWNA(despite what some members and BOD think) it would be interesting to see what the new "top secret" plan is.However,I doubt anyone BOD member or regular member who has access to that info would ever share it with me.
You are correct about the canned response and that is one of the reasons I have yet to join.There has to be some benefit to both business and Org. to draw members.If the potential member see no gain (no matter how small) for their business they will look for other alternatives.I know there are several in the past that say they get the chance to network with other contractors and others that use the logo as part of their marketing.While these are acceptable reasons for some I don't think they work for everyone.There has to be a larger appeal to draw the "on the fence crowd".
Maybe the PWNA will be joining forces with another Org. and they will use that to tap into larger membership rolls.Maybe PWNA and CETA? Only a few truely know what is going on the rest will have to wait and see.
 
A merger with CETA? Is that a realistic expectation?
I am curious, I'm a member I am not privy to what the organizations goals are.
 
Ceta is not doing very well anymore. they have reduced down to almost nothing from what i have understood. they once had hundreds of members and 60 to 70 exibitors at conventions.

the numbers are very low. powerclean 2004 was not very successful.
 
What can local chapters do to help their members?

One thing the local chapters could to promote the PWNA and their companies is to run advertising in the local area.

These are just possible scenarios.

local pwna members contribute money, then together they run an add in the phone books promoting their local chapter and the PWNA. Listing a web site for the chapter with all it's members, or just the contributing members on the website with their contact information..

This would promote the local chapter, the national org and also draw in jobs for the various companies involved in the local chapter.

It would encourage customers to contact the local chapter, hear about the chapter and PWNA and also to look for a PWNA member.

This would also draw members so they could make some money off of the advertising too.

What if each member of the local chapter contributed 50 bucks a month, with a large enough group of people they could kick out a full sized color add and blow away the low ballers and fly by nighters.

This would raise the local bar and give each chapter an opportunity to set a standard in their area by showing their professionalism and it would give the local chapter a voice in the local communities.

The local chapter members could also buy chemicals and sealers in bulk through a distributors, saving them hundreds of dollars a year in overhead costs.. That alone is worth the membership fee!

I'm pretty tired so I may not have written this out very well but it's just an idea I have, how does all that sound?
 
If everything is local why have a national organization?
 
Same plan it's always been........Take in as much capitol as possible while remaining as ineffective as ever. Every member I've spoken with since this ridiculous nonsense got started, said that they have no intention of continuing their membership after expiration of their current one. I'm sure some will think I'm just adding my personal slant to it, but I have nothing to gain one way or the other. The PWNA didn't build our companies and they won't destroy them.
 
Don Phelps,

Your right, org's can't do it for anyof us.

However imagine if your customers did care? Then it would be important to us. But your right we dont care because the customers don't.

That is simple, the failer here is not all the members fault its been running incorrect since inception.

Good folks are trying to change things.

I'll keep giving support but i may not join, Thats in the air at this point.
 
Why have a national org? Besides the fact that it's how it all started I think it's important to have an over all perspective than just a local chapter.

Let's take a president of a company... Once all the guys know how to do their jobs and do them without any problems, what does the president do? Basically he is there to help with any unforseen problems and be able to look at the big picture from the outside. I know this is a lousy analogy but i'm tired..lol

Don, your right the PWNA didn't start anyones company but I'm willing to bet there are lots of members that would say how much the organization has helped them grow and avoid the mistakes that many of us made when we started. Membership is $195.00 and if theres a member that hasn't been able to save at least $250 by avoiding even one of the mistakes we made when started out, it's because they haven't taken the opportunity to use their membership. There are some people that just send in money and sit back and wait for things to happen and they will be waiting a long time too. PWNA is a tool, if you don't use it how can you be upset when it doesn't work?
PWNA is a way to meet with others that have been in business for a while and succeeded, a way to find out what they did and how they did it so you can too. Bulletin boards are a great tool also but it's just text, it's cold, technical and very subject to misinterpetation. Meeting with other companies in person and discussing ideas and suggestions at round tables and conventions will give you the inside look at how people do things.

How many of us really learned how to do something on a bbs? Sure we read the boards or lets call them manuals but until you actually do it in person it doesn't really give you the experiance you need to do something correctly and consistantly, that takes practice.

Ron a lot of our clients don't care about PWNA because they don't know about it and they really don't know anything about what a true professional pw company does. If we take the PWNA and introduce it on a local level and promote it they will have an opportunity to learn more about the correct techniques and how things should be done. I've spoken to you MANY times..lol and you have told me how you educate your clients on your process and how it will protect their property and save them money by doing it properly instead of blasting and destroying it. This is what the PWNA would like to do also but its more of a door to door process like you use.

Ron, I read a post a while back that you put out asking people to join the pwna, just on a principle to see what the org can accomplish. I'm asking the same of you, go ahead and join. You have a strong voice in the industry and you have helped out hundreds of guys with your informative no BS posts. I'd love to see you join and bring your knowledge, support and voice into the org. In the past two years the org has made some great progress and more is in the works but it would be nice to have a guy like you in there to help kick it up a notch...



I know there are lots of companies out there that the PWNA has helped to grow and to avoid costly mistakes. How has the PWNA helped you?
 
Henry Bockman said:
How many of us really learned how to do something on a bbs? Sure we read the boards or lets call them manuals but until you actually do it in person it doesn't really give you the experiance you need to do something correctly and consistantly, that takes practice.

Plenty of people learn things from all the BBS's everyday. Real world application and practice must still take place, but the BBS's help to serve as a classroom of sorts to paint the picture for the OTJ training.

Other than because one of the newly elected PWNA doormen says so, where is the proof that there is any more informational content on the PWNA BBS than this board or any of the others? In fact, that board has less traffic than several of the others do. You visit all the others too. Maybe it's to spread more sanctimonious PWNA rhetoric, or possibly ask some questions and learn how to do something that you haven't before. I know that I still learn all the time and I'm reasonably sure that I can find plenty of questions that you've asked as well.

There are plenty of roundtables each year. Some are hosted by those with an affliation to the PWNA, others aren't. They all provide a valuable service of networking and helping to build a stronger, more respected industry.

It's interesting that so much time has been spent by yourself and others trying to defend an organization that has been on nothing but life support for it's entire 12+ year existence. If it were the leading organization that it daydreams about, there really wouldn't be so much doubt out there, would there?

In closing, I'll simply say that I can take it or leave it, but until the PWNA wannabes get their act together, I'll keep the $195. Don't take my words in the wrong light. I'm not angry about any of it. However, like most people, I expect to get value for my hard-earned buck and myself and many others see none.

Good luck with your crusade! ;)
 
Don Phelps said:
Plenty of people learn things from all the BBS's everyday. Real world application and practice must still take place, but the BBS's help to serve as a classroom of sorts to paint the picture for the OTJ training.

Other than because one of the newly elected PWNA doormen says so, LOL Doorman? I've never been called that before. I'm only giving my opinion and experiance, some of you may take this as PWNA promotion but it's not intended to be that way. I'm one of those guys that speaks their mind and is willing to follow through with what I say. where is the proof that there is any more informational content on the PWNA BBS than this board or any of the others? In fact, that board has less traffic than several of the others do. You visit all the others too. Maybe it's to spread more sanctimonious PWNA rhetoric, or possibly ask some questions and learn how to do something that you haven't before. I know that I still learn all the time and I'm reasonably sure that I can find plenty of questions that you've asked as well.Your definetly right about that, I ask lots of questions because just like everyone else, my business comes first and I want to learn all I can to keep it successful, there's nothing wrong with that at all though. I also want to be as productive as I can but at the same time, I really like helping people out when I can. It's just part of my nature and if I ever meet someone in person I would be happy to explain why I do it. As I said before, you can take my comments as PWNA promotion if you wish because I do support the org but that's not why I post on any board. Sure there are many other BBS's out there and they all have great content and I never said PWNA's had better content. I think they are all pretty similiar and I like them all and use them as tools, people either take the information and use it or don't.

There are plenty of roundtables each year. Some are hosted by those with an affliation to the PWNA, others aren't. They all provide a valuable service of networking and helping to build a stronger, more respected industry. I agree completly any roundtable where guys share information and ideas is a great thing, it doesn't matter who sponsors it at all.

It's interesting that so much time has been spent by yourself and others trying to defend an organization that has been on nothing but life support for it's entire 12+ year existence. If it were the leading organization that it daydreams about, there really wouldn't be so much doubt out there, would there? Is there another organization out there for the Power wash industry? If not then by default it's the leader and people either get involved and believe in it or they don't. I'm just giving my opinion, just the same as you are but I'm not sure what makes you think the org is on life support, it's still alive and kicking and even if another org started up right now it would take a long time for it to build up to what PWNA is today, and it would always be following behind just from lack of time in if nothing else. It takes a long time to create a non profit org, wouldn't it be better to work on what we have instead of investing 12 years in another?

In closing, I'll simply say that I can take it or leave it, but until the PWNA wannabes get their act together, I'll keep the $195. Don't take my words in the wrong light. I'm not angry about any of it. However, like most people, I expect to get value for my hard-earned buck and myself and many others see none.
We don't have to agree on anything at all and I kinda think it's pointless in posting an argument on what my opinion is, or why I do and say what I do. Ron may not be a member now but I know he supports some of the ideals the PWNA has, I just asked him to step up and join just like he's asked others to do in the past.. Whatever anyone decides is completly up to them I don't take it personally, but I don't see any reason in judging my opinion or what you think my motives are over this topic or any of my posts. After all I can accept your opinion without judging it. I'm not angry about it either I just don't see any point and $195 isn't all that much money in my opinion for what I get out of it. Even if it didn't work for me the way I thought it would, (which it has) I've wasted more than that on ideas that didn't work out.

Good luck with your crusade! ;)[/QUOTE]

I don't want to debate this so I'll end my post and stop yammering on. If you have a strait out question just ask me.
 
Environmental enforcement IS coming…..FAST.. In many areas it is already here and waiting for you…Your competition was at the meeting and learning how to beat you with compliance… are you going to miss the next meeting too???

Henry,
The above comment was in a post forwarded to me.It was posted on the PWNA BBS by Cujo(vice-president of the Ga. PWNA Chapter) about the Ga.PWNA chapter meeting.Is the new plan of the PWNA to threaten competition into joining the or you'll call the EPA on them?Has the PWNA adopted a "With us or against us" attitude?By reading the above statement it sure is looking that way.
Why wasn't I shocked to find to find out a BOD member was elected president of the Ga. PWNA Chapter(the very guy who made it very clear he didn't have time for non-PWNA members on the BBS or on in any other way)I wonder if he accepts the money of non-PWNA members when they buy chemicals or equipment from his business in Atl?
 
Squirtgun said:
Environmental enforcement IS coming…..FAST.. In many areas it is already here and waiting for you…Your competition was at the meeting and learning how to beat you with compliance… are you going to miss the next meeting too???

Henry,
The above comment was in a post forwarded to me.It was posted on the PWNA BBS by Cujo(vice-president of the Ga. PWNA Chapter) about the Ga.PWNA chapter meeting.Is the new plan of the PWNA to threaten competition into joining the or you'll call the EPA on them?Has the PWNA adopted a "With us or against us" attitude?By reading the above statement it sure is looking that way.
Why wasn't I shocked to find to find out a BOD member was elected president of the Ga. PWNA Chapter(the very guy who made it very clear he didn't have time for non-PWNA members on the BBS or on in any other way)I wonder if he accepts the money of non-PWNA members when they buy chemicals or equipment from his business in Atl?

Sorry but I think your mistaken, there's no threat there at all. I took it as a warning about epa compliance coming to that area, which you probably already know is happening. For you to take that comment and read into it so far that someone is going to call the epa on you for non compliance is just a bit crazy. If you have a question about it, why don't you ask Cujo? He's the one that posted it and from talking to him a few times I can tell you that is definetly wrong.

Now, why is Pete the President of that chapter? Could'nt it be that he was voted into the position for his expansive experiance in the pressure washing field and for his years of experiance running a business and his voluntary involvement in the PWNA? I think Your a bit too quick to jump to conclusions, if you have a question ask the person posting or just accept what they posted at face value without reading into everything. If you have questions about the chapter or want to get involved yourself, go to the next meeting.
 
Dude chill.....

The info was included in an email from a guy who is fairly new to pressure washing.The question about the EPA was copied from his email...yes newbies are concerned that if they dont join that the PWNA will try to run them out of business.

Pete does have years of experience.He might be a fine choice I guess after he commented he didn't have time to answer questions from non-PWNA members it left a bad taste in my mouth.How well did that on statement reflect on the ORG. to people who might have been on the fence about joining or for newbies?
 
Scott,

Nobody is puting a gun to your head to join... I'm of the firm belief (and so apparently are those that chose to join at the meeting) that it could only help you, but you seem to be content in your current situation, so there it stays.

As for the conspriacy theory you put forth, you could not be further from the truth. Had you accepted the invitation to attend you would know that. The invitation still stands. Perhaps it would be best if you came to a meeting where you could get the story right up front instead of through hearsay, rumor, and innuendo.

The reality is that the CWA has been around since the early 70's (1972, I believe). Nobody really gave a damn about enforcement for a long time. Now, federal dollars are being tied directly to enforcement and local municipalities are seeing the reality of the issue for them. That is the feds are hitting them in the wallet. They aren't willing to give up the cash.

In the Metro Atl. enforcement IS happening.. Gwinnett County is actively seeking ways to find and prosecute offenders, the City of Covington has shut down no less than 3 power wash companies since the first of the year for violations. More and more of the comercial contracts I sign cite CWA compliance. There is no reason to belive that it is not happening elsewhere around the state. I don't have the time nor the inclination to drop a dime on my competition..the local authorities seem to be doing a bang up job finding folks without my aid.

The fact of the matter is that the contractors who find ways to comply WILL beat the competition like a drum. Both on the playing field of competition for jobs AND all the way to the bank. Look to California, Colorado, the Northeast, and other areas for what is happening to those who stand by and watch. As you and I discussed in Albany, my membership in the local and national PWNA helps me as a business owner gain access to the powers that be and help me gain the larger voice needed to get the ear of those who need to hear.

As for officer elections, volunteers were asked to step forward to fill the slots. They were duly nominated, and duly elected by open vote. Pete ran unopposed. that is, nobody else stepped forward to run. Had they, someone else may have the job. Further, the guidelines proposed by the PWNA suggested that a BOD member be instrumental in initiating the formation of the local chapters. As Pete lives and works in the immediate area it is only logical that he be the one to move the chapter forward.

I know you won't call me or answer my calls to you on this topic. I remember you telling me that you were like Alan Shack and want all the discussions to be "in public". Nevertheless, I'll make the offer.. Call me if you want.. it is a better way to get in touch with me.
I have a business to run and can't pressure wash and type at the same time.

Cujo
 
Great Question!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grant,

You asked a very pointed question that needs to be answered for members and non-members. I want to thank you for asking and raising the questions. First, I do not want to step on any toes by my answer. We now have a new President taking office in March, Paul Horsley, and I am sure that he will set goals and have an agenda for his presidency. Doc Reisman when he took office set his goals with involvement from the entire Board. We have used this as a road map during his tenure. I am very excited about the future goals of the PWNA and looking forward to Paul Horsley's presidency. So I will answer your questions to the best of my ability.

I would like to first talk about the landscape of the industry. We work in an industry that has very easy access and start up. There are fewer hurdles than in other professions. There are a couple of other interesting statistics to relate to, and possibly debate. I have heard a number of 40,000 pressure washers, I do not know how accurate that is but I will use that number as a reference in my answers. We also have heard the statistics that 90% of all businesses fail in their first year in business(any small business) and that 50% will fail in year two. So as we look at that it is safe to assume that 9 out of 10 people we talk to on bulletin boards and meet in our areas will not be here next year. Of the 40,000 pressure washers, how many do not visit a bulletin board? How many are actually out working in their business and family lives that do not use these bulletin boards? Of these 40,000 contractors, how many are members of the PWNA? These statistics lead to many questions and should change perspectives. Some other facts to note are that we had a membership around 300 before the bulletin board and got close to 500 in the past year. So I ask, does the bulletin board work? Some might say yes that it increased membership. Some might say this is the way to communicate to the masses. I say it is time to WAKE UP! 300, 500, even 1000 members is just a fraction of 40,000. We need to change the way we do business if we are going to grow further, communicate to others, or make a REAL impact in the industry. If we want to be THE leader in this industry then we need to take the PWNA and our programs to where they can do the most good and benefit everyone. That answer is to their doorstep, so to speak, and not trying to run a bulletin board service. Please do not take my words wrong here, the bulletin boards are an excellent resource and tool for many people. Bulletin boards have a place as a tool and not a central focal point. How do I come up with this? It is simple, I have done enough meetings and visited enough folks through Boot Camps to hear what contractors are saying. I have heard from others who have held meetings and the results are the same. I have seen other professions like plumbers, electricians, and pest control applicators do this all over the country. For those that have meetings of 25-30 people ONLY 4 or 5 are PWNA members! Most of these people would not come if we did not have a meeting in their area. We usually end up signing members once they attend. This is what they are looking for. The trades I mentioned above all have meetings locally and grow. The National Pest Management Association has local meetings in each state that are supported by the national association. You join the national and you are a member of the state association. All the states have meetings going on all the time and they have member and non-member pricing but, everyone can attend. This is what we need to do to reach our target market which is the 40,000. How many are on the bulletin boards we see everyday, 1,000? If that is the answer there are still 39,000 pressure washers to reach! For anyone who has had a meeting it isn't hard to envision having a chapter with 25 people. If we do that in the 48 contiguous states only we end up with 1200 members. This is by far a better plan that what we are currently doing. I have stated before that this is no pipe dream, it IS attainable.

Now more specifically, in speaking with Paul Horsley he wants to keep the goals specific and not a thousand goals going in many different directions. We are looking at specific goals that are completed and performed well. The Local Professional Chapters is going to be a large focus for all the previous mentioned reasons. You mentioned non-members, isn't this a great way for a non-member to learn about the PWNA and the business as a whole? I wish when I got into the business that I had an avenue open to me where I could go to an actual meeting and talk to other contractors. This is also a way to bring in Associate Members, vendors, to help us us raise the levels of professionalism, education, and networking. These members already have customer lists that they would encourage to attend and be part of as well. I have a vendor in my area who gives discounts at the meetings, for attendees only.

Talking about education, we will now have an outlet to educate contractors through the classes. We need to expand our current offerings, which we are doing at this years convention. We will also need to implement a train-the trainer program to be able to handle all the chapters. We are discussing making the courses available through other media avenues like tapes and cd's. Not every class needs to be a certification class. There can be classes where you get a cretificate for attending a class on ABC topic. The idea is to educate and find ways to help the new person getting in the business succeed. In this fashion the PWNA becomes a tool for the prospective "newbie." This also becomes a way for a veteran who wants to add on to his or her business to educate themselves. The best thing though is that we make them available locally and not have to wait for a convention.

In regards to membership, I have previously mentioned some numbers. Are these numbers realistic? Should we hold ourselves accountable to reaching these numbers and going beyond? My answer is absolutley! How do we get there? Again, part of the answer is local chapters another is other organizations. We should continue working with other organizations and associations to communicate who the PWNA is but also to gain endorsements which lead to further credibilty. Futher credibilty and exposure lead to more members.

This also leads into branding and marketing. We need to run the PWNA like we would our own businesses. We need to brand and market the PWNA through other avenues than the bulletin boards. The internet is one tool that we can utilize. There are others like getting more vendors and associate member involved who have access to almost all of that 40,000 number. To do this we need to add value to the brand and make it appealing to these vendors. We need to look at ways to add to the member benefit. If I am a vendor and you are going to hold 4-6 meetings a year for pressure washers then I think it is a no-brainer to get them to buy into the program. To add value to the contractor we need to offer programs to help them run their businesses. Local meetings have had payroll companies, state regulators, Quickbooks seminars, EPA involvement, and so on. This will attract all pressure washers to attend.

The communications committee will have it's work cut out for it though. We need to find ways to get the word out. We need the customers to know who the PWNA is. This includes more than just the Cleaner Times, the BBS, and brochures. I know that we are starting to see a lot of "out of the box" thinking when it comes to marketng and branding our product. I look forward to seeing PWNA lawn signs, customers asking about the PWNA, and so forth. Local chapters are a way to get involved with local suppliers and possibly exploring putting on classes and seminars at local outlets that reach the end users, potential customers.

The issue that faces us is that 500 members is not enough. The way we have done business is changing. The past 13 years have built a foundation. It is now time for the PWNA to go to another level. To do that we need to change the way we do business. Concentrating on the broader picture of running the organization and not one aspect of it, like a bulletin board service, we will accomplish our goals. We will take this to another level. Once we accomplish that level we can address issues like credibilty and respectability for our trade. I also have to add though that I find it interesting that when dealing with our customers that we always say "do not bad mouth the competition because it makes you look bad" then peolpe get on these public bulletin boards and "trash" each other. Even if "trash" is the wrong word, I see people type things that I can't imagine them saying face to face. I believe that if we are ever going to achieve another level of respectability it has to start at home. We need to be more professional and couteous to one another, desite our differences of opinions. I do believe our customers come to these sites. I can only imagine what goes through their minds at times? In any event, I hope I have answered some questions and hopefully raised some more. I look forward to the prosects and being part of that change. Please feel free to copy and paste this reply wherever you like.
 
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