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  1. #1
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    EPA rules for Mobile washers

    http://www.epa.gov/earth1r6/6en/w/pw.htm


    If your discharge does not reach waters of the United States, then there are no requirements under the CWA.
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  • #2
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    The most common method of compliance with the CWA is to prevent process wastewater discharges to waters of the United States. If your discharge does not reach waters of the United States, then there are no requirements under the CWA. Examples of compliance without a discharge are vacuuming up the process wastewater or berming the process water and allowing it to evaporate. An additional method of compliance is to discharge the water to an NPDES permitted sanitary sewer system (the municipality may have additional pretreatment requirements before accepting your discharge). The most common form of non-compliance is to discharge the process water into a storm sewer system or into a city street that drains to a storm water inlet. Most storm drainage systems in Region 6 discharge directly to waters of the United States without treatment, which means anything that discharges into a storm drain is the same as putting it directly into the waterbody receiving the storm drain discharge.
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  • #3
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Ron Musgraves


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  • #4
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    Good stuff Ron...thanks.
    David Paull
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  • #5
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    anytime, ..............
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  • #6
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    this everyone needs to read...
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  • #7
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    Ron. I don't see an attachment.
    Doug Dahlke
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  • #8
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Ron Musgraves


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  • #9
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Ron Musgraves


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  • #10
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    here it is...T
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  • #11
    Hey Ron, this is being voted on as we speak. Not sure it is passed yet. will know in July. But here it is....

    California is asking the EPA "if pressure washing is used, even in low flow, that the debris ( Particles ) that was cleaned off the cement with a pressure washer be vacuumed or filtered."

    Soon you Will not be able to pressure wash unless you capture all the water you use and then vacuum the substance for which you was called out to clean in the first place. You will no longer be able to pressure wash and let the small particles just remain in the gutter while the water evaporates. ( Water never entering the water ways ) In California, you will have to clean the particles up that was left behind after the water had evaporated in the gutter.



    January 29, 2009
    Regional Water Quality Control Board
    5550 Skylane Boulevard, Suite A,
    Santa Rosa, CA 95403


    Below is a direct quote:

    "We urge the board to prohibit sidewalk rinsing unless water is captured since
    even if low volume is used the rinsed pollutants have been launched and will move over time to a waterway."

    They are urging all of region 9 to submit to this new law. Region 9 includes states CA, HI, Nevada and one other state. The post above was from region 6 and may not apply to region 9 if this passes.

    That will stopped allot of pressure washers in their tracks.

  • #12
    Commercial Pressure Wash Expert and PWI Administrator 19000 PLUS POSTER Russ Spence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim@Garagecleaning View Post
    Hey Ron, this is being voted on as we speak. Not sure it is passed yet. will know in July. But here it is....

    California is asking the EPA "if pressure washing is used, even in low flow, that the debris ( Particles ) that was cleaned off the cement with a pressure washer be vacuumed or filtered."

    Soon you Will not be able to pressure wash unless you capture all the water you use and then vacuum the substance for which you was called out to clean in the first place. You will no longer be able to pressure wash and let the small particles just remain in the gutter while the water evaporates. ( Water never entering the water ways ) In California, you will have to clean the particles up that was left behind after the water had evaporated in the gutter.



    January 29, 2009
    Regional Water Quality Control Board
    5550 Skylane Boulevard, Suite A,
    Santa Rosa, CA 95403


    Below is a direct quote:

    "We urge the board to prohibit sidewalk rinsing unless water is captured since
    even if low volume is used the rinsed pollutants have been launched and will move over time to a waterway."

    They are urging all of region 9 to submit to this new law. Region 9 includes states CA, HI, Nevada and one other state. The post above was from region 6 and may not apply to region 9 if this passes.


    That will stopped allot of pressure washers in their tracks.
    cool That will make California look like Mexico sooner than expected

  • #13
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim@Garagecleaning View Post
    Hey Ron, this is being voted on as we speak. Not sure it is passed yet. will know in July. But here it is....

    California is asking the EPA "if pressure washing is used, even in low flow, that the debris ( Particles ) that was cleaned off the cement with a pressure washer be vacuumed or filtered."

    Soon you Will not be able to pressure wash unless you capture all the water you use and then vacuum the substance for which you was called out to clean in the first place. You will no longer be able to pressure wash and let the small particles just remain in the gutter while the water evaporates. ( Water never entering the water ways ) In California, you will have to clean the particles up that was left behind after the water had evaporated in the gutter.



    January 29, 2009
    Regional Water Quality Control Board
    5550 Skylane Boulevard, Suite A,
    Santa Rosa, CA 95403


    Below is a direct quote:

    "We urge the board to prohibit sidewalk rinsing unless water is captured since
    even if low volume is used the rinsed pollutants have been launched and will move over time to a waterway."

    They are urging all of region 9 to submit to this new law. Region 9 includes states CA, HI, Nevada and one other state. The post above was from region 6 and may not apply to region 9 if this passes.

    That will stopped allot of pressure washers in their tracks.
    It looks to me like (just as I thought) even in California, wash water from sidewalks is being washed right into the storm drains without impunity. Why aren't those guys in the pictures in San Quintin by now?

    And why are you, Jim, just sitting back talking about it and not doing something about it? Why not propose something to cover the drains and catch the "pollutants" they are so concerned about. Maybe they should look at the CWA and learn the definition of "pollutants" or maybe you should go there and teach them.

    I'm making a prediction right now. You seem to think this is great that the State is limiting your competition. Here's my prediction. THEY DON'T CARE WHAT LEVEL YOU ARE AT, THEY WILL STEAMROLL ALL OVER YOU.

    They will make rules that cannot possibly be kept by you under any circumstances because their goal is to eliminate all modern conveniences from the state. (And because they are idiots.

    Then someone will come along with a new, less effective alternative and put you right out of business and it will serve you right for sitting there smugly thinking how advanced you are and that the government is going to do the work of limiting your competition.

    This kind of thing pi**es me off to no end. You seem to know what's going on every where so get out there and help make sensible policy for us! And don't do it in a way that will just help YOU - you've got brothers in the business that look up to you for all your years in the business that need your help!

    thats my 2 cents!!!!!!!
    Sonitx 845 S. Kenny Way Las Vegas, NV 89107 702-358-7477 Air Filter Service - Coil Cleaning - 2 month Payback


  • #14
    Moderator 11000 PLUS POSTER Christopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Shelton View Post
    It looks to me like (just as I thought) even in California, wash water from sidewalks is being washed right into the storm drains without impunity. Why aren't those guys in the pictures in San Quintin by now?

    And why are you, Jim, just sitting back talking about it and not doing something about it? Why not propose something to cover the drains and catch the "pollutants" they are so concerned about. Maybe they should look at the CWA and learn the definition of "pollutants" or maybe you should go there and teach them.

    I'm making a prediction right now. You seem to think this is great that the State is limiting your competition. Here's my prediction. THEY DON'T CARE WHAT LEVEL YOU ARE AT, THEY WILL STEAMROLL ALL OVER YOU.

    They will make rules that cannot possibly be kept by you under any circumstances because their goal is to eliminate all modern conveniences from the state. (And because they are idiots.

    Then someone will come along with a new, less effective alternative and put you right out of business and it will serve you right for sitting there smugly thinking how advanced you are and that the government is going to do the work of limiting your competition.

    This kind of thing pi**es me off to no end. You seem to know what's going on every where so get out there and help make sensible policy for us! And don't do it in a way that will just help YOU - you've got brothers in the business that look up to you for all your years in the business that need your help!

    thats my 2 cents!!!!!!!

    +10 Great post Tony.

    People are misled by people in high offices and soon those people are replaced and things change often, sometimes to worse situations than before and now your clout and credibility just left with that person or that group and you are standing there alone wondering what happened. Hope that does not happen to anyone, I have seen it a few times in the Petroleum industry, it can happen to anyone anytime anywhere.

  • #15
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Dont we have the PWNA & UAMcc for this Tony, I thought they are suppose to help us.

    Yeah the PWNA has assisted in around 9 and seven dont exist any longer. The Uamcc has been to one, the city looks like it had its own ideas. (thank goodness)


    First thing is that you have to have contractors that are smart enough to understand what a storm drain is. What is a water retention system? what is a sanitary sewer?

    If you read the above statment from the EPA if you stay away from the storm drain the CWA does not apply. (PERIOD)

    Most here are how do we do that Ron,,,

    Have the city start implementing the proper construction in your town or city and make the land owners and developers comply to the CWA.

    When we build a factory you bet that they have to comply, so do shopping center owners. The citys now want Fed money and they are told if they dont do something they are going to loose it.

    So now we have manufactures that want to sell equipment helping them comply? Well that means buying expensive equipment must be the only way.

    Wrong, if the propertys are built responsible then we all could comply and save the eviroment for the future generations.

    Tony you got my blood boiling about this, maybe we should have another EPA person come to a meeting and speak.

    If you have no off property discharge the CWA does not pertain to you. Read above...keep reading it.

    The most common method of compliance with the CWA is to prevent process wastewater discharges to waters of the United States. If your discharge does not reach waters of the United States, then there are no requirements under the CWA.
    Last edited by Ron Musgraves; 05-26-2009 at 11:31 AM.
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  • #16
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Maybe this should be and awareness project for the Uamcc if they really want to help the industry and the contractor for contractor organization they Run.
    Ron Musgraves


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  • #17
    I will ask my connections at the EPA. I know however, that the City of Concord has already required that sand bags ( Or something like that) be placed at all storm drains when cleaning a sidewalk. Then, you must rinse the gutter when finish and pick up any dirt or fine particles. Right now, that is the law. It is on the books. I did go to the EPA here and gave my two cents. They said it is on the books but until more cities in the area have similar requirements, they will not enforce it. HOWEVER, IT IS COMING.

    Tony, I DO NOT like this at all for sidewalk cleaning. I do not support it.

    I do support these requirements in Garage Cleaning ONLY !

    However, you are in region 9. That is what that letter is addressing.

    THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THIS LETTER FOR AMENDMENT, If they approve it, ALL OF REGION 9 WILL HAVE TO FOLLOW THESE NEW REQUIREMENTS, WHITHER IT REACHES THE STORM DRAIN OR NOT.

    Do not make any assumption that I agree with this level of filtration.

    I BELIEVE THAT if one is NOT using any soap / detergent, and oil removal is not present, then a filter SHOULD NOT BE REQUIRED. But read the letter closely. This is to amened the current law. THIS will apply to region 9 which is Arizona, Nevada, HI and California if so passed.

    THIS IS NOT JUST A CALIFORNIA THING. IT IS YOUR STATE AS WELL IF THEY PASS IT.

    AGAIN, I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS TYPE OF FILTRATION AT ALL. ESPECIALLY WHEN NO DETERGENT IS USED.

    NOTE: THIS IS NOT A CALIFORNIA THING. AND IN LAKE TAHOE, I AM TOLD THAT

    BOTH CALIFORNIA AND NEVADA ALREADY HAVE THIS IN PLACE FOR THE LAKE TAHOE AREA. They just want the other parts of the states to follow.

  • #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Musgraves View Post
    Maybe this should be and awareness project for the Uamcc if they really want to help the industry and the contractor for contractor organization they Run.

    I agree. This is bigger than one man with a voice. The UAMCC is a voice of many. They should address this issue to make it clear that this is over kill for sidewalk cleaning for the purpose of gum removal.

  • #19
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim@Garagecleaning View Post
    I will ask my connections at the EPA. I know however, that the City of Concord has already required that sand bags ( Or something like that) be placed at all storm drains when cleaning a sidewalk. Then, you must rinse the gutter when finish and pick up any dirt or fine particles. Right now, that is the law. It is on the books. I did go to the EPA here and gave my two cents. They said it is on the books but until more cities in the area have similar requirements, they will not enforce it. HOWEVER, IT IS COMING.

    Tony, I DO NOT like this at all for sidewalk cleaning. I do not support it.

    I do support these requirements in Garage Cleaning ONLY !

    However, you are in region 9. That is what that letter is addressing.

    THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THIS LETTER FOR AMENDMENT, If they approve it, ALL OF REGION 9 WILL HAVE TO FOLLOW THESE NEW REQUIREMENTS, WHITHER IT REACHES THE STORM DRAIN OR NOT.

    Do not make any assumption that I agree with this level of filtration.

    I BELIEVE THAT if one is NOT using any soap / detergent, and oil removal is not present, then a filter SHOULD NOT BE REQUIRED. But read the letter closely. This is to amened the current law. THIS will apply to region 9 which is Arizona, Nevada, HI and California if so passed.

    THIS IS NOT JUST A CALIFORNIA THING. IT IS YOUR STATE AS WELL IF THEY PASS IT.

    AGAIN, I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS TYPE OF FILTRATION AT ALL. ESPECIALLY WHEN NO DETERGENT IS USED.

    NOTE: THIS IS NOT A CALIFORNIA THING. AND IN LAKE TAHOE, I AM TOLD THAT

    BOTH CALIFORNIA AND NEVADA ALREADY HAVE THIS IN PLACE FOR THE LAKE TAHOE AREA. They just want the other parts of the states to follow.

    The most common method of compliance with the CWA is to prevent process wastewater discharges to waters of the United States. If your discharge does not reach waters of the United States, then there are no requirements under the CWA.
    I just have to follow what the FEDS say, if I can make this happen they can write re-write and dance around all they want. If I can make that happen its all that counts.

    Jim, I got the feeling that you dont like what the feds are telling us? Its just to simple?

    We should have a massive campaign to let pressure cleaning contractors around the world know.

    You can keep throwing the rules and guidelines out there, your not getting that its so simple.

    Wait let me post this one more time...
    The most common method of compliance with the CWA is to prevent process wastewater discharges to waters of the United States. If your discharge does not reach waters of the United States, then there are no requirements under the CWA.
    Thats not Ron Musgraves, is the federal goverment that makes the rules. Now your local people are being bamboosled.LOL
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  • #20
    Exterior Restoration Specialist 21000 PLUS POSTER Ron Musgraves's Avatar
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    The most common method of compliance with the CWA is to prevent process wastewater discharges to waters of the United States. If your discharge does not reach waters of the United States, then there are no requirements under the CWA.
    ....................
    Ron Musgraves


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