Clean County PW
Active member
Neither.... Which is why I ask Robert if he can explain those quotes..
EPA Enforcement in 2012 Protects Communities From Harmful Pollution
- Thread starter Robert Hinderliter
- Start date
Ohio pressure wash
New member
I hope Robert hangs in there...we are getting to the bottom of a problem that has existed for years. Time for full disclosure.
I'd rather John move on....and I'll wager Robert does as well. He certainly isn't making things easy for him as he keeps tee'ing us up with challenges that are easily provable.
BTW...my friends call me Barry
mistersqueegee
New member
Nice to meet you Barry!
Ohio pressure wash
New member
Seems like Robert "leans" to the contractors that buy the "stuff"
How's this representing an industry?
http://www.powerwash.com/articles/e...-for-mobile-pressure-washing.html#EnviorPower
How's this representing an industry?
http://www.powerwash.com/articles/e...-for-mobile-pressure-washing.html#EnviorPower
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
Jealousy is the only reason I can see for that conclusion; it never has been true.
I used to be attacked by competitors for destroying our business of selling Environmental Equipment because I helped to eliminate the need for expensive equipment with acceptable BMPs by the AHJs.
Bulling from both sides. However, Distributors and Manufacturers were a lot more tactful.
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
Barry R Posted: "the industry will go underground and discharge wastewater to the MS4s on nights and weekends when enforcement is at its lowest"
That is taking a statement out of context to give it a different meaning.
The whole statement says that if the BMPs are not Logical, Reasonable, Rational then the industry will go underground and discharge wastewater to the MS4s on nights and weekends when enforcement is at its lowest.
Example: If a municipality charges $350.00 per load of waste water to dump at the POTW, then that is what will happen.
This has been discussed many times at AHJ Meetings along with IDDE methods and examples.
The industry does go underground if not given an economical option.
That is taking a statement out of context to give it a different meaning.
The whole statement says that if the BMPs are not Logical, Reasonable, Rational then the industry will go underground and discharge wastewater to the MS4s on nights and weekends when enforcement is at its lowest.
Example: If a municipality charges $350.00 per load of waste water to dump at the POTW, then that is what will happen.
This has been discussed many times at AHJ Meetings along with IDDE methods and examples.
The industry does go underground if not given an economical option.
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
Barry R. Posted:
Mobile power wash contractors willing to invest the time, money, and equipment necessary in order to offer environmental washing services, and willing to obtain the certification letters from regulating authorities, have a tremendous competitive advantage. For these operators, it is possible to double or triple their business in a year. Their first advantage generally will be increased enforcement of the Clean Water Act for no off property discharge. Since they are the only ones having an approved procedure, recommendations are easier to get. Of course, this exclusive position will only last until others obtain approval but by that time, you should have already established your reputation. Powerwash.com has helped many contract cleaners in almost every state implement this process.
Robert:
Again that is taking thing out of context for a different meaning
Some Contract Cleaners want to be leaders, others want to hide and avoid regulators, some will comply when forced to, others still just want to be followers, and lastly others do not have the foggiest idea of what is happening.
That statement is for those that want to be the leaders in their areas and acceptable BMPs is part of their marketing. It addresses what they can expect based on past experience in other jurisdictions.
A lot of new people starting in business want to start out right and want to know what to expect.
Mobile power wash contractors willing to invest the time, money, and equipment necessary in order to offer environmental washing services, and willing to obtain the certification letters from regulating authorities, have a tremendous competitive advantage. For these operators, it is possible to double or triple their business in a year. Their first advantage generally will be increased enforcement of the Clean Water Act for no off property discharge. Since they are the only ones having an approved procedure, recommendations are easier to get. Of course, this exclusive position will only last until others obtain approval but by that time, you should have already established your reputation. Powerwash.com has helped many contract cleaners in almost every state implement this process.
Robert:
Again that is taking thing out of context for a different meaning
Some Contract Cleaners want to be leaders, others want to hide and avoid regulators, some will comply when forced to, others still just want to be followers, and lastly others do not have the foggiest idea of what is happening.
That statement is for those that want to be the leaders in their areas and acceptable BMPs is part of their marketing. It addresses what they can expect based on past experience in other jurisdictions.
A lot of new people starting in business want to start out right and want to know what to expect.
mistersqueegee
New member
So you are saying that the industry as a whole will choose to destroy the environment willingly if it's not economically in their best interest to do otherwise? If that's the case I can see why most of the industry thinks you portray them as polluters.
Clean County PW
Active member
No what Robert is saying there has to be other acceptable solutions such as a simple method of using berms or landscape area at times...IMHO
Once again Robert can correct that if I'm seeing that incorrectly.
mistersqueegee
New member
John, I admire your persistence on Robert's behalf but his words were pretty clear. By saying the industry DOES go underground he is making a blanket condemnatory statement that can't be understood any other way.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Robert, you are wrong again. History has shown that when BMP's are not "practicable" as the law requires, the result is that contractors GO OUT OF BUSINESS. It happened all over Georgia where you "helped" and it happened in Houston while you "helped" till Ron came and took over and got something done.
Any Logical, Reasonable, and Rational representative of our industry would have informed the regulators of that using visuals like this instead of the visuals you have used to prove we are all just waiting to be left alone so we can pollute.
Here is what happens when BMP's are not practicable. Here are the images you should have been using all these years if you gave a d@mn about our industry.
Ridiculous, I travel to places consider third world and the building and walks cleaner than in America in some cases
Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
Christopher
Moderator
Robert, you are wrong again. History has shown that when BMP's are not "practicable" as the law requires, the result is that contractors GO OUT OF BUSINESS. It happened all over Georgia where you "helped" and it happened in Houston while you "helped" till Ron came and took over and got something done.
Any Logical, Reasonable, and Rational representative of our industry would have informed the regulators of that using visuals like this instead of the visuals you have used to prove we are all just waiting to be left alone so we can pollute.
Here is what happens when BMP's are not practicable. Here are the images you should have been using all these years if you gave a d@mn about our industry.
Those are great photos Tony!
It makes you wonder what would happen if things got so bad that more and more places just stopped cleaning like what happened in Houston.
The cities own the sidewalks and in those pictures it looks like they have not been cleaned in a long time, the store owners and business owners don't have to pay to get them cleaned, what if they just gave up and let them get worse and worse, especially in the downtown areas where you have homeless issues and restaurants that have grease building up continuously on the sidewalks?
What happens when they get worse and worse and worse?
What happens when they become a slip hazard and people get hurt?
What happens when it becomes a health issue because of all the filth?
Will the cities do it themselves? I don't think so as there are just too many sidewalks.
What happens when the sidewalks get so filthy that they start to get a nice glaze or slime buildup on them and people start sliding or falling down on them?
Makes you think.
Will the EPA come out and clean them? I would like to see them try, especially with video being recorded to see how they do it, if it is done right, how they process the water, if they are D.O.T. compliant (need D.O.T. officers there to make sure the vehicle and what they do are right and tickets will be enforced) and what happens next. hahahahahahaha
What happens when everyone just stops caring because of all this nonsense if we don't get things back on the right track and everything just gets worse and more filthy?
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Good points Chris
Clean County PW
Active member
You know Tony E. I can't answer that because I haven't sat in with regulators yet. The only thing I truly understand is how to present oneself in court. I opened court for yrs and had to so a saying when the judge came in "all rise this is the court of etc etc). There was certain ways to talk to judges which is why people tend to get lawyers and believe me these people aren't always guilty. Most probably aren't.
I look at Robert differently then most people here. I believe he can talk there language which makes him a tremendous asset. To me he's a strength. I want to go tell some of these officials to F off but you can't do that(you understand what I'm saying here).
I am not sticking up for a Robert Blindly. There are some of his points I don't agree with as well but I am not about to dismissed him and brand him along the way as a person who only cared about himself.. I also know Robert well and I am probably bias here because of that. I know things about him that most on the internet do not and these are good things.
But that aside... No I don't believe in burning a bridge and starting from scratch and since that appears to be the UAMCC's goal I can only say good luck to that up hill challenge.. Because your going to need it since you are already taking out such a valuable resource..
I like your thinking mans post Tony E.(thumbsup)
Clean County PW
Active member
Totally agree with that.
Clean County PW
Active member
excellent points Chris.
Ohio pressure wash
New member
You miss my entire point Robert.
In your own words, you spell out a marketing plan designed around increased enforcement. You even suggest the "exclusive position" will diminish in time as the competition also invests in equipment. Finally, you claim you've helped people in every state use this "Arms Race" marketing strategy.
I know capitalism isn't against the law and you can use any marketing plan you want to sell equipment. However, I believe it's a bit disingenuous to use a position on those Orgs to implement this kind of plan.
In for a penny....in for a pound
If you are willing to use the regulators (as you clearly state in your own words) in a local marketing plan...why should I believe this local plan isn't part of an even larger plan of driving up enforcement and regulation to increase need and demand for more and more investment in equipment?
The pieces of the puzzle all fit together.....hard to keep denying the money motive for all this supposed selfless benevolence.
bigchaz
Moderator
John, if the local laws and restrictions became such that you had to vacuum every drop of water, haul it off site with special license and pay $350 or more to dispose of the waste would you decide instead to take the waste and dump it in a river at night when no one is looking?
This is what Robert says you will do "Example: If a municipality charges $350.00 per load of waste water to dump at the POTW, then that is what will happen"
"the industry will go underground and discharge wastewater to the MS4s on nights and weekends when enforcement is at its lowest."
I don't know you John but think you are a responsible and professional contractor so I feel confident knowing that you would not do that. However, Roberts position is that in the face BMPs that are not rational that contractors will willfully take waste and dispose of it illegally.
I don't want to try to predict your actions John, but I think if that were the case you would probably try to comply, or if it became too difficult you would move on to another area of cleaning and simply not clean the structure anymore. This is like the pictures Tony posted, the powerwashers simply moved on.
John, there are two ways you can look at the industry as a whole. Either you believe that powerwashers are good and honest people who want to do the right thing and earn a fair living. Or you believe that powerwashers will do anything for a buck up to and including willful pollution and illegal dumping.
Right now, your blind devotion to Robert seems to put you square in the 2nd category. I believe that we as an industry are better than that.
This is what Robert says you will do "Example: If a municipality charges $350.00 per load of waste water to dump at the POTW, then that is what will happen"
"the industry will go underground and discharge wastewater to the MS4s on nights and weekends when enforcement is at its lowest."
I don't know you John but think you are a responsible and professional contractor so I feel confident knowing that you would not do that. However, Roberts position is that in the face BMPs that are not rational that contractors will willfully take waste and dispose of it illegally.
I don't want to try to predict your actions John, but I think if that were the case you would probably try to comply, or if it became too difficult you would move on to another area of cleaning and simply not clean the structure anymore. This is like the pictures Tony posted, the powerwashers simply moved on.
John, there are two ways you can look at the industry as a whole. Either you believe that powerwashers are good and honest people who want to do the right thing and earn a fair living. Or you believe that powerwashers will do anything for a buck up to and including willful pollution and illegal dumping.
Right now, your blind devotion to Robert seems to put you square in the 2nd category. I believe that we as an industry are better than that.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
This is a three bay semi-truck fuel filling station at a petroleum plant.
Right in the middle of each of the lanes is a big grated hole, right behind where Chris is standing in this picture. The entire thing is covered by a huge roof. There is no rain event ever going to get a drop of rain inside this area unless it comes in on the wheels of the trucks.
I'd like to ask Robert, what the big hole is for? It is for floods in case God ever gets angry with us again and floods the earth? Because that is the only way this system will ever see rainwater.
Or, is it for US to be used when washing down the lanes?
Right in the middle of each of the lanes is a big grated hole, right behind where Chris is standing in this picture. The entire thing is covered by a huge roof. There is no rain event ever going to get a drop of rain inside this area unless it comes in on the wheels of the trucks.
I'd like to ask Robert, what the big hole is for? It is for floods in case God ever gets angry with us again and floods the earth? Because that is the only way this system will ever see rainwater.
Or, is it for US to be used when washing down the lanes?