The Vote is in

P

Phil Ackland

KEC Expert
Phil Ackland’s Cleaning and Certification Manual and Fire Inspectors Manual have been recognized by the NFPA #96 Committee for inclusion in the 2004 Standard.

Now you have even more reasons to become Phil Ackland Certified.

In a few months you will be able to approach your local Fire Inspector, open the NFPA #96 Standard, point and say, “I got my certification from Phil Ackland. This guy, right here.”

You never know, the inspector may answer, “So did I.” As he points to the Inspectors Manual that we use in our AHJ training programs.

Exhaust cleaners have been looking for something to identify their credibility. Now you have it.

In respect for all the work so many have done in supporting the principle of Certification, regardless of which association or organization they worked through, we are offering a special discounted price for all current and previously certified companies.

Click Here for further details: http://www.philackland.com/Dist_assoc.html

Phil Ackland Certification upgrades your credentials (no one said you can’t have two certifications).

This certification is for 3 years and is expandable when adding more Crew Leaders.

This is our way of saying Thank You for all the support we have received from so many over the years as we have tried to improve this field.
 
Last edited:
Phil

You just stated "NFPA will never say that only so-and-so is qualified to certify. Never. NFPA does not endorse or "approve" any process, product or service. Who on (or in) NFPA would consider themselves qualified enough to say that anyone else could do this certifying?" What happen?
 
The Cleaning and Certification Manual and the Fire Inspectors Manual will be recognized in the Appendix as "Referenced Publications"

This is any reference material that can be researched for more information on a subject. In our case, more information on commercial kitchen exhaust systems.

As I having been trying to say all along, I want to share this success with everyone. It is one more step for this service to gain recognition and credibility.
 
IKECA is happy to announce that their new manual is now available at ikeca.com. In keeping with the sharing of ideas, the manual is FREE and it is near 1000 pages. Everyone in IKECA has donated time, current experience, information & techniques.

Please take a look at what will be a great addition to a national standard.
 
Free to IKECA members. $175 for non-members. Doesn't sound bad for a 1000 page manual. 1000 pages of training for exhaust cleaning, are there a lot of pictures:D.

Phil Ackland's Kitchen Exhaust Cleaning & Certification Manual is about 500 pages and covers about everything imagineable, aside from picking Oriental grease boogers out of your hair.

Phil-
Have there been any updates to your manual since Jan 2003, and if so how do I get them?
 
Go Packers!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Speaking as one man with more than a few fingers in the grease troughs of Americas' restaurants, I respectfully ask Mr Ackland for his definition of "sharing." As in, ".... I having been trying to say all along, I want to share this success with everyone."

Ikeca, to which I don't belong, has made a "sharing" gesture by compiling and integrating whole bunches of info into a manual which they are freely "sharing" with the wanna-be greasers of the world. Yet Mr. Ackland, your "sharing" has price tags attached.

Is there any way, Mr. Ackland, that the insurance companies with whom you counsel, can underwrite the costs and expenses of your enterprises. We are bearing all the financial burden not to mention the risk. (By guesstimate, there are nationally, 380 independent hood cleaning companies, that might be on the high side.) We clean grease out of kitchen hoods for a living, for chrissakes! What kind of lobby do we have? (How can you spot a hood cleaner among a group of power washers? He's the guy sleeping in the corner with the band-aids on his hands.)

I am sorry for bringing that up, however, the choir is getting tapped-out by this certification and that certification and that membership and this testing and that renewal and that convention and that book all with those hefty price tags! I think I am unamimous when I ask, where will it stop?

Happy New Year Everyone
 
I viewed the Certification site and am puzzled. It is stated "certified by...CHDCA...add...to your credentials" and "Ackland...an integral part...of all three of these...". Surely your don't place the bogus CHDCA 'certification' on the same level with the other two - do you? This would be passing credulity! More than one YEAR of discussion in respect to this 'training' reveals one thrust only - the 'superiority' of the one-man crew (according to them). This asinine froth has recently abated, however it still appears to be their sole unique tenet. Probably some are unaware of this - I would suggest reading the posts - and make copies - you may be glad you did.
Richard
 
"This would be passing credulity!"

"This asinine froth has recently abated, however it still appears to be their sole unique tenet."

Richard-
First off, are you an English Major or a Hood Cleaner? I had to get out my dictionary just to understand this post.:D

Next issue. What makes PWNA or IKECA certification any more credible than CHDCA. They all three seem to be shooting for the same goal, educating the cleaner. Whether that be one or ten people per job.

I have never once seen or heard of the "superiority" of the one man crew from the CHDCA. Only "profitability". That is their edge, they train you to work as one man. They don't put the one man on a throne, they just give him a fatter wallet.

All that I see on this board is PWNA vs IKECA vs CHDCA vs Phil Ackland.

How about PWNA + IKECA + CHDCA + Phil Ackland. This would benefit everyone.

Some can only dream, harmony among hood cleaners
:)

Happy and prosperous New Year to all, even IKECA:D
 
Last edited:
The Annex (formerly known as Appendix) is for informational purposes only.

"Annex A Explanatory Material"
This annex is not a part of the requirements of this NFPA document but is included for informational purposes only."
This is from my copy of NFPA 96-2001 page 96-24.
Page 96-31 "Annex B Informational References "
B.1 Referenced Publications The following documents or portions thereof are referenced wihthin this standard for infjormational purposes only and are thsu no part of hte requiredmants of this document unless also listed in Chapter 2. "

Page 96-4
Chapter 2 Referneced Publications
This lists certain NFPA Publications (14)and other publications such as EPA (1) and UL (5)
So Mr Acklands publication is not part of the standard unless specifically listed in chapter 2. Of course the NFPA Standard 96-????? is not a law unless adopted by whatever agency in your area is responsible for codes. It is interesting to note that if any model code is adopted into law, any references in that standard are also law. So if NFPA 96-2001 is the adopted code in your area, you are also bound by the 14 NFPA codes, 1 EPA code and 5 UL standards referenced in Chapter 2. It may be that each of the referenced codes will reference other codes, which become part of the code we started with. If NFPA 96-1998 has been adopted in your area, Chapter 12 refereces 11 NFPA standards, 3 ASTM publications, 1 EPA , and 4 UL Publications.

If you live in Oregon, or another state that references IMC-1998, all the above is moot because there is no reference to NFPA 96


Of course if you get your ass hauled into court, the standard used will be NFPA 96, current edition, as that is generally accepted by our industry and the insurance industry.

Confused yet?

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
 
Thank you Douglas, you are 100% right on!
 
Dodsonish,
My posting was not directed to you, however the answer to your initial question is 'neither'. The handwriting on the wall indicates that if one is a "Hood Cleaner" only then the future is not bright. Our association offers complete service including repairs, 6 month inspections, links, extinguishers, fans, etc. It is refreshing to see one who makes the effort to understand - the dictionary really doesn't bite. Glad I could be of help.

In respect to your second question I would suggest you take a look at the IKECA Manual - it is just a few clicks away. The contributors are listed, and even a cursory review reveals these are the elite in our business. They know the business, and they are to be lauded for allowing us to peek over their shoulder. Now contrast that to your mentor who helped develop the CHDCA. You entered this a little late, therefore it would be well to read all posts by Ace dating from 3/24/02. You will see. Many of his posts have been sanitized (such as the recent 'Mtngoat' diatribe in which he ill-advisedly published goat's private, non-public personal information). His "60+ cleanings per month" (3/26/02) had to be defended with greater and greater Janklow-like excuses until it toppled over when he got caught and had to admit he doesn't clean hoods (5/23/03). 'Oh the webs we weave...'. More recently he certified himself (!) and cleaned for a few weeks and now only 'occasionally'. Now the question is - do you really think this 'certification' has any merit? I don't. I could start my own 'certification', and call the assn. Richard's Elite Troops Cleaning Hoods, or 'RETCH' for short. Just think, your clientele can advertise 'we have a RETCH kitchen'.

There is very much in these posts about the superiority of the one-man system - even to the extent of denigrating all other 'systems'. At one point even Larry Hinckley had to reprove him. All of this from a man who didn't even know how to clean hoods. Recognize this as 'certified' - surely you jest.

I could go on about the misconception of the one-man "fatter wallet" theory - it simply is not so, however it is after 4AM (yes I worked on the first) and this old geezer is getting tired.

Go Broncos!

Richard
 
Douglas Hicks said:
The Annex (formerly known as Appendix) is for informational purposes only.

"Annex A Explanatory Material"
This annex is not a part of the requirements of this NFPA document but is included for informational purposes only."
This is from my copy of NFPA 96-2001 page 96-24.
Page 96-31 "Annex B Informational References "
B.1 Referenced Publications The following documents or portions thereof are referenced wihthin this standard for infjormational purposes only and are thsu no part of hte requiredmants of this document unless also listed in Chapter 2. "

Page 96-4
Chapter 2 Referneced Publications
This lists certain NFPA Publications (14)and other publications such as EPA (1) and UL (5)
So Mr Acklands publication is not part of the standard unless specifically listed in chapter 2. Of course the NFPA Standard 96-????? is not a law unless adopted by whatever agency in your area is responsible for codes. It is interesting to note that if any model code is adopted into law, any references in that standard are also law. So if NFPA 96-2001 is the adopted code in your area, you are also bound by the 14 NFPA codes, 1 EPA code and 5 UL standards referenced in Chapter 2. It may be that each of the referenced codes will reference other codes, which become part of the code we started with. If NFPA 96-1998 has been adopted in your area, Chapter 12 refereces 11 NFPA standards, 3 ASTM publications, 1 EPA , and 4 UL Publications.

If you live in Oregon, or another state that references IMC-1998, all the above is moot because there is no reference to NFPA 96


Of course if you get your ass hauled into court, the standard used will be NFPA 96, current edition, as that is generally accepted by our industry and the insurance industry.

Confused yet?

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
Click to expand...

Can you repeat that, I am confused now.

Just as soon as I am ready to get back in the water, I forget my life vest.

Matt
 
Regarding some of the comments above.

The Cleaning and Certification Manual and the Inspectors Manual will be in the Annex of the 2004 NFPA #96.

This will provide some degree of credibility to the cleaning field. This is what I meant by Sharing

Having Manuals that are used by both the Fire Community and the Exhaust Cleaning service will help me in some financial way. (You couldn’t live on it but it helps)

But it will also help this field. Cleaners now have a point of reference -- in the #96 -- This will be referenced by the fire and insurance communities. Those of you who want to identify with these publications will benefit.

Phil Ackland and DPW of Louisville (Jim Roberts) are offering training and certification to both AHJ’s and exhaust cleaners. This is going to raise the bar. We want to Share that success with those who embrace the values we are trying to promote.

In this earlier thread -- I (we) also said Thank You to those of you who have supported our efforts.

For the past 15 years I have been paying my own way to NFPA #96 committee meetings. There I have proposed many of the changes that recognize the need for proper cleaning in these systems.
NFPA #96 4.1.8 (2001) 1-3.1.3 (1998) was mine, submitted years ago.
In the new 2004 #96 edition there will be a new Standard to the effect that the exhaust system is the responsibility of the property owner NOT the poor dumb service guy that cleaned it last. What’s that worth to you?
And there are about 2 dozen more, if you want to look hard enough.

The cost of traveling to those meetings was paid in part by those who support me. They can take some credit for these successes. To them I say again -- Thank You.

We do not care what association they belong to - Or what team they root for. If they are trying to imporve this field we would like to work WITH them.
 
Richard,

Go Broncos.....Go home that is:D

Tuff loss, maybe next year.
 
What game? Post season has been a thrill for all of us on the left coast.
 
I see Josh makes mention of "RAMS". Must be a new hockey team or something. It just occurred to me that, as a young man living in L.A., we had a football team called 'Rams'. They were such a rotten team that we booted the entire disgraceful outfit outta town. Good riddance. I think they went to some third world country somewhere.
Richard

Go Avs!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top