Training of the AHJ

P

Phil Ackland

KEC Expert
I have posted a couple of video messages on my website http://www.philackland.com/

One is addressing all exhaust cleaners -- In a hope that we could work together.

The other is how we are providing training to the AHJ. This, as the video says, is a powerful tool to improve the image of the cleaning field for all those who want to work with us.
 
I didn't know Phil was a comedian as well as a hood expert.He must be because 195.00 for a 60 minute video gave me the best laugh I've had all week:D
 
John
If you think that was funny, this will put you in stitches. Those who have seen it are telling me it's worth $299.00. LOL

Their comments are basically, -- "What is it worth for Crew Leaders to know how to protect the company from liability?" That is pretty much what that video is about -- NOT how to clean a hood.
 
Then why not make it $5,000.00?
 
Probably because I'm such a nice guy!??

NO, I thought this would be the best format to help people recognize deficiencies in systems and create a paper trail that has a good chance of protecting them, (nothing is a guarantee).

I have done a lot of expert fire testimony. When cleaners are involved, my cases have run about 75% defending them and 25% against. I am not the one who decides which side I am on. The attorneys call me.

Regardless of which side I am on, I am seeing where cleaners are either screwing up – no written warning to a restaurant that there is some construction problem OR they are getting off -- because they did, clearly, tell the customer about a problem. This is not a perfect rule but it has helped many in the past.

So that, for the most part, is what the Crew Leader video is -- How to train your lead guy on recognizing and reporting problems that could bite you, the owner, in the butt.

And on the subject of pricing, that Crew Leader video is only a small part of the Distance Certification Program, which was created for those who want to get certified without having to travel. http://www.philackland.com/distance.html

We thought some might want to buy the New Worker and Crew Leader videos separately.
 
John, I'm not here to criticize or defend Phil or You. But I think you see the value in association, By your title signature. Phil has worked hard for Our Industry, KEVC's. And what he provides is a tool or tools for Our trade. Ive been involver in more Lawsuits than I wanted too in this business. But the way Our world is today, Litigious(Sp), A person has to CYA. To put it in lay mens terms, " Cover your Hiney". But how do you put a price on a product? Too high, no one will buy, Too low , no one see the value of it. But this is whole other topic on marketing. I'm not trying to persuade or dissuade you, you can only make that decision.
Best regards.
 
The value of any item is strictly perceived. Who is to say that a video is worth $5 or $5000. If the information contained in the video saves me thousands of dollars then the video is worth that much to me. If on the other hand, the video contains worthless information, then it's not worth anything.

I have viewed both videos in question and have to say that without a doubt that Phil has hit the target market that he is aiming for.

Is it worth what he charges?

Let's see. $4000 for the camera
$5000 in production costs at least to produce a video of reasonable quality.

Information in the video is sound and goes along step by step with his certification manual.

I know that delco has a video that they sell, $50, and it's OK for a home movie type of video. That particular video isn't of any value to me, but I don't complain that they charge $50 for it.

Is Phil's video the end all, be all of videos about hood cleaning, probably not, but it's light years better than what is currently available in the market place (which isn't much).

People have no clue how expensive and time consuming it is to film and produce a video, even a simple one.

A hood cleaning video is very much of a niche market with so few potential buyers that one has to charge the amount that Phil is charging just to break even on his investment and hopefully make a decent living from his information.

Is a college text book really worth the $200 that is paid for it? Probably not, but from the information that it contains, allows one to earn hundreds of thousands of dollars.

So, I don't think twice about paying that money for that book or video and am glad that I did.

Rusty
 
There you have it, Phil recommended Rusty for the NFPA 96 commitee, Rusty recommends Phil's video. Now you know rest of the story. Don't know about the video but I don't think NFPA was thinking straight, my kids have more experience in hoods than Rusty and they are still in middle school. America is a great land of opportunity !!
 
NO offence Indiana Jones -- But you are full of it. :)

I had absolutely nothing to do with Mr. Clark's appointment to the 96. What you say is a bald face lie.

If you had the slightest knowledge of how NFPA works you would know that his appointment is something that is done on a level far above anything I (or anyone else on the actual committee) can affect.

Mr. Clark just showed some initiative. From what I heard, all he did was apply! How many of you can say the same?

America is a great land -- where anyone can speak their mind. Even if they have no knowledge of what they are talking about.
 
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For 2 1/2 years now I have studied the NFPA 96. Memorized it you could say. I now represent a nationwide network of certified hood cleaners. I have been properly trained, qualified and certified to clean kitchen grease exhaust systems (which I do now occasionally clean).

I represent currently 56 members and growing. I wasn't placed on the committee because of anything that Phil did or didn't do.

He was quite shocked that I was on as well, but that didn't stop him from shaking (not literally) my hand and welcoming me on board.

I have a distinct path that I am following and it just so happens that Phil's path and mine have crossed. That doesn't mean that he is helping me or that I'm helping him.

We are two separate entities with common interest, that are working toward a common goal, which is:

1. Educating the AHJ's
2. Educating the insurance companies
3. Educating the restaurant owners
4. Educating the health departments
5. Educating the individual person responsible for cleaning the grease exhaust system (crew leader).

So whether you think I'm qualified or not, I've got 56 people backing me up. I'm not just 1 voice being lost in a nation full of voices, but a small group of voices that are growing in strength.

So, Mr. Indy, in short, why are you so against people learning how to clean hoods properly, responsibly and with ethics?

Why are you against the idea of people charging to teach people how to clean hoods?

Using your logic that has been displayed over the past 1 1/2 years, you should clean hoods for free, because it's just not right to charge the customer.

We get paid in this industry for 2 things: what we do and what we know. They don't pay us $100/ hour because of what we do. They could hire 10 people at $6/ hr and have it done and save money. They hire us because of what we KNOW and the PROFESSIONALISM that we bring to the table.

Rusty
 
MR RUSTY

Just the other day you showed your knowledge of NFPA 96 regarding you layman question regarding Aluminum through away filters. What gets you in trouble with your peers is what you profess to know-you come out with statements that just don't pass muster.

I can think of 50 people who should be on that NFPA committee before you. I am not sure that our world will be better off because you with your 2.5 years as Hood Cleaner -Tester -Educator.

I wish you luck in you new quest for a National Merit that would give your group a better ride on the buss of LEGITIMACY.

PHILS TAPE

I viewed Phils Tape and it is worth every cent-good information and should used several times a year at company meetings. New employees should view the tape as well.
 
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Okay, let me see. Having umpteen years of experience makes you an expert. I've seen first hand for a whole year now, yes I've been cleaning hood for ONE year, how many veteran experts are out there in this field.

Most companies seem to be hiring some bum off of the street, handing him a pressure hose, if they have one, and telling them to clean the system. This method doesn't seem to be getting the job done properly, but this is the way its been done for years. Unqualified untrained people have been doing a terrible job.

So how do we change this? Educate the AHJ's, the insurance companies, people who CAN make a difference, and this doesn't take a 20 year veteran. It takes a qualified individual with a complete education of the industry standard. I don't know if you've looked at the NFPA 96 lately, its not that big of a book, and it does have pictures. I'd say if you studied this book for a couple of months that you could know it line by line. You then could pass this knowledge on to others, people who need to know this stuff.

I'm not trying to say that experience isn't important. Without it the NFPA standard wouldn't have the inormation that it has. What I'm saying is you don't have to have 20 years under your belt to understand the importance of enforcing and improving the standard.

Rusty has worked very hard to get into the position he is in now, and to suggest any other means of his accomplishment is third grade.

As for the buss of legitimacy, it was parked a while ago. This group is moving into first class jumbo jet. I also look forward to that national merit on my vest as a CHDCA member.
 
Building year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
RustyAce, I hardly know where to start. I remember how you were leading us to believe you were an experienced hood cleaner, when you had never cleaned a hood. You claim to now "be properly trained, qualified and certified" Who "properly trained, qualified and certified" you. You were running off at the mouth about your experience when you had none. You lead us to belive the hood cleaning company where you got your experience was your company, when it was not. Doesn't this hood cleaning company belong to your father -in-law? You told us you were a member of NFPA and you were not. You were telling us how your experience allowed you to certify people, when you did not have any experience. You told us you were certified by NFPA to offer these classes when NFPA does not certify people, methods or equipment. Then you stated you had studied NFPA 96 for 2 1/2 years and knew all about the standard, " Memorized it you could say".Then you asked about "ilegal " Aluminum filters, and how such a product could be sold. My information is that Tenneesse has allowed local jurisdictions to adopt codes as they see fit, and NFPA 96 has not been adopted as code or law by the State of Tennesee. Therefore the aluminum filter is probably not ilegal in Tennessee. I know aluminum filters are not ilegal in Oregon, (See iccsafe.org/cs/adoptions/stateadoptoins.xls). i suggest you look at the standard again. this time, open the pamphlet and look at the inside cover. That page in my copy of NFPA 96-2001 appears to be same as the 1998 edition.

And now you are good friends with Mr. Ackland. I can understand how he was shocked your were nominated to the NFPA 96 committe. Who did nominate you to he Committe?

You take Mr. Indy to task and ask why he is "against people learning how to clean hoods properly, responsibly and with ethics." I have not attended your classes so I cannot pass judgement on the "properly and responsibly" part of your classes. However, I have seen your ethics, and they are not to be used as an example to anyone. Your deceits continued until Mr David Saulque blew the whistle on you, exposing your lies. Only then did you admit to some of your lies and decietul tales. You claim to represent 56 people. Based on your record of deceit and dishonesty, I doubt you represent anyone but yourself. Does your audacity and bull shit know no bounds? Almost everyone of your posts is you, tooting your own horn.

Compare your strident noise with the demeanor and qulifications of Mr. Ackland. You would do well to emulate Mr. Ackland. He is a credit to the industry of exhaust cleaning.

Lest there be any doubt, I do not like people like RustyAce

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
NFPA Member 123425 since 1991
Charter Board Member Oregon Fire Equipment Dealers, 2003/2004 President
 
Phil Ackland, sorry to use your thread for my rant, something about people like RustyAce just piss me off.

I am interested in your video and even your AHJ book

Douglas Hicks
A person who has no time for bull shitters
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
 
Dear Mr. Hicks and Mr. Saulque,

I know for a fact that aluminum mesh filters (disposable) aren't suggested for use in grease exhaust hoods. Their legality is up to each state to decide. I was simply making a comment, trying not to step on the fragile glass “slippered” toes around here.

But whenever I say anything on this forum, there is such hatred and jealousy, that no matter what I say it will usually be slammed by 2 people.

David & Douglas.

David's argument is that I don't have credibility. So I have worked to improve my credibility by doing 2 things: building a nationwide network of hood cleaners who are successful and secondly becoming a Principal member of the NFPA 96 Tech. committee. The truth is it doesn't matter what I do or say, no amount of credibility will be good enough for David.

Doug's argument is that I'm a liar and have no ethics. It is a basic premise in debating that when you have no counter argument, attack the person that is talking. When you attack someone personally such as you have done, it just tells me that you are full of hot air and don't have much to say. So I just ignore what you have said and move on.

And as far as "tooting my own horn": If you were continuously being slammed for everything that you said, you would defend yourself as well. I am very proud of what my organization has accomplished in such a short period of time. I don't understand why you have such a problem with that.

I can back up everything that I have ever said on this forum. I never said that I teach people how to clean hoods (Roger does). You inferred that I was the one teaching the hood cleaning part of the course. That is your inability to read, not my inability to type. Roger is the one with 12 years of experience. What I teach is the theory of certification and have created CHDCA to allow others who agree with me to work together as a team. We have a team of instructors with varying degrees of experience. But what makes us so successful, is how successful our students are doing.

Now, how in the world did I get on the NFPA 96 Tech. Committee?
1st, I studied everything that I could find about the subject.
2nd, I read the rules.
3rd, I followed the rules.
4th, I applied.

If David knows of 50 people that should be on the committee, then maybe they should do as I have done.

I'm on the committee because of what I bring to the table. A growing network of successful, well trained, qualified and certified kitchen grease exhaust cleaners. Unlike others, we are working well together as a team with common goals.

I've been studying kitchen grease exhaust cleaning for 2 1/2 years. I would have to be extremely stupid not to know a subject matter well having studied it for so long. So sure, maybe I didn't know a whole lot when I first started posting on this forum 1 1/2 years ago, but I'm not the same person now that I was then. I have now been properly trained, qualified and certified to clean kitchen grease exhaust systems.

Give me a break. I have never joined in with the sophomoric bashing that some find so all-consuming. The majority of the time spent on this board has been spent defending myself and my organization, and posting legitimate information about kitchen grease exhaust cleaning.

Rusty
 
"I have been studying hood cleaning for 2.5 years". This can't be your full time job, this industry doesn't need a 2.5 year study. You are a marketer of training-and next year you could train Pest Control people.

What you bring to the table is your entrepreneur spirt, not your skill or your technical wizardry.

Our issues with your have been solely on your merits in response to questions that members of this bb have asked. In reading your long response one get the feeling that this guy knows very little of the working of a exhaust system, much less how to clean one.

I would say that you should be on the NFPA Marketing Committee, that is where you skill would be better suited.

There are a lot of people who have a much wider view of this industry than yourself. I am unclear as to why you were selected without notice that there was a slot to be filled.

As Dennis Miller would say, "This is my opionion and I could be wrong".
 
With all due respect guys, below is the orginal message. So far there has been no one comment on those actual little video clips?

Let's try again...

Training of the AHJ

I have posted a couple of video messages on my website http://www.philackland.com/

One is addressing all exhaust cleaners -- In a hope that we could work together.

The other is how we are providing training to the AHJ. This, as the video says, is a powerful tool to improve the image of the cleaning field for all those who want to work with us.
 
Phil

With all due respect, we let you post your message and I am sure if people wanted to respond further they would.

The members of this bb are not bound to a single topic, they and and do drift from time to time.

I for one has suggested your product three times in just the past day and I am sure other will do the same.

Thanks for you input.
 
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