What do you want?

Tony Shelton

Tony Shelton

BS Detector, Esquire
Ok, I'm ready again to take my beating:

Here goes:

PWI has a huge readership in the industry. PWI has been the turning point of orgs, industry direction, BMP's etc because of the open participation of members of the forum.

I know there are some who don't like to post in any thread I'm in. Apparently I'm a little to abrasive. That doesn't bother me one bit if you don't want to post because you don't have anything to back up your lame "feelings" based ideas. For you guys - hit the road, our industry has no place for whiners who do everything based on who they like or who they don't like and make decisions based on that garbage.

On the other hand, I've been proven wrong at least once. (though it escapes my memory as to when :) ) and I am more than willing to hear both sides of any issue and am open to changing my mind.

With all that in mind - What do you want from the PWNA?

What about BMP's? Here's where I stand on the issue. I think the PWNA probably has the right motives and really wants to help the contractors. I also know that they want to provide certifications. It's also been proven over and over again that certifications eventually become "requirements" to be able to work in some jurisdictions. Mike H. claims that this is not the intention of the PWNA BOD and I believe that he believes that. However, I believe that JUST LIKE THE KEC industry, the certifications will soon become requirements and will serve to funnel all in the industry to the PWNA. I don't think this is some "grand scheme" by the PWNA, but I do believe it will become a by product of certifying contractors with "BMP's".

I'd be more comfortabel with the PWNA working on whatever "practices" they want for their certification, but avoid the term BMP's. Membership renewals will determine whether they have chosen the right path.

What do you guys think about this?

There's no reason to demonize the PWNA on the boards for going the way they are going. They are looking for ways to increase membership and I truly believe that, for the most part, they are interested in helping contractors. There will always be the few that are looking to advance their own businesses at the expense of everyone else, just like there is in any endeavor, but I don't think the org as a whole needs to be put in that box.

1) So what do we do?

Another suggestion I would have would be to turn the whole "BMP" argument on it's head and present our entire industry as the "answer" to environmental issues as opposed to the problem. I think the Ft Worth BMP's not only admit that we are part of the problem, but they do not capitalize on the fact that we are the solution.

2) What do you guys think about that an if you agree - how do we implement it?

What about to splitting ANY suggested practices into various geographical areas and segments of the industry? For example, if you are cleaning up biological waste from the hospital, you shouldn't have to follow the same practices as when you are washing down a sidewalk in front of Starbucks with nothing but hot water.

3) What are your thoughts on this?

National orgs can be good. But many times their own objectives cause problems for the very people who made them. One example is the "smell abatement" thread I started in the coil cleaning section of this forum. One member suggested that I join the dominant "duct cleaning" org. When I responded that I couldn't find any benefit in it - (and later discovered that one of the largest and few duct cleaning businesses locally I trust have relinquished their membership) the PWI member stated that eventually I might be "forced" to be certified just to do business. What do you guys think of that and how can we stand as a group to make sure this doesn't happen in our industry.

You guys who think that "licensing" is somehow going to stop "lowballers" need to think long and hard about which partner you want to be when you hop into bed with the local and state authorities. You might think that you have some "say so" in the arrangement because you are a "legitimate" contractor, but I will guarantee you that every industry that has EVER thought that is now living the life of the b*tch to the government and they are sticking it to the respective industries like there's no tomorrow in every single case. Do you know that your "safe R134 freon that you can buy at Pep Boys or Autozone is about to be outlawed? It's just another way for the government to Give to those who have "donated" to them. And if you think for one second that YOU are big enough to have that kind of influence alone, I invite you to go ahead and try it and make a fool of yourself.

4) So how do we steer the org in the direction that is best for our industry as a whole? Is it better to deal with lowballers who have no way to fight back or better to deal with the government who can shut down your livelihood?

I'm preparing my proposals regarding the PWNA BMP's. Can you help them make sure they are going in the right direction?
 
I like it... :)

Man I just don't have the attention span to read these long posts. Lol
 
I firmly believe that no org will ever be of benefit to me in particular or wahers as a whole. They range from having corrupt leadership to thinking they know best for all. That's fine, as it is human nature. The problem stems from the public thinking theses clubs somehow represent me, or washers as a whole. They do not. They have no place in our business. What does a certification from one of these orgs possibly do for a contractor? Give them a warm, fuzzy feeling; make them believe a customer actually cares about a certification from a club with a couple hundred members? I believe that no BMP should be written by anyone claiming to represent the industry. It is not their place. If the intent is to educate, once again, why. The last thing I want is educted washers to compete against. I could only dream of every contractor within 200 miles of me going out of business. That should be the goal of anyone building or keeping a business. I don't think that Walmart invites Target to share in ideas that work great for them because they are in the same industry. Hug a tree, by snake oil, believe what ever makes you happy, just don't mess with the businesses of those that are trying to make a living.
 
Could and Org set standards?
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offdutyfireman said:
I firmly believe that no org will ever be of benefit to me in particular or wahers as a whole. They range from having corrupt leadership to thinking they know best for all. That's fine, as it is human nature. The problem stems from the public thinking theses clubs somehow represent me, or washers as a whole. They do not. They have no place in our business. What does a certification from one of these orgs possibly do for a contractor? Give them a warm, fuzzy feeling; make them believe a customer actually cares about a certification from a club with a couple hundred members? I believe that no BMP should be written by anyone claiming to represent the industry. It is not their place. If the intent is to educate, once again, why. The last thing I want is educted washers to compete against. I could only dream of every contractor within 200 miles of me going out of business. That should be the goal of anyone building or keeping a business. I don't think that Walmart invites Target to share in ideas that work great for them because they are in the same industry. Hug a tree, by snake oil, believe what ever makes you happy, just don't mess with the businesses of those that are trying to make a living.
Click to expand...
 
I joined the PWNA because I knew a form of BMP's were coming! I didn't expect PWNA to stop it or even make perfect BMP's for the industry. I just hoped they would bring some industry knowledge to the table. I know I've posted on this before, and with that, I post my complete dislike of orgs. I think last time I likened them to the horror of the socialist world of Ayn Rand novels (lots of crazy, liberal orgs for the industries)! I even called out a member of the roof cleaning org that I otherwise respect wholeheartedly!
I don't dislike Mike H., he's given great presentations at NCE roundtables! I think he has the members of PWNA at heart and is doing the best he can. I bet it would help his bottom line to step down, so he's not doing it for money (and I think we can agree it's not for all that power his position offers..!).
Regulations are coming! I'd rather PWNA write them than the city of Houston!

Tony, I think you're on to something! Make time to be on the BoD! If that's no reasonable, express your concerns to the PWNA. Perhaps there should be more member interaction (I'm the worst to suggest that, I didn't even fill out my member packet). I know it's easier to contribute to something financially when you're also contributing to it in other ways!
 
Well, there are a few here who posted what they want. I'm pretty sure I understand what William wants.

There are only 4 more days before the deadline to get in suggestions regarding the PWNA's proposed BMP's. If you guys don't participate, you get what you deserve and have nobody to blame but yourselves.

I plan to send off my fax to the PWNA prior to the deadline. The purpose of this post was to get some ideas of what we, as an industry want. And participation was virtually non-existent.

I know I write long posts, and I've tried to narrow it down. Here is what I think we need as an industry from the PWNA.

1) Refrain from writing anything that can be construed as "guidelines" for municipalities.

2) Go ahead and "certify" your members if you want. I have "Sonitx Certified" contractors. Just like there are "Maytag" certified repairmen and various other trade named certifications. Our certification means the contractor has been trained in our way of doing business. Just don't refer to BMP's or "CWA" or anything else that sounds official. You don't have enough members to withstand the furor that will happen if you do it.

3) LEARN the CWA and it's limitations if you are going to teach anybody about it. If you still think "nothing down the drain but rain" is what the CWA says, then you have no business teaching anything about it. Things are changing too. The EPA is short on money right now. North Dakota is drafting a law declaring the EPA has no jurisdiction in North Dakota. We must not move too fast on this. We may find that we played our hand too early. Manufacturers have been claiming that their equipment will be required in the next year and have been doing so for the past ten years. We need to take the offensive stance and see what is REALLY coming around the bend.

4) FIGHT for the contractors in LOCAL settings. Use any money you would have used to promote your "BMP's" to fly somebody to each location where a problem is rearing it's ugly head. Do it early, before the city councils have made up their minds.

5) FIGHT for the industry with a printed, youtube, facebook etc campaign that shows us as the SOLUTION instead of the problem. Stop acting like we are environmental criminals that need a leash to work.

Those are my suggestions for the proposed BMP's. Of course this is just my opinion and you are free to tell me to shove it. I just can't support any certification or BMP's that appear official and sit out like an apple on your website for local jurisdictions to pick. There's also no reason to give them ideas for reasons to put more restrictions on us than already exist on a federal level.

WE ARE THE SOLUTION.

That's your answer for this industry. Sing it, Play it, Show it, Whistle it, whatever you have to do, but get the word out. That would be a much better service to the industry than making BMP's that were initially made with fleet washing in mind accepted as the BEST practice in every jurisdiction and every type of cleaning.

These are my suggestions to the PWNA.

Anyone else?

(I'm going to post this in their thread also and on some other boards to try to get some feedback before I fax it.)
 
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