EPA Enforcement in 2012 Protects Communities From Harmful Pollution

RandyB said:
I've been following this for the last couple days. I learned a few things here. First all of the small contractors need a group that will represent us. Second WE need to educate ourselves about these issues. Third don't let someone else dictate your future. PLEASE folks get educated. That's the only way to make informed decisions.

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And the only real way to do this is to "Get involved". Good point Randy.
 
Tony Shelton said:
Hello Nigel, You are right, we need this data. That is why, about two years ago, when I asked Michael where the data on concrete cleaning was and he told me he only had done testing on Fleet Washing I was shocked.

We've had 20 years to get our own data. We are way behind. I have been working on this for a while with a university, but I have not come up with a cost yet. Being that the only people interested in it are contractors we will have to pool our money together to get it done. Anyone who would like to pledge a donation towards this should get in touch with Nicole at the UAMCC so we can determine how much we have to work with.

We (the UAMCC members) are also working on some presentations. I had hoped that the PW#A would not take this idea and run with it but thanks to this thread Robert has made it very clear that the last thing they want to do is present us any differently than the dozens of pictures he's posted presenting us as polluters. Any attempt at this point to change course would be seen, by anyone with a brain, as a shallow attempt to change how THEY (the PwnA) look to the contractors, not how the contractors look to the regulators.

Regarding the customers you would serve yourself well to simply listen to Ron Musgraves. Phoenix, as opposed to Houston or Ft Worth, is one of the cleanest cities in the nation. Ron was a pioneer in frequent cleanings and has been a major factor in the city's acceptance of frequent cleaning.

Are you going to get 8 cents a foot when you are cleaning once or even twice a week? No, but since Ron and Scott have been able to charge lower rates and still make plenty of money to travel all over the place helping contractors without asking vendors to pay their way, I'd say they have a winning combination with frequent cleaning.

You will have to ask Ron how to train your customers in that aspect. We are working on that here. My son now has almost as many weekly and biweekly accounts as he does monthly or quarterly.
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Tony:

We are already on the radar, there was a major meeting of AHJs today. About 30% of the time was spent on our industry. The major topic was revision all of the BMPs and making them stronger.

Enforcement ranges from warning to throwing the book at you the first time. Depends on who show up on the first offense.

These guys are the brightest and know their business. It is going to happen with or without our input. Congress has authorized increase clean up of the nation's waters, and they are in charge of doing it. These guys are at the top of the food chain, and we are the food!

They will not accept discharging our waste water into Storm Water BMPs as a general rule. They said that they would come in autonomously and make one post. Tell you how it is, they will not be drawn into a debate.

We have a choice, compromise and unite or fight among ourselves and lose.

The choice is yours
 
Robert Hinderliter said:
Tony:

We are already on the radar, there was a major meeting of AHJs today. About 30% of the time was spent on our industry. The major topic was revision all of the BMPs and making them stronger.

Enforcement ranges from warning to throwing the book at you the first time. Depends on who show up on the first offense.

These guys are the brightest and know their business. It is going to happen with or without our input. Congress has authorized increase clean up of the nation's waters, and they are in charge of doing it. These guys are at the top of the food chain, and we are the food!

They will not accept discharging our waste water into Storm Water BMPs as a general rule. They said that they would come in autonomously and make one post. Tell you how it is, they will not be drawn into a debate.

We have a choice, compromise and unite or fight among ourselves and lose.

The choice is yours
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So with this thread going on with over 16000 views you knew there was a "major meeting of AHJ's" today and you didn't share that information with us?

Thanks for working with us Robert.

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tomtucson said:
You have shown no compromise or willingness to unite.
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That is not true. i compromised a great deal to get things done at contractors request.

I will research and next week will post a the starting point. You do not have any idea of where we came from.
 
I was involved in one large test of our industry with the state of Oregon. The results are posted on PWNA.org website.

These test were not accepted outside of the State of Oregon.

Why do you think test by a contractors association would be accepted any better?

If you want test results, Oregon's are free for the taking.
 
Robert many of us can't thank you enough. The multiple hands you got last October says volumes. Why these guys here want to fight you instead of all working together at a compromise which is the right thing to do is baffling. I'm convince that no one will take us serious if we can't even take our own seriously.

You have been as resilient as a person I ever met. Forever trying to help others. Giving the UAMCC away for nothing to these newjacks says volumes. You did the same for a few of us as well and we failed at it.. Unfortunately.

Just keep doing your fact thing in here and slowly some of these guys will see that it's smart to work together because there is none here who's been standing up for contractors as long as you have. Not even close.

Do you ever regret giving away the UAMCC and you still get so much heartache from these guys trying to tear you down?
 
Robert Hinderliter said:
I was involved in one large test of our industry with the state of Oregon. The results are posted on PWNA.org website.

These test were not accepted outside of the State of Oregon.

Why do you think test by a contractors association would be accepted any better?

If you want test results, Oregon's are free for the taking.
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Always taking shots at others trying to volunteer. It's been a repeated road of destruction of character. Please refrain from attacks on volunteers. We are unlike you not funded by your sons business but spend our own dollars.

A responsible association will work with local officials. Demographics on pollution control will be much different in areas.

Oh levels in soils often can play a huge factor. Something I would expect to see more of since your pro reclaim.

I'm sure even if the states using there own lab they are resourcing samples elsewhere to be tested so if there's and error it can be eliminated. I have personal ever been involved in testing soil or water that didn't go to multiple labs.




Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
 
Clean County PW said:
Robert many of us can't thank you enough. The multiple hands you got last October says volumes. Why these guys here want to fight you instead of all working together at a compromise which is the right thing to do is baffling. I'm convince that no one will take us serious if we can't even take our own seriously.

You have been as resilient as a person I ever met. Forever trying to help others. Giving the UAMCC away for nothing to these newjacks says volumes. You did the same for a few of us as well and we failed at it.. Unfortunately.

Just keep doing your fact thing in here and slowly some of these guys will see that it's smart to work together because there is none here who's been standing up for contractors as long as you have. Not even close.

Do you ever regret giving away the UAMCC and you still get so much heartache from these guys trying to tear you down?
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John, this entire thread has been stressful and time consuming. I am truly thankful that you come up with uninformed posts like this to provide some comic relief.

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Tony Shelton said:
We need you Nigel!

Let us know what you find out on your own and help us figure out some testing parameters.

The frequent cleanings take time and the customer needs to be trained on the value.

Many of us contractors are too small to understand the value of high volume work over high dollar work. That needs to be addressed also.

There is a time and place for high dollar contracting, but it is not everytime and everyplace.


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I will do what I can, call anytime Tony, open to assisting.

As I mentioned before, everyone should perform their due diligence with respect to their local AHJ requirements/view points and educate themselves, seeking information, asking why, how, and if there is room for compromise; suggesting possible acceptable solutions that will be acceptable to both.

Change takes time , sometimes it will occur, other times it may not. (As with customers seeing the value of frequent cleanings)
 
Lets not lose sight of something again - this is not some optional service we are providing - The world needs to be cleaned, Period! We are not going to live in our own filth and we are a valuable asset. With the necessity of our work we should be given exemptions.
 
Tony Shelton said:
So with this thread going on with over 16000 views you knew there was a "major meeting of AHJ's" today and you didn't share that information with us?

Thanks for working with us Robert.

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It is hard to get exteme BMP's slipped into municipalites when you actually have contractors there. Gotta do that stuff on the side and announce that you did it later. Keep in mind a "major meeting" could have been coffee with the town hydrant flusher.
 
Tony Shelton said:
John, this entire thread has been stressful and time consuming. I am truly thankful that you come up with uninformed posts like this to provide some comic relief.

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Those are the facts Tony. The post was very well informed because many of us were there. Don't know why you have to keep knocking Robert on everything. He gets multiple well earned applauses and you still can't give him that.

He is the founding Forefather of your org the UAMCC. Why is it the top guns in your org. Can't even give this man a pint of respect yet you all have his org. The UAMCC on everything you guys are attached to such as your signature here.??

For all the lurkers here the facts are this--ROBERT HINDERLITER FOUNDED THE VERY ORG THE UAMCC.. Does it make any sense the leaders of this org. are the ones who show Robert the least respect??

Is there Jealousy in here because not only has Robert done so much positive and he founded the UAMCC causing some of these guys to tear him down??

Anyone??
 
Rance said:
Tony Shelton said:
So with this thread going on with over 16000 views you knew there was a "major meeting of AHJ's" today and you didn't share that information with us?

I am still waiting for an answer to this question Mr. Robert
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Would you want to give this out knowing that if you did there maybe an unpleasant phone call coming in there before your arrival?
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Tony Shelton said:
So with this thread going on with over 16000 views you knew there was a "major meeting of AHJ's" today and you didn't share that information with us?

Thanks for working with us Robert.

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Tony:

To stay on top of things you have to a network that keeps you informed; otherwise you cannot stay up.

It was an AHJ only meeting, and invited guests; I was not invited.
 
Clean County PW said:
Those are the facts Tony. The post was very well informed because many of us were there. Don't know why you have to keep knocking Robert on everything. He gets multiple well earned applauses and you still can't give him that.

He is the founding Forefather of your org the UAMCC. Why is it the top guns in your org. Can't even give this man a pint of respect yet you all have his org. The UAMCC on everything you guys are attached to such as your signature here.??

For all the lurkers here the facts are this--ROBERT HINDERLITER FOUNDED THE VERY ORG THE UAMCC.. Does it make any sense the leaders of this org. are the ones who show Robert the least respect??

Is there Jealousy in here because not only has Robert done so much positive and he founded the UAMCC causing some of these guys to tear him down??

Anyone??
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Question and observation... I was not around the industry at original formation of the UAMCC, but is it the same entity with the same vision/plan as before? I don't know, that is why I ask.

Jealousy, I doubt it. A belief in a different approach to the BMP issue and the role we play in pollution prevention and pressure washing maintenance perhaps.
 
offdutyfireman said:
It is hard to get exteme BMP's slipped into municipalites when you actually have contractors there. Gotta do that stuff on the side and announce that you did it later. Keep in mind a "major meeting" could have been coffee with the town hydrant flusher.
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Sorry, that was not the case here. Normal time to see results: 12 to 24 months; rest of the nation: 2 to 3 years.
 
Rance said:
Tony Shelton said:
So with this thread going on with over 16000 views you knew there was a "major meeting of AHJ's" today and you didn't share that information with us?

I am still waiting for an answer to this question Mr. Robert
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You are lucky; KY will probably see anything for about 3-years.

When I get confidential information, it stays confidential; sorry; that is how you build trust.
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