Should pressure washing companies be licensed?

Should pressure washing companies be licensed??

  • Yes

    Votes: 41 73.2%

  • No

    Votes: 15 26.8%
  • Total voters
    56
Henry Bockman said:
LOTS of questions, that's good, let's talk about this.



This isn't a UAMCC thing but, if your state requires you to have a license, the UAMCC does require you to have one, plus insurance. The PWNA has the same rules. I helped create them for PWNA actually a few years ago.



Exactly, in my state it's a Home Improvement License. The exam has nothing to do with pressure washing but you do have to know contracting laws, have insurance and get bonded to have a license. I know a home improvement licenses sounds like overkill but, aren't we improving homes and decks when we clean them?

Any more comments or questions??

By the way, I brought this up because I'm in the process of trying to get the MHIC to consider requiring PW contractors to become licensed to protect consumers. This is something I've been working on for years and I finally got approval to address the commission.
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Thanks for your comments Henry.

Even though I addressed you specifically, my questions are directed to anyone who shares the misguided view that licensing in an industry like ours does anything more than turning all control of the industry over to the companies with the deepest donation pockets.


As I stated in the thread on the other board what you (you being everyone who is "for" licensing) are advocating promises "protection" of consumers and a "raising" of industry standards but what it delivers is government interference in business, a reduction in available resources and generates higher prices. And for what? To put money in the pockets of the few who are slimy enough to have orchestrated the whole thing in their favor.

Your comment about the idea that pressure washers "beer guzzlers" and hacks is an East Coast thing and has no credence in my neck of the woods or most places in the commercial end of the business which always requires insurance.

Are there guys who don't know what they are doing? Yes. What happens to them? Do they continue on in business raping the consumer with poor service? No. They sell their equipment, break their equipment or just use it to pump more beer in the back yard. The industry regulates itself.

You wrote:
Don't you have insurance and these other expenses now? All of us have operating expenses, it's part of running a business. If a homeowner rents a power washer and screws up thier own property then they will learn a valuable lesson, they should hire a licensed professional next time! How many poor consumers hire someone to power wash their house or deck? Most do it themself already or hire an unlicensed hack that destroys their property.

BINGO! There is your self regulation. If a homeowner hires a guy without insurance once and he messes up he is now either a) educated or b) a moron. If he is educated he will require insurance next time. INSTANT EDUCATION. A hack can only go around so long before he is sued out of business or ends up on the local news. It's God's filter, a guy who is living off of screwing other people over intentionally can only go so long.

You also wrote:
The problem with that statement is there's more to running a legit business than that. What about insurance, experience, knowledge, equipment ect?? When I started up I didn't have a license, but I did have insurance. Then I got a letter from MHIC saying I need a license to repair gutters. Either I had to get one, stop doing repairs or I could be fined 5,000 and spend three years in jail.

What about insurance. I've been self employed full time since 1997. I've carried insurance 12 years and never had a single claim. How many claims have you had? What are the chances of a claim? Can't a guy get a little slack starting up?

What about experience? How much did you have when you started your business. Were you an instant expert or was there a time when, just maybe, you did a job that qualified as a "hack job". Give a startup guy some slack!

Did that license instantly make you an expert gutter repairman? Did your getting that license all the sudden make you a better businessman? I submit that it didn't do anything except make you legal and put another piece of paper in your hand that the government can choose to snatch away whenever it pleases.

Everything above this line was written to Henry, but not personal to him, rather directed to anyone advocating licensure.

Everything below this line directly to Henry:

Henry, I know you've done a lot for pressure washers. You've helped me before. Please, before you consider digging yourself into the government and putting yourself out as an authority to the locals, remember where you started and that even you once worked without a license because you didn't even know you had to have one.

If it remains as simple as your MHIC license surely there can be no one who can complain about that. But this is an industry where the government has not historically gotten into our business and inviting them in is opening up a pandora's box. You can rest assured it won't stay that simple once the government smells the money.

Thanks Henry. I haven't meant any disrespect, and I hope you haven't taken it that way.
 
Here in Florida I had a rescreenining license for replacing screens on porches and pool enclosures. I have had this license for 15 years and all of a sudden this year I have to take a licensing exam. The cost is 500 for the books another 500 to take the exam, and double the old cost to renew each year. This was put into effect by the large aluminum companies lobbying the county so they could basically get rid of their smaller competition.

Their rationale is that it will prevent out of state contractors from coming here after a hurricane and just purchasing an easy to get occupational license. Those out of state contractors never purchased a license anyway and if the county thinks they have the manpower to police all the contractors after hurricane they are out of their minds. To me it shows once again the county just wants your money and the larger companies will do anything to take all the business!!
 
You can't put too many regualtions on people the public needs to take the responsibilty of protecting themselves and asking for license, insurance, references, and workers comp.
 
Tony Shelton said:
Thanks for your comments Henry.

Even though I addressed you specifically, my questions are directed to anyone who shares the misguided view that licensing in an industry like ours does anything more than turning all control of the industry over to the companies with the deepest donation pockets.


As I stated in the thread on the other board what you (you being everyone who is "for" licensing) are advocating promises "protection" of consumers and a "raising" of industry standards but what it delivers is government interference in business, a reduction in available resources and generates higher prices. And for what? To put money in the pockets of the few who are slimy enough to have orchestrated the whole thing in their favor.

Nah, I'm not doing this to make more money, I just want to protect home owners. If you had seen the amount of damages my crews see every day on decks and houses that were done by guys in my area, you would understand. I'll add one photo below. I'm advocating for licensing requirements in the state of Maryland

Your comment about the idea that pressure washers "beer guzzlers" and hacks is an East Coast thing and has no credence in my neck of the woods or most places in the commercial end of the business which always requires insurance.

No, this is a nationwide problem I'm sure. But, I'm not trying to change the world here, just my little corner of it.

Are there guys who don't know what they are doing? Yes. What happens to them? Do they continue on in business raping the consumer with poor service? No. They sell their equipment, break their equipment or just use it to pump more beer in the back yard. The industry regulates itself.

Actually most of these guys manage to stay in business for about 2-3 years. Just imagine how much damage they do before they quit.

You wrote:
Don't you have insurance and these other expenses now? All of us have operating expenses, it's part of running a business. If a homeowner rents a power washer and screws up thier own property then they will learn a valuable lesson, they should hire a licensed professional next time! How many poor consumers hire someone to power wash their house or deck? Most do it themself already or hire an unlicensed hack that destroys their property.

BINGO! There is your self regulation. If a homeowner hires a guy without insurance once and he messes up he is now either a) educated or b) a moron.

Or, what usually happens is they believe that all PW companies are like that and they decide to do it themselves next time. Then make the damage even worse.

If he is educated he will require insurance next time. INSTANT EDUCATION. A hack can only go around so long before he is sued out of business or ends up on the local news. It's God's filter, a guy who is living off of screwing other people over intentionally can only go so long.

True but the damage is already done, the hack has no insurance to cover the damages and they just dissapear, leaving the home owner with expensive repairs and a bad impression of all power washers. I wise man once said, God only helps those that help themselves.

You also wrote:
The problem with that statement is there's more to running a legit business than that. What about insurance, experience, knowledge, equipment ect?? When I started up I didn't have a license, but I did have insurance. Then I got a letter from MHIC saying I need a license to repair gutters. Either I had to get one, stop doing repairs or I could be fined 5,000 and spend three years in jail.

What about insurance. I've been self employed full time since 1997. I've carried insurance 12 years and never had a single claim. How many claims have you had? What are the chances of a claim? Can't a guy get a little slack starting up?

I've had 2 claims in 20 years, not related to pressure washing because we know what were doing. No, a guy can't get any slack. Why should anyone be allowed to damage someones home just because they don't know any better?

What about experience? How much did you have when you started your business. Were you an instant expert or was there a time when, just maybe, you did a job that qualified as a "hack job". Give a startup guy some slack!

I didn't take on a job that I didn't know how to do and besides, there are training courses out there and lots of contractors that are willing to teach you. Hell when I started up 20 years ago there wasn't even really a WWW, look at all the information there is online and yet, guys still don't learn how to do things correctly. The knowledge is out there and if a new guy doesn't take advantage of that, then he has no business being in business.

Did that license instantly make you an expert gutter repairman? Did your getting that license all the sudden make you a better businessman? I submit that it didn't do anything except make you legal and put another piece of paper in your hand that the government can choose to snatch away whenever it pleases.

No, the license had nothing to do with actually doing work. It was about laws, contracting regulations, making sure you had insurance, bonding, and yep, a background check for major issues like a recent bankruptcy and felonies. Taking that all into consideration, yes it did make me a "better" contractor because it made me a businessman, not just some handy guy trying to make some extra cash on the side.

Everything above this line was written to Henry, but not personal to him, rather directed to anyone advocating licensure.

Everything below this line directly to Henry:

Henry, I know you've done a lot for pressure washers. You've helped me before. Please, before you consider digging yourself into the government and putting yourself out as an authority to the locals, remember where you started and that even you once worked without a license because you didn't even know you had to have one.

The funny thing was I did check to see if I had to be licensed, at the time they said no. Then they changed it a couple years later. Am I an authority, well in some ways yes but so is everyone on here that is running a legit business and knows what they are doing. Don't you sell yourself to your customers as an authority on wood restoration to get the job?? Besides, if not me, who else? I think theres maybe 3 other companies in this state that have been providing pressure washing as long as I have. I've taken almost every training course there is out there and we've done literally tens of thousands of house washes and decks over 20 years.

If it remains as simple as your MHIC license surely there can be no one who can complain about that. But this is an industry where the government has not historically gotten into our business and inviting them in is opening up a pandora's box. You can rest assured it won't stay that simple once the government smells the money.

That's what I'm talking about, state licensing. I guess some people thought I was talking about an industry license. That would be great too but it's going to be probably another 10 years before that happens.

Thanks Henry. I haven't meant any disrespect, and I hope you haven't taken it that way.
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Nah, I'm cool. I want to get people thinking about this kind of stuff to see how licensing, or non licensing in their own state is affecting the pressure washing industry in their areas.

screenin4u said:
You can't put too many regualtions on people the public needs to take the responsibilty of protecting themselves and asking for license, insurance, references, and workers comp.
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Unfortuanetly in MD the rules aren't very clear on who needs a license. Two years ago you only needed a license to stain decks. Last year you could stain with a water based stain without a license. This year I'm not sure about decks but if you use chemicals you have to be licensed. BUT, soap was okay, no license needed. WTH?? Soap is a chemical! There needs to be safe and sane regulation to protect home owners and the pressure washing industry.
 
Henry Bockman said:
Nah, I'm cool. I want to get people thinking about this kind of stuff to see how licensing, or non licensing in their own state is affecting the pressure washing industry in their areas.



Unfortuanetly in MD the rules aren't very clear on who needs a license. Two years ago you only needed a license to stain decks. Last year you could stain with a water based stain without a license. This year I'm not sure about decks but if you use chemicals you have to be licensed. BUT, soap was okay, no license needed. WTH?? Soap is a chemical! There needs to be safe and sane regulation to protect home owners and the pressure washing industry.
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If its so unclear why not lobby to remove licensing altogether instead of lobbying the other way?

You can't. Here's why, because the government is already involved and once they are in, they are in for good. Even if they spend 20 million to enforce the licensing and only bring in 15 million in revenue from it, there's no getting the government out once they are in. They will just keep raising it and raising it or raise other taxes to make up for the shortfall.

That's why it's better to keep quiet and enjoy the freedom while it's there.

Henry, I'm going to predict what is going to happen here. It's going to get started in a few states. Then a large company that neither you or I have ever heard of is going to come in with all the money and insert themselves in a position to make all the rules eventually pushing everyone out but themselves.
 
screenin4u said:
Here in Florida I had a rescreenining license for replacing screens on porches and pool enclosures. I have had this license for 15 years and all of a sudden this year I have to take a licensing exam. The cost is 500 for the books another 500 to take the exam, and double the old cost to renew each year. This was put into effect by the large aluminum companies lobbying the county so they could basically get rid of their smaller competition.

Their rationale is that it will prevent out of state contractors from coming here after a hurricane and just purchasing an easy to get occupational license. Those out of state contractors never purchased a license anyway and if the county thinks they have the manpower to police all the contractors after hurricane they are out of their minds. To me it shows once again the county just wants your money and the larger companies will do anything to take all the business!!
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You already live in one of the most restrictive areas of the nation. You can't even touch an air conditioner in Florida without an HVAC license. Contrast that with Nevada where I recently had a huge customer ask me to add belt changes to my service so I wrote the st*te contr*ctors board and here is my response:
docu0001-1.jpg


But ironically, Florida is chock full of con-artists and hacks working on air conditioners every day. But Nevada isn't. How's do you figure that? Here's how, in Nevada you aren't burdened with a lot of red tape and taxes and fees to keep you out of the business. And even getting into the business is easy. Because of that, more legitimate businesses open up. In Florida the mountain of government is too high, so hacks just do as they please and wait to get caught.
 
The problem here as I see it is most people that live here now (excluding myself- born here) are from the northeast and they seem to love regulation and government being involved in everything. Believe it or not you have to get a permit to change a front door, change out a water heater, etc....
 
Why go the other way? I've had an MHIC license for years now and the fee is nothing.

I've tried to put myself in your position to see why you think it's a big deal but I don't get it. I don't understand why the word license makes everyone so queesy. The government is not out to get you, repeat, the government is not out to get you. Put away the foil hat and relax..lol

Are you against home builders being required to have a license? Electricians, plumbers ect.. Why should power washing be any different? We have training, we work on homes and our services are needed. What's the big deal in paying 400 bucks every couple of years to protect consumers from hacks and to prove your legit and honest?
 
Henry Bockman said:
Why go the other way? I've had an MHIC license for years now and the fee is nothing.

I've tried to put myself in your position to see why you think it's a big deal but I don't get it. I don't understand why the word license makes everyone so queesy. The government is not out to get you, repeat, the government is not out to get you. Put away the foil hat and relax..lol

Are you against home builders being required to have a license? Electricians, plumbers ect.. Why should power washing be any different? We have training, we work on homes and our services are needed. What's the big deal in paying 400 bucks every couple of years to protect consumers from hacks and to prove your legit and honest?
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I'm against ANY licenses being added to what is already required. There is NOTHING that can be done about those, but there is something that can be done about our industry.

Here is your list of cities from your website that you work at that's two states, two counties, and 50 towns/cities.

Do you have a business license to work in all those individual states? When I had the dry cleaners I had to be licensed in Nevada, Clark County, Henderson and Las Vegas and had to pay them all every year because I crossed borders to make deliveries. Do you pay in all those cities to operate? If not, chances are you are illegal right now in at least a few of those areas.

Who's going to protect those homeowners in the cities you aren't licensed in?

How would you like for Terry, (like he posted on the other board) to be snooping around every neighborhood you tried to clean a roof in calling the police because you haven't been licensed in that particular town? HE'S GETTING RID OF UNLICENSED HACKS!

Here's your list:

WASHINGTON DC
North West, North East, South West, South East, Capitol Hill
VIRGINIA
Prince William County
Bristow, Catharpin, Dale City, Dumfries, Gainesville, Haymarket, Nokesville, Occoquan, Prince William, Quantico, Triangle, Woodbridge
Fairfax County
Arlington,Alexandria,Annandale, Baileys Crossroads, Belleview, Burke, Centreville,Chantilly, Clifton Community, Dunn Loring, Engleside, Fairfax, FairfaxStation, Falls Church, Fort Belvoir, Great Falls, Greenway, Herndon,Jefferson Manor, Kingstowne, Lorton, Mason Neck, McLean, Merrifield,Mosby, Mount Vernon, Newington, North Springfield, Oak Hill, Oakton,Pimmit, Reston, Seven Corners, Springfield, Sully Station, Vienna, West McLean, West Springfield


Please don't tell me your license is going to be reciprocal with all those cities states and towns. I posted my answer from the state of Nevada regarding my need for an HVAC license in NEVADA. I bid an account that takes us all the way into Arizona, New Mexico and West Texas. Here is the answer from West Texas:


Mr. Shelton,

To be able to clean a/c coils, you need to be either a licensed contractor or a technician working under a contractor.

Below I have listed the requirement to become a a/c technician along with an attached application:
(a) An applicant shall submit a complete application and appropriate fees.

(b) The term of an air conditioning and refrigeration technician's registration one year.

(c) A registration is not transferable.

(d) An applicant for registration as an air conditioning and refrigeration technician will be issued a temporary registration that is valid for 21 days if the applicant:

(1) has not been convicted of a criminal offense, or been placed on deferred adjudication; and

(2) pays the required fee.


Thank you for contacting TDLR

They later informed me that even if I was a licensed HVAC contractor my license would do me no good there because they only accept licenses from GA and NC. What a wonderful world of geniuses we have running our government.


How do all the poor Nevadans live life without the protection of the almighty government? Its a wonder they aren't all dead from the poor workmanship of the coil cleaners and air filter changers.
 
Who protects everyone in other states?? Virginia and DC have their own licensing requirements. I don't know what they require for residential services, I only provide commercial services outside of Montgomery County Maryland. Right now I'm focusing on Maryland since that's where I do most of my work, where I live, and see the most problems..
 
I posted this over at the UAMCC.

By all means. I think it hurts our industry by not having it licensed. I see these Datsun pick ups with these little washers. No ID on the trucks. They undercut the industry with less than avg. quality of work. Customer gets upset and our industry gets a bad name.

Here in California, at least for garage cleaning, they are requiring that you get a discharge permit at the minimum. You need to prove that your rig is able to do the work and that your equipment meets the requirements set forth by the EPA for disposal of Class II Hazardous Waste. That sure weeded out the undesirables.

I think that we need more requirements for each of the fields of pressure washing so that it becomes specialized.

Look it, I am a garage cleaner. However I know nothing about KEC. Should I just go into a restaurant and start doing exhaust under a fly by night name; a business lic that I just got yesterday? When I screw up... no problem. Just close that one down and go get another business lic and start all over.

I would expect that field to have requirements for my company to follow and fines if I do not. Just because I have a pressure washer, doesn't mean I know everything about all fields of the industry.

I know garages. thats what I stay with. I have 20 years experience in the parking garage field. Unless I have some standardize training, I should not go into fleet washing, KEC or any other type of pressure washing work until I do get trained. The state should be encouraged to help standardize the field.


That's my 2 cents.
 
I know it won't stop the hackers, at least not at first. But it depends on the state if this would work.

For example:

In California, the owner who hires the garage cleaner MUST hire from a list that the gov gives to the owner. HE HAS NO CHOICE. There are currently 12 companies qualified to clean Parking Structures in N. California. If you hire from outside the approved vendor list, someone turns you in, or you get caught, the owner will be fined $3,000 each day the work that was done plus disposal fee's. The pressure washer will be fined up to 10k and be banned for 1 year, but good luck in getting another permit.... they will be watching you very closely. If it happens again, they will go after both parties even more aggressively.

Word got out on this and the hackers stopped with the cleaning of a garage after a few got fined.

This list is updated every month. If your state did this, there would be allot less hackers and the industry pricing would stabilize for the quality the owner and state expects.
 
Henry Bockman said:
I'd like to get as many people as possible to vote on this...

Think about it for a minute, we work with pretty extreme pressure, temperatures, and some pretty nasty chemicals to do our jobs.

Take into consideration that some deck strippers are rated at 13 on the Ph scale.

Some of the acids we use are rated at 1 or 2 on the Ph scale.


Think about the amount of damage that 4,000 PSI can cause in inexperienced hands to wood, siding and concrete.



Should'nt there be some type of protection for consumers against these extremes?


I honestly believe that pressure washing should have it's own government codes (Cage ect) We have those now!


We should have our own insurance codes. We have those now I heard!


Wouldn't the next logical step to make pressure washing a recognized industry be some type of licensing requirements? This will also help to seperate us from companies that are working for extra cash on weekends, and to help raise the bar and protect consumers.


I vote yes, pressure washing companies should be licensed.
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NAAHH what for, just come on down to FL and get at it!! The cheap bastards down here dont care if you have insurance or a license, as long as it's cheap.
 
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