Should pressure washing companies be licensed?
- Thread starter Henry Bockman
- Start date
junker1
Roundtable Host 2009
everyone north of portland has issues.
I am not for state federal or county licensing. I do not want the goverment into my buisness, any more than they already are.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
There are only two groups of people who want more licensing in our profession:
Group 1) Incompetent contractors who suck at cleaning and can't do good enough work or work efficiently enough to compete with lowballers, but know how to work the government system.
Group 2) Gullible contractors who have been convinced by Group #1 that licensing will be a positive more move for our industry.
So, as we discuss this we need to think about which category is applicable to each of us....
incompetent,
stupid,
or opposed to the idea.
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Group 1) Incompetent contractors who suck at cleaning and can't do good enough work or work efficiently enough to compete with lowballers, but know how to work the government system.
Group 2) Gullible contractors who have been convinced by Group #1 that licensing will be a positive more move for our industry.
So, as we discuss this we need to think about which category is applicable to each of us....
incompetent,
stupid,
or opposed to the idea.
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Scott Stone
New member
As a gullible contractor, I don't have a problem being licensed. The thing of it is, I am a licensed as a pressure washing contractor, but the beauty is, the reason I am required to have a license for my pressure washing business is because of the nonpressure washing things that we do as part of our business.
There are reasons to be licensed, and not all of them are negative.
BTW, I am pretty sure that we do some really good work.
There are reasons to be licensed, and not all of them are negative.
BTW, I am pretty sure that we do some really good work.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Scott, what are the reasons to have contractor type licensing for power washers that aren't. Negative in the end?
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Doug Rucker
Roundtable Host 2009
It can create jobs in the xxx,xxx.xx range...ahh just kidding.
Scott Stone
New member
Actually, xx,xxx,xxx.xx range.
The pressure washing part of my business requires no license. Unknown to most pressure washing contractors in Arizona, Graffiti removal does required a license. Also, any repairs I do at Bus Stops requires a license. That keeps the riff raff out of my part of the business, or else only allows the big money riff raff in.
Honestly, for what I do, the resources need to be established to be able to even sit down and play the game. These contracts are not for a start up contractor, or for someone that has no financial resources.
Ohio pressure wash
New member
Money is always the motive whenever there is an idea designed to limit competition...IMHO, licensing is a kissing cousin to certification.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Licensing makes us look so much more professional and do such a better job......right? How about these licensed guys (taken from an HVAC board)
First let me begin by saying that I appreciate any and all suggestions regarding our mess of an A/C system – I happened to run across this thread doing a search for “Pureatech.”
We purchased two (2) Pureatech systems in February 2003. Our home is approx. 2700 sq. ft. We live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and thought we researched the product thoroughly before purchase. The company was, and remains, licensed in our area with no BBB complaints and a long list of testimonials (including well-known local radio personalities).
Here is a timeline of events for your critique:
April 2002: Age 33 – I finally snag a husband and relocate with him to Weatherford, TX.
May – Dec 2002: I develop terrible breathing problems – after months of illness I see an allergist who diagnoses me with adult asthma. I start taking medication for allergies and asthma (which I’ve never had before now). My friends and family joke that I must be allergic to my new husband.
Feb 2003: I am pregnant with our first child. My doctor keeps me on some meds and switches others. I feel short of breath all the time. Local radio personalities sing the praises of the Pureatech system after having them installed in their own homes. We call. They come. We pay . . . and pay, and pay. Yes, the system is expensive. But with a list of testimonials as long as your arm, we figure our health and the health of our new baby is worth it. They have a money-back guarantee and FDA approval as a Class II medical device.
·BEFORE installation, a company is sent to clean and disinfect our ductwork. We wrongly assume that any problems will be brought to our attention.
·AFTER installation, the sales rep instructs us to keep our fans running all the time, saying “You have to keep the air moving for me to clean it.” When we balk at the potential energy cost, he assures us that because of the improved airflow, our utility bills will actually be LOWER than before.
March 2003: As the temperature in Texas starts to rise, we decide to turn on our A/C system. Much to our surprise, the temp in our house does not go down. In fact, it rises. Pureatech tells us this isn’t possible. After 2 weeks of complaining, they send someone out. The installer has made a mistake with the Pureatech unit and its proximity to the “heat-strips” in our attic. When the technician comes down from the attic we have cool air and assume (I know, I know) that it has been fixed properly.
April 2003: The motor on one of our units burns out. Pureatech does the repair work. They tell us the coil was filthy and is the cause of the problem. They show us YEARS of filthy buildup - they chide us for never cleaning it. We explain that we have only lived in the house 1 year, so ALL the muck cannot be from us . . . see where I’m going with this? If it was in such crappy condition before installation, why didn’t someone TELL US?? We endure the lecture . . . we don’t care anymore as long as we have air . . .
May 2003: Our electric bills average $500 or more during the hotter months and hover around $350 during cooler months. I know I am a miser, but this seems excessive, especially when I’m walking around sweating all the time. I keep the temp around 80 deg during the day. When my husband comes home from work we indulge ourselves and turn it down to 72 deg. Our bills are larger than the GDP of a small country.
July 2003: We contract with Home Depot to have a radiant barrier applied inside our attic. The installers are sub-contractors. They steal stuff out of our garage.
August 2003: We ask a company specializing in attic ventilation to tell us why our bills aren’t going down. They recommend two (2) new electric attic fans and twenty-two (22) new soffit vents. We get out our checkbook.
September 2003: There is a virtual weather system in our front hallway. I expect a thunderstorm to develop at any moment. We hire a company to help us us with this seemingly unsolvable problem. They run a whole-house test and tell us that the leakage in our ducts is in the “catastrophic” range. Great. Again, I assumed the Pureatech folks would have alerted us to anything in our ducts that qualified as “catastrophic” especially now that we are expected to run the fans continuously.
They recommend capping and sealing all our existing wall returns and installing 3 new ceiling returns. They also say that Pureatech is a fine system and that we should continue using it, as well as our current A/C units. They recommend replacing them in approx. 2 years. (They were installed in 1992). We are praised for having the attic fans, soffit vents, and radiant barrier installed.
We are so busy with the new baby that we seriously contemplate MOVING rather than spending another DIME on our HVAC system.
June 2004: Heavy rains in our area are well above normal ranges. Our closets start to smell . . . not sure like what, but bad. I notice dark splotches forming around the vents in our bedroom – I ignore it and hope it will go away. I hope it is dirt. I hope anything other than MOLD. My hopes are dashed when I go through my closet and notice that all my work clothes are furrier than usual. I haven’t worn them since I got pregnant, so I decide to check them out. Everything in our closet is covered in mold. The clothes we wear and launder frequently have escaped, but everything else is GROWING. We have many items dry-cleaned, but eventually have to throw away some items that won’t lose the smell . . . ever see the episode of Seinfeld with the stinky car? Imagine that on your husband’s new leather jacket you bought him for Christmas.
April 2005: We have decided that we love our home, despite the crazy A/C system. We want to stay. We ask ANOTHER company to come out and give us a second opinion on the estimate the previous company gave us. Here were some things they reported:
·The high-pressure switch to our heat pump has been disabled.
·One of the heat-strips in the attic has been disconnected.
·Our heat pump is not currently operating. . . apparently we have been using emergency heat.
·The attic vents were wired to the pre-existing attic light and do not function unless the light is left on at all times. Furthermore, they are powered by two (2) separate extension cords.
·The HVAC system is held together with massive lengths of tape (not screws). When the technician attempts to re-assemble the unit with screws, he has to drill new holes because the old ones are stripped.
·He works in our attic for several hours (for free, as part of a free estimate) and comes to the conclusion that we need two (2) new systems and all new ductwork with an R- factor of 39
·He advises against the recommendation of Company 1 to seal and cap our existing returns.
Is it just me? How are regular people supposed to measure and evaluate products and services? How did things in our attic get to be such a mess when we have only sent licensed professionals up there since we’ve lived here? Each person who evaluates our system has a different opinion, but they are mostly all sure that the previous guy screwed something up. EVERYONE we deal with has good references. Our terrible experiences have made us extremely gun-shy.
Any advice on wall returns, new ductwork vs. sealing old ductwork, and the future of our Pureatech system is appreciated. After reading the previous 7 pages, I am not sure that Pureatech caused our mold problem, but rather exacerbated an existing duct problem.
This is what licensing does to a profession. NOTHING, ZERO, except take money out of your pocket to pay some fat bureaucrat with a fat pension in his future to collect your hard earned money to pay his fat butt and his fat staff who come out an harass you whenever they can.
How can anyone be so stupid as to believe licensing will help our industry when it has done absolutely nothing to increase accountability in other industries.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Lesson over.
Carry on.
First let me begin by saying that I appreciate any and all suggestions regarding our mess of an A/C system – I happened to run across this thread doing a search for “Pureatech.”
We purchased two (2) Pureatech systems in February 2003. Our home is approx. 2700 sq. ft. We live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and thought we researched the product thoroughly before purchase. The company was, and remains, licensed in our area with no BBB complaints and a long list of testimonials (including well-known local radio personalities).
Here is a timeline of events for your critique:
April 2002: Age 33 – I finally snag a husband and relocate with him to Weatherford, TX.
May – Dec 2002: I develop terrible breathing problems – after months of illness I see an allergist who diagnoses me with adult asthma. I start taking medication for allergies and asthma (which I’ve never had before now). My friends and family joke that I must be allergic to my new husband.
Feb 2003: I am pregnant with our first child. My doctor keeps me on some meds and switches others. I feel short of breath all the time. Local radio personalities sing the praises of the Pureatech system after having them installed in their own homes. We call. They come. We pay . . . and pay, and pay. Yes, the system is expensive. But with a list of testimonials as long as your arm, we figure our health and the health of our new baby is worth it. They have a money-back guarantee and FDA approval as a Class II medical device.
·BEFORE installation, a company is sent to clean and disinfect our ductwork. We wrongly assume that any problems will be brought to our attention.
·AFTER installation, the sales rep instructs us to keep our fans running all the time, saying “You have to keep the air moving for me to clean it.” When we balk at the potential energy cost, he assures us that because of the improved airflow, our utility bills will actually be LOWER than before.
March 2003: As the temperature in Texas starts to rise, we decide to turn on our A/C system. Much to our surprise, the temp in our house does not go down. In fact, it rises. Pureatech tells us this isn’t possible. After 2 weeks of complaining, they send someone out. The installer has made a mistake with the Pureatech unit and its proximity to the “heat-strips” in our attic. When the technician comes down from the attic we have cool air and assume (I know, I know) that it has been fixed properly.
April 2003: The motor on one of our units burns out. Pureatech does the repair work. They tell us the coil was filthy and is the cause of the problem. They show us YEARS of filthy buildup - they chide us for never cleaning it. We explain that we have only lived in the house 1 year, so ALL the muck cannot be from us . . . see where I’m going with this? If it was in such crappy condition before installation, why didn’t someone TELL US?? We endure the lecture . . . we don’t care anymore as long as we have air . . .
May 2003: Our electric bills average $500 or more during the hotter months and hover around $350 during cooler months. I know I am a miser, but this seems excessive, especially when I’m walking around sweating all the time. I keep the temp around 80 deg during the day. When my husband comes home from work we indulge ourselves and turn it down to 72 deg. Our bills are larger than the GDP of a small country.
July 2003: We contract with Home Depot to have a radiant barrier applied inside our attic. The installers are sub-contractors. They steal stuff out of our garage.
August 2003: We ask a company specializing in attic ventilation to tell us why our bills aren’t going down. They recommend two (2) new electric attic fans and twenty-two (22) new soffit vents. We get out our checkbook.
September 2003: There is a virtual weather system in our front hallway. I expect a thunderstorm to develop at any moment. We hire a company to help us us with this seemingly unsolvable problem. They run a whole-house test and tell us that the leakage in our ducts is in the “catastrophic” range. Great. Again, I assumed the Pureatech folks would have alerted us to anything in our ducts that qualified as “catastrophic” especially now that we are expected to run the fans continuously.
They recommend capping and sealing all our existing wall returns and installing 3 new ceiling returns. They also say that Pureatech is a fine system and that we should continue using it, as well as our current A/C units. They recommend replacing them in approx. 2 years. (They were installed in 1992). We are praised for having the attic fans, soffit vents, and radiant barrier installed.
We are so busy with the new baby that we seriously contemplate MOVING rather than spending another DIME on our HVAC system.
June 2004: Heavy rains in our area are well above normal ranges. Our closets start to smell . . . not sure like what, but bad. I notice dark splotches forming around the vents in our bedroom – I ignore it and hope it will go away. I hope it is dirt. I hope anything other than MOLD. My hopes are dashed when I go through my closet and notice that all my work clothes are furrier than usual. I haven’t worn them since I got pregnant, so I decide to check them out. Everything in our closet is covered in mold. The clothes we wear and launder frequently have escaped, but everything else is GROWING. We have many items dry-cleaned, but eventually have to throw away some items that won’t lose the smell . . . ever see the episode of Seinfeld with the stinky car? Imagine that on your husband’s new leather jacket you bought him for Christmas.
April 2005: We have decided that we love our home, despite the crazy A/C system. We want to stay. We ask ANOTHER company to come out and give us a second opinion on the estimate the previous company gave us. Here were some things they reported:
·The high-pressure switch to our heat pump has been disabled.
·One of the heat-strips in the attic has been disconnected.
·Our heat pump is not currently operating. . . apparently we have been using emergency heat.
·The attic vents were wired to the pre-existing attic light and do not function unless the light is left on at all times. Furthermore, they are powered by two (2) separate extension cords.
·The HVAC system is held together with massive lengths of tape (not screws). When the technician attempts to re-assemble the unit with screws, he has to drill new holes because the old ones are stripped.
·He works in our attic for several hours (for free, as part of a free estimate) and comes to the conclusion that we need two (2) new systems and all new ductwork with an R- factor of 39
·He advises against the recommendation of Company 1 to seal and cap our existing returns.
Is it just me? How are regular people supposed to measure and evaluate products and services? How did things in our attic get to be such a mess when we have only sent licensed professionals up there since we’ve lived here? Each person who evaluates our system has a different opinion, but they are mostly all sure that the previous guy screwed something up. EVERYONE we deal with has good references. Our terrible experiences have made us extremely gun-shy.
Any advice on wall returns, new ductwork vs. sealing old ductwork, and the future of our Pureatech system is appreciated. After reading the previous 7 pages, I am not sure that Pureatech caused our mold problem, but rather exacerbated an existing duct problem.
This is what licensing does to a profession. NOTHING, ZERO, except take money out of your pocket to pay some fat bureaucrat with a fat pension in his future to collect your hard earned money to pay his fat butt and his fat staff who come out an harass you whenever they can.
How can anyone be so stupid as to believe licensing will help our industry when it has done absolutely nothing to increase accountability in other industries.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Lesson over.
Carry on.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
double post
AZ PowerWash Pros
New member
I have a small business license with the city of Phoenix. But I am both ways on this topic. Hard to decide. It would definitely prevent people from coming and going in the industry so fast, but then I would not be able to pick up so much cheap equipment from Craigslist. haha
It really does not matter to me. If you make me get a license I will have a license.
It really does not matter to me. If you make me get a license I will have a license.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
License to assemble, post on the web, worship and on and on.
Because of licensing we are forced to pay ridiculous fees to see a doctor who is going to prescribe the same allergy medicine you have had to take every allergy season.
Did you know Lasik surgery was under $100 in many eastern countries over 10 years ago.
Complete insanity.
There is no reason on this planet why we shouldn't be able to have the freedom to choose whether we want a "licensed professional" or uncle Joe pull our teeth or fix our plumbing.
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Because of licensing we are forced to pay ridiculous fees to see a doctor who is going to prescribe the same allergy medicine you have had to take every allergy season.
Did you know Lasik surgery was under $100 in many eastern countries over 10 years ago.
Complete insanity.
There is no reason on this planet why we shouldn't be able to have the freedom to choose whether we want a "licensed professional" or uncle Joe pull our teeth or fix our plumbing.
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Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
This is another reason for certification. Some customers look for things like that and the option should be available for them if contractors want to get together and set standards among themselves.
Some customers want cheap work and will only hire Joe Bob.
So what?
If you can't compete with Joe Bob by offering superior service your:
1) Prices are too high or
2) Methods are inefficient or
3) Marketing of superior service has failed or
4) Don't have enough capital to outlast Billy Bob till he goes under.
Either way if you need the government to help you get work you are a failure in business and need to go work at the DMV where you can be guaranteed the government will give you a check.
This is the United States of America. Right now a woman can "choose" to murder an unborn child but I can't choose to go to the store and buy antibiotics.
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Some customers want cheap work and will only hire Joe Bob.
So what?
If you can't compete with Joe Bob by offering superior service your:
1) Prices are too high or
2) Methods are inefficient or
3) Marketing of superior service has failed or
4) Don't have enough capital to outlast Billy Bob till he goes under.
Either way if you need the government to help you get work you are a failure in business and need to go work at the DMV where you can be guaranteed the government will give you a check.
This is the United States of America. Right now a woman can "choose" to murder an unborn child but I can't choose to go to the store and buy antibiotics.
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AZ PowerWash Pros
New member
I understand completely, you and Tony both always have very good points... I definitely see your point. But really what it comes down to, just like everything else is money, if you make people pay to have the right to power wash a lot of people will not be able to afford to get in the industry. Which for a person like me who is already in the industry, and can afford to pay, keeps me on top of of the industry. So I see where people get this type of thought process from. It benefits them and they want to stay on top. I am definitely NOT for this thought process but as you move up the pyramid scheme you start to see why people put things like this in place. It is not for the better of the community or the better of the people. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO MONEY. To make things easier for them.
Tom, if I honestly told you how I feel about everything you and Tony both would probably think I am so far out there I would scare you. I tend to avoid my political opinions because I am so far outside the box that most people do not understand my thought process. Regardless, my entire point is this: whether they convince people this is good or not, I will still be power washing. Make me get a license and I will be power washing. Keep it the way it is and I will be power washing. There is no man, law, or government that can stop me from doing what I want to do. I have free will, and even if they find a way to hold me down, I will use my brain power to find a way to stay on top. I can never lose because I am aware and conscious of the fact that my thoughts control my reality.
Let the system do what it does and I will be here making money because I am smart enough to know that is what I need to do to be and stay free.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Good way to look at it Ty.
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tomtucson
New member
OK, that sounds a lot more solid than the first take. Work the system we're forced to live under, get that. But don't kid yourself about the free part, we're not. Ty the world can be wrecked around you and you can't buy your way through it, the thing is it has happened over and over and over in different times and places - America is not immune to destruction. I just saw pictures of billion and trillion dollar bills and people burning money in their fireplace and sweeping money off the streets into the gutter -- crazy.
Ohio pressure wash
New member
non certified does not = cheap.
To be honest...I'm not sure which will be more entertaining, the coming Org Certification War or the next season of Breaking Bad.
tomtucson
New member
Ty cuts straight to the point! Thats funny, because when your getting sold the licensing or regulation, generaly its not 'so I can charge more regardless of how good my work is and keep competition out as long as I pay up my protection money to the thugs who can muscle people'. Its about 'better quality, higher standards, safety and the betterment of mankind'. Sure higher prices are usually talked about as a benefit but guess what, every service we ever need now comes with a higher price too, so who wins? Fact is licensing has proven to increase price and lower quality.