Coil Problems?

Scott Stone

Scott Stone

New member
I am having two problems with my heater coil. First is that everyonce in a while I get it spraying rusty water out. I have descaled it but it is continuing. What to do?
Second, and I have a feeling that they are probably related. My machine has started spitting chunks of metal out. It is grey, so it is probably steel, and probably from the coil, and it just comes in really small specs. What could be causing this?

Scott
 
Coils rust from the inside out. Without a coating of lime on the walls of the pipe you will get rusty or black water for the first few minutes you fire up in the morning. If you descale needlessly and too often you will be weakening the wall strength by acid bathing the life out of the coil.

I would suggest that if you have fairly hard water, invest the time and money to lime up your coil. Run it as hot as it will go for a couple of days without a nozzle in place. This may help.

You are right in guessing what you see is coil related as all other components are stainless or brass.

Hope this helps? Cheers.
 
You hit the nail on the head.
Descaling will cause this. Check all the fittings and make sure they all have teflon tape on them. sometimes I find a bad fitting or a pop-off valve causing the leaks.
 
ron p

do they make a ceramic coated coil
bet it would cost a lot but i bet it would last forever
 
De Ionized Water has no minerals in it. So it will attract any minerals that it can. Iron coils will not last long with DI water. They use DI water to etch metal when they want a good clean on it. It strips off a layer every time you run it thru the coils. That is why two step machines are cold water machines. Also guys who want a spot free rince never use a Hot Water machine. It eats the iron up fast. The only way to deal with DI water in coils is to have them made out of Stainless steel. Your coils in Stainless would cost about $3000.
 
I do use DI water. I also use tap water on a more frequent basis. It depends on what the customer requires and is willing to pay for.
As for the coil, it is two years old, along with the rest of the machine. I am thinking that there was some slag in the coil that was finally working itself loose. The past couple of days, about 35 hours of work, there have been no problem.

I guess that I will change what I am doing a little bit. And for what it is worth, DI water will eat Stainless, as well as, ductile Iron.

Scott
 
It is possible that you hade some welding flash break loose but I am positive your problem stems exactly from running DI water through your coil.

As the Wiz said, for DI you should use only a stainless steel headed pump and ensure the seals are up to job on a cold water machine.

As to squirt's query about a ceramic coated coil there is no known way to get a ceramic coating on the inside of a 3/8" ID pipe so while a good theoretical idea it is not possible with current technologies.

Stainless steel coils have their own problems. Because most coils use insulation around the outside to keep heat inside, then you get a real heat soak problem as well as temperature differentials. Remember that stainless steel besides being non-magnetic is an insulator as well. This means it is an inefficient method of transferring heat from the flame to the coil.

Plus it does not take a temper well. The relatively extreme heat of the burner chamber followed by the cool down to ambient the way most people do it leads to a lot of differential expansion and contraction. Also this causes the crystalline structure of the metal to change and often become brittle. This causes welds to break and seams to fail. This is why no major manufacturer offers a stainless steel coil in contact with flame. Stainless is also less flexible than iron pie so it does not withstand a water hammer or pressure spike as readily.

Ideally you should cool down any hot water pressure washer by running it with the burner off until you can comfortably hold the metal parts of the gun in your bare hand. This will reduce the problem but not eliminate it.

Hope this helps? Cheers.
 
Same thing 'squirt'.

There is no way to get the coating inside the pipe in an effective and efficient manner.

Teflon needs a rough surface and high heat to adhere to a surface but it must be sprayed.

Powder coat paint is a stopgap measure at best but impractical for the same reasons.

Again, great idea, just not practical from a cost standpoint if nothing else; it would increase coil costs from $600 to $6000, do you want to pay that?
 
ron p

i still think there is a way to do the teflon coating
for ruff just let it rust a little then force a water sand mix to clean the rust off, but it leaves a ruff surface.
this is how they get the bonding rubber to stick to the metal bands used in the mfg. of forklift tires[press-on type]
the heat is not a problem
the spraying is another story
i can see if this was just good for coils that are used for pressure washers, that the cost for only x amount would be too much.
There has to be a much bigger market for this.
coils for AC food handling corrosive chem transfer ect...
what would the heat rating need to be?
no more then what is used for cookwear?
on another note this co.
www.dascustomcoatings.com claims to have a paint that will not break untill a steel plate is bent back and forth so meny times that the plate breaks before the coating will and he makes it for boilers im going to paint my trailer with it. It can stand up to HF. YOU CAN PAINT PIPE WITH IT BEFORE BENDING IT AND IT STILL HOLDS UP. if i ever need to refurbish a wash unit or paint anything used in pressure washing im going to use it.
its not cheap
 
Go ahead and try! You will mess up your machine and will have to buy a new coil anyways. Sand will Plug it up Heat will crack anything you try. You would be better off buying a Cold water machine for DI rince and use your Hot machine for the main cleaning process. Aneasire trick would be to add a water softener to the system that has beads with rust inhibitor in the mix.
 
Hotwaterwizard said:
Go ahead and try! You will mess up your machine and will have to buy a new coil anyways. Sand will Plug it up Heat will crack anything you try. You would be better off buying a Cold water machine for DI rince and use your Hot machine for the main cleaning process. Aneasire trick would be to add a water softener to the system that has beads with rust inhibitor in the mix.
Click to expand...

What about soft water? Are there any negative consequences to using soft water? I've got a hose spicket plumbed at my house so I can fill the tank with soft water from the culligan machine and clean AC coils with it to reduce deposits.
 
hu..what yu talkin about wilis?...I mean Tony. You got Ac coils on da brain mang.. lol :)
Yea this was about inside yer machines heater coil but I guess it would apply also to rinsing off ac coils.
If anyone wants to run DI in their main washer then why not just unplug and bypass the heater when the DI tank is running. I mean you don't waste the stuff generally speaking and yer plumbed to where ya can be on or off right? My heater is plumbed with quikies so it is easy enough.
Hey Tony what about a low flow reverse osmosis rinse for them coils?. You can just turn off machine and hook a setup straight in to main hose anywhere with a ball valve or even through the downstreamer. I have a small unit that holds like 4 gal but you could get any size tank ya like. If the main shurflo used for the osmosis processing don't provide enough ummf up on the roofs due to too much head then maybe you can boost it with a secondary pump like an ironhorse or bucketster. I picture my unit filling it's tank or a couple of them and then my bucketster with dual pumps putting it to a few window or cars someday... i mean it's not DI but should help keep things clean longer.
 
Soft water is an excellent alternative to DI water not aggressive like DI water but will rinse well and allow your cleaners to work better.

A baisic rating of water quality is as follows:

DI water- Best quality spot free and very aggressive can damge the surface of materials over time or with prolonged contact
Reverse Osmosis water- Better quality almost always spot free not as surface aggressive
Soft water- Good quality spot free in most cases will help with chemical performance and rinsing
Regular water- Varies dramatically based on areas and how it is treated, the lower the hardness the better it will perform. Can be aggressive to all areas of your pressure washer based on mineral content which can be reduced by the use of some type of filtration or treatment.
 
MMI Enterprises said:
hu..what yu talkin about wilis?...I mean Tony. You got Ac coils on da brain mang.. lol :)
Yea this was about inside yer machines heater coil but I guess it would apply also to rinsing off ac coils.
If anyone wants to run DI in their main washer then why not just unplug and bypass the heater when the DI tank is running. I mean you don't waste the stuff generally speaking and yer plumbed to where ya can be on or off right? My heater is plumbed with quikies so it is easy enough.
Hey Tony what about a low flow reverse osmosis rinse for them coils?. You can just turn off machine and hook a setup straight in to main hose anywhere with a ball valve or even through the downstreamer. I have a small unit that holds like 4 gal but you could get any size tank ya like. If the main shurflo used for the osmosis processing don't provide enough ummf up on the roofs due to too much head then maybe you can boost it with a secondary pump like an ironhorse or bucketster. I picture my unit filling it's tank or a couple of them and then my bucketster with dual pumps putting it to a few window or cars someday... i mean it's not DI but should help keep things clean longer.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the coils in the my PW. I had the conversation with Scott before about the negative effects of DI water on your PW coil, but I've been using soft water (salt machine) for two years now and I was just wondering if it is damaging my PW coil.
 
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