Clean Water Restoration Act...

The Feds now want to control all bodies of water... introduced on April 2nd of this year - check out the progress here...

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s787/show

Blog post on this ridiculous bill...

http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/12/feds-attempting-to-annex-all-water-in-the-u-s/

The International Council of Shopping Centers is aware of the impact that this will make on commercial building activity and I imagine will be lobbying the trashing of this...

"SENATE COMMITTEE VOTES ON CLEAN WATER ACT
The Senate Environment and Public Works (EPW) Committee voted on the Clean Water Restoration Act (S. 787) on June 18. This legislation was opposed by ICSC because, as originally drafted, it would require property owners to obtain a federal permit for drainage ditches, stormwater retention ponds and nearly any activity that could impact any body of water. In addition, the proposed changes to the language of the original Clean Water Act would erase three decades of court cases that have established the proper scope of federal jurisdiction - thus guaranteeing a new round of lawsuits creating confusion and increasing delays for development and renovation projects across the country.

Some of the questionable language was removed from the legislation during the EPW hearing, in part because of ICSC member opposition. Specifically, the language that indicated federal permits might be required for "all activities affecting waters of the United States" was removed. However, the amended version of S. 787 would still delete the word "navigable" from the original language of the Clean Water Act and thereby unleash a flood of lawsuits and create expensive delays in the issuance of federal permits.

ICSC has worked with the Corps of Engineers, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and Congress to encourage the adoption of clear, concise rules for permitting activities. S. 787, unfortunately, fails to do this and may, in fact, make the current situation worse. S. 787 is not yet scheduled for a vote by the full Senate. Similar concerns over the bill's impact have prevented the House from taking up identical legislation but it is anticipated in the coming months."

Before long you will see filters on the storm drains and retention ponds around Wal-Mart parking lots!!!

Richard Fleming said:

Before long you will see filters on the storm drains and retention ponds around Wal-Mart parking lots!!!

Click to expand...

... after they've waited years to get the permits and gone through all the red tape to do so!!

I'm all for keeping US waters clean, but they should not have jurisdiction over private property that does not affect US waters.

:smash: ... meddling politicians!

Dirty water is my business, working for a wastewater treatment facility but the biggest problem is storm water runoff from large shopping centers going into small creeks. Not only does it polute it also causes the small stream to flood during heavy rains, which results in erosion, and damage to other drains, pippin, and surrounding properties.
I dont know the answers to all this but I know that it will not stop, first they do whatever it is they are going to do and then later on it will be something else

"self-perpetuating mistakes"

Frustrating, frustrating, frustrating...

OH the "self-perpetuating mistakes" !!

they all have "in-box out-box syndrome"..
Everyone has a pre-concieved notion of what they want to "do" today,
and that "special project".. is just too much trouble..
They want to get home on time, or even early.
Cooperation means communication has to be "up",
Coordination means research has to get done,
management means systematically "hearding cats".

Sure the meek shall inherit the Earth,
but the rest of us will be exploring new planets,
while they wonder why we left 'em behind. Eh?

In the mean time, Get enviro-friendly because it is profitable,
and faster work-speed (on flat surfaces).

Let the manufacturers deal with lobbying,
so it won't waste your time, and focus.
We know what to do, and our platform is being built.
Stay focussed on those cleaning contracts, and have faith..
First in your ability to stay focussed,
next in capitolism.. it's a machine that won't stop running.

Great Post Steven, great info.

I like Seeing PWI back to a great resource.

It started like this:

Navigable Waters of the United States:Those waters of the United States that are subject to the ebb and flow of the tide shoreward to the mean high water mark and/or are presently used, or have been used in the past, or may be susceptible to use in the future to transport interstate or foreign commerce.
Please contact us if you have questions regarding navigable waterways within the Philadelphia District.

Was revised in 2008 to further indluce this:

The term "navigable waters" of the United States means "navigable waters" as defined in section 502(7) of the FWPCA, and includes: (1) all navigable waters of the United States, as defined in judicial decisions prior to the passage of the 1972 Amendments of the Federal Water Pollution Control Act, (FWPCA) (Pub. L. 92-500) also known as the Clean Water Act (CWA), and tributaries of such waters as; (2) interstate waters; (3) intrastate lakes, rivers, and streams which are utilized by interstate travelers for recreational or other purposes; and (4) intrastate lakes, rivers, and streams from which fish or shellfish are taken and sold in interstate commerce.

The first draft was barely constitutional since the federal branch of government has the institution and protection of interstate commerce as one of it's rights and duties. The second draft oversteps the constitutional bounds by including waters that have nothing to do with interstate commerce and its flow.

Here is some more information on interstate commerce and the responsibilities of the federal government along with the arguments of limitation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

The bottom line is this. What most of us are doing has absolutely zero effect on any waters of the US.

Also, what we are doing has zero effect on water quality.

We are simply using heat or agitation to pull up the minute amounts of contaminants that weren't already washed away by rain.

Tough rules are already in place regarding the washing away of oil and grease from fleets.

I would argue thousands times more oil and grease gets washed down the drain from the roads every single time it rains than could be produced by thousands of fleet washers on any given day.

This is just common sense.

Unfortunately common sense does not produce federal tax money and does not allow for the purchase of unnecessary permits and inspections all over the country to generate more government income and control.

The only way this country can return to common sense is to stand up and be heard.

This is why I was so disappointed when I found out that the up and coming industry "org" was going in the battle as if we were half beaten already by going in with compromise on the table right off the bat.

Other lobbyists don't go in already defeated, they fight tooth and nail from the complete opposite stance and even if they loose some they have not lost all. The "org" is going in with compromise on their mind from the beginning and will eventually lose all because they underestimate the stupidity and/or genius of who they are up against. Trying to be politically correct will be the death of this industry.

Of course they all think I'm crazy. I don't mind that. I just hope there are enough of us "crazy" people to get the attention of other industries who have industry orgs with the teeth and the desire to stomp this into the ground like it should be instead of going in with a flower in their hair and begging for mercy.

Common sense. We're not too far away. We just need to give the current administration enough rope.....but not too much.

Ron, I apologize for ruining your "great resource".....:groucho:

Sirocco Jerry said:

Let the manufacturers deal with lobbying,
so it won't waste your time, and focus.

Click to expand...

I don't mean to be a jerk, but I feel that this is part of the problem. The manufacturers are telling the end user that they "need to buy my equipment to comply with the regulations" instead of the end user having a say in the matter because everyone is so splintered so that they have no say in the matter. This is the very thing that the "Organizations" should be fighting for but are not.

Some of us have spent an ENORMOUS amount of time guiding the municipalities to "Reasonable" BMP's..
Whist the lawmakers use big impressive phrases like "storm conveyance system"
and "hazardous waste" shaping the affect laws have on the general "liability problem",
Some of us have sat in front of numerous "educational" seminars, put on by the municipalities,
just to cause those enforcement officers to "wear the weight" of their claims..
If they make it difficult to manage wash water, they are the first to feel the brunt..
Their own crews are supposed to be environmentally compliant,
or they cannot bring a single citation forth "legally".. they have the liability problem FIRST.
If we hadn't stepped in, spent the time, and money to travel the states,
and speak-out FOR REASONABLE BMP's we wouldn't be able to lay a single VacuBerm or sand bag in a gutter,
..because it is the "storm conveyance system".
You'd be trapping the water at the sidewalk's edge BEFORE it could run down the face of the curb !
..That would require 3 times the cost in vacuum, and finesse.
It's a GOOD thing the carpet cleaning industry has Muni's convinced that
they should be able to put baby-puke and dog-crap water on their customers' lawn,
or we'd have one hell of a battle to let (potential) heavy-metals-polluted water on the same vegitation. Eh?
I started going to meetings in 1992, and have traveled as far as half way across the US
to squelch the un-educated lawmakers' influence on what you will have to use to stay in business.
When I designed the VacuBerm, I designed it to work with the cheap Shop-Vac you already own.
..Don't act like there's a conspiracy to load you trailer with obnoxious setbacks.
What kind of manufacturer would destroy all his customers methodically ?
The guy that took your contract with a Home-Depot pressure washer,
and lied about having reclaim ! .. ..HE's your problem.
Get your nose turned towards the music.. Your next contract will be at it's MOST profitable,
where your suppliers HELP you grow profitably with reliability, and WORK-SPEED.
..and don't assume anything but your need to learn.
Robert Hinderlighter has spent thousands of dollars and weeks away from "the sales dept."
influencing BMP's in Texas. He's done a fantastic job, to YOUR benefit.
Others have come, all the way to California, just to gather intel on the coming requirements.
I've met with the American Public Works' director of education, and the
Army Corps of Engineers on these issues with no funding from a single Association.
If you have enough attitude to "point a finger", point it at your opportunity to "ride the wave"
of profitability, ..and be a real good listener.
You want a steady flow of work ??
You need suppliers to be creative, resourcefull, and outgoing.
Granted, this industry has done a LOT of damage to itself with crappy product..
horrible customer service, and insult on serviceability, but you STILL need support
of the suppliers that care about your future, especially on these liability issues,
and best possible workspeed, or you will all be wiped out by "technicallity".
I don't have time for blogging. I don't have time for leaning over every service project,
and customer service call that comes to me, but I do it anyway,
to the benefit of my customers.. as long as you grow stronger from my help,
and/or our product is improved to better benefit the user, we all win.
If you learn to sort out who's there to actually help you, you can grow too..
faster than the guy that wants cheap, with "free" installation.
Teachers react very quickly, and negatively to disrespect.
The next time a tech helps you with troubleshooting..
give him a buck or two for every minute of productive help.. he needs an income too.
..Remember the demo where the guy just wanted that spot cleaned for free ??
.."something for nothing" is the end of a relationship, every time.

I have recommended time after time that our dealers and contract cleaner customers
to go to the municipalities, to show them what wash-water-control "looks like"..
If they like your demo, they can hand you to their department heads required to
contract enviro-friendly services, or purchase the right equipment,
allowing the "reasonable" enforcement of these laws.. like a level playing field.
They have to BE the example, whether they admit it or not.
Lots of good is coming from all this..
Listen, learn, and get busy, or get left WAY- behind.

And by the way, don't leave home without your cameras..
With a couple pictures of the Parks Dept. rinsing restrooms down the boatramp,
or the grafitti guy leaving his mess in the gutter, or the leaf-blower-guy sending leaves
into the street from the front steps of the library..
a judge will tear-up any citation you clip 'em to..
Everyone complies.. especially the Municipalities.
I have pictures of the San Diego Port district crews pushing wash water right into the bay,
just a few months ago, and they HAD reclaim equipment ON the trailer !
And the director of that department just won an award for his "enviro-friendly efforts" ..
He won't get away with citing any of my customers.

Jerry, having spoken with you on a limited basis in Ft. Worth I have to say I am impressed with your thought process.

When I first sat next to you at dinner, I thought "I'd better not bring up the CWA with this guy or I'll be in for a fight all night". But I was wrong about you. The more I spoke with you, the more I realized you truly love this industry and would do anything to make things easier and even less costly for the contractors.

I also like your emphasis on speed with reclaim. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. (if you can make a surface cleaner that doesn't take a horse or mule to pull it with the vacuum on ) I'm not required by the government to have a 61ft lift to get on roofs, but I spent the 40k or so on it because it gives me a great speed advantage over my competition.

These are not situations flatwork guys run into every day:

...........rinsing restrooms down the boatramp,
........grafitti guy leaving his mess in the gutter
..........pushing wash water right into the bay,

90% of the flatwork guys on this board are doing is repetitive plaza washing and maybe some gas stations. The only difference between plaza and gas stations is oil, gas and grease. There are filters out there now that can filter those out and let the remaining wash water run right into the storm drain. That's a lot more than the city does to protect the storm drain from rain runoff that washes that same oil, gas and grease right down the drain.

Are we promoting this? Or are we working under the assumption that we have already lost the fight?

Why haven't we turned it around on them and suggested that it is the responsibility of the city government to filter the storm drains?

Why haven't we done tests the prove that 1000's of times more contaminants go down the drain every time it rains to show them how ludicrous it is to require such a small industry to try to tackle their PROBLEM.

If they care so much about it why can't they filter each drain then we can wash what needs to be washed without having to even think about it?

How much money could manufacturers make selling filters to city governments? I'd guess a lot more than selling to pressure washing contractors.

Brother Tony,
the examples I made were simply easy ways to catch the munis behaving badly on film.
I know my customers every need AND desire, and jobsite.. That's how I've come up with such a refined product line.

About the enviro-issue you're right on..
this is an example of where we're at.
The storm drain filtration is right there.. the filters are available, and all, BUT..
The Munis are "so concerned" of "recommending" or in some way endorsing any one product,
they have distanced themselves from being helpful in any way !
I've had length talks with a hundred of these guys, and gals.. they actually DO have brains,
they are just stuck in a "day-job", with maybe a little tree-hugger mentality, but they ALL fear lay-offs, cutbacks, etc.
and the most common problem is the "in-box-out-box syndrome" I keep talking about..
they just can't seem to spend time on a special project, let alone a difficult one.
Every city, in every state has these same self-perpetuating mistakes.
At the EPA state-level they are pushed the direction of the politicians' whims.
At the county level, they are torn between all the above, they just break-down at the management skills..
getting the Muni guys off their butts on the "special projects"
..that's the part where they are supposed to consider what the business community has to offer.
It's all a big self-perpetuating mistake, that keeps technology from growing the finesse and opportunity of all concerned..
We, as an industry have an opportunity to make a huge difference, and profit from it..
the most important principal in big business growth is called the Pareto Principal..
we can provide 80% of the "desired effect" with 20% of the "potential cost"..
If you could spend 10 days cleaning a parking lot with every tool available, and get the most perfect clean possible,
don't bother to turn-in that bid.. dude won't pay that much.. he only wants to pay 50% of that.
But, if you spend 20% of the effort (2 days), you get it 80% clean, he pays you the "perceived value" of 50%
..and the customer doesn't have to know you got it done so quickly you cleared the $150. per hour per man you were aiming for.
Sprinkle a little extra customer service, or ball-game tickets in there for the longer-term contract, and everybody's happy. Eh ?
If the EPA and munis could open the door to communication, with a mindset of cooperation,
within a week, we the "enviro-cleaning" industry, could provide 80% of the effect at 50% of the cost (..since they need professionals to provide it,)
and then, they could enforce the laws on a "level playing field", and we all live healthier, happier, profitable lives.
Can I get an amen ?


By the way, I've gotten in the habit of referring to my industry friends as "brothers"
for this reason.. this industry feels like a war-game.. it's good, and sometimes fun to see how good we can get at it,
but it IS a war of sorts, and we are 'brothers in arms".. as we need to work together to influence the outcome of these issues.
Every time you do a demonstration of enviro-friendly effect, and even this blog will be beneficial, (very soon,)
in influencing the actions of the munis and the EPA.. believe it or not.
And don't go negative on me here, we will need all the positive energy we can muster on "game-Day" ..it will come sooner than later.
I have several tricks up my sleeves, and common sense will prevail.
I keep directing you guys into "focusing forward" on what YOU can do for profitability..
I'm trying to dress you for success on game-day.. if you don't look the part, when I draw all that attention on this industry,
you will get picked-off like flies if you're polluting, or you will loose out on all the contracts that will surface from it.
I believe in my mission, you can profit from it, game-day WILL happen,
and all you need to know, brothers, is working smart around influential people
has always been golden.
Even if you're not religious, have faith !
..and always be respectful of your brothers in arms.

The first thing both of you have to get is Talk about the jurisdiction. If the water doesnt leave the property and enter a storm drain then none of this applys.

Its pretty simple you guys can be both correct until you establish this.