http://www.thecleanernetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=245
this was a nice flyer for homes found on www.cleanernetwork.com
this was a nice flyer for homes found on www.cleanernetwork.com
different Forms & brochures found:::
- Thread starter Ron Musgraves
- Start date
http://www.thecleanernetwork.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=245
this post card is worth looking at..
this post card is worth looking at..
Clean County PW
Active member
Thats a nice Brochure and website that person has. The only thing I don't like is that he is using someone elses before and after pictures. I do give him credit for being honest about that.
Hopefully for his sake he can get roofs as clean as those pictures show.
Hopefully for his sake he can get roofs as clean as those pictures show.
pretty simple and nice
i think the intentions are good for the roof guard individual but the prices are too low in my opinion,whats worse is he is located close to me greenville nc or sc.
i wouldnt wash a 2500 sq. ft. roof for 180.. it would cost me 10 grand if i fell off.
and the house wash prices are what i consider low but what do i know i always lose the yellow page customers to a lowballer anyway,what i cant figure out is how can a legitimate company afford to operate and pay premium for advertisement and work for low prices,i guess its "you get what you pay for"
i wouldnt wash a 2500 sq. ft. roof for 180.. it would cost me 10 grand if i fell off.
and the house wash prices are what i consider low but what do i know i always lose the yellow page customers to a lowballer anyway,what i cant figure out is how can a legitimate company afford to operate and pay premium for advertisement and work for low prices,i guess its "you get what you pay for"
Check out these two "Do-It-All" web sites. Looks like pricing is directly off Delco's site (one even quotes that their prices are in line with Delco's, which represent national averages.)
http://www.playwrightscentersf.org/stuff/VC/price/
http://www.fog.nf.net/franklyn/pricing.html#hr
I noticed their new construction brick cleaning start at $0.10 per sq ft or $14/1000 or $196 for 2000 sq ft of brick surface.
Is that a garden hose job, no materials?
Could it be lack of real experience?
Could they lose money on a job like that?
Comments????
Regards,
http://www.playwrightscentersf.org/stuff/VC/price/
http://www.fog.nf.net/franklyn/pricing.html#hr
I noticed their new construction brick cleaning start at $0.10 per sq ft or $14/1000 or $196 for 2000 sq ft of brick surface.
Is that a garden hose job, no materials?
Could it be lack of real experience?
Could they lose money on a job like that?
Comments????
Regards,
thats funny 10cent a square to clean houses and 1 dollar a square to clean concrete.
Paul,i cant seem to get over .14 square foot for commercial masonry cleaning around here ,and sometimes have to do residential masonry cleaning cheaper than that. only if the building is very well laid can i make a profit at .14,after that it is downhill very fast,and to wait 45 days for the money and have 10 percent held as a retainer i vowed to never do any more brick cleaning.
not to mention running into a lot of unscrupulous con artists wanting to not pay you for your work,or look for some reason to keep some of your money on every job. (LAT PURSER) (DAN MOSER) (SCOTT UNDERWOOD)
i have $15000 in the latest advanced technological equipment,which helps me clean very efficiently but i still cant make what i seem would be fair money from this area.
ps. i am losing 2500 SQ. FT. house wash jobs to some home depot joe who is advertising in the same book as me for $150
should i be asking more money for the brick cleaning?
any difference between commercial and residential pricing?
thank you
Paul,i cant seem to get over .14 square foot for commercial masonry cleaning around here ,and sometimes have to do residential masonry cleaning cheaper than that. only if the building is very well laid can i make a profit at .14,after that it is downhill very fast,and to wait 45 days for the money and have 10 percent held as a retainer i vowed to never do any more brick cleaning.
not to mention running into a lot of unscrupulous con artists wanting to not pay you for your work,or look for some reason to keep some of your money on every job. (LAT PURSER) (DAN MOSER) (SCOTT UNDERWOOD)
i have $15000 in the latest advanced technological equipment,which helps me clean very efficiently but i still cant make what i seem would be fair money from this area.
ps. i am losing 2500 SQ. FT. house wash jobs to some home depot joe who is advertising in the same book as me for $150
should i be asking more money for the brick cleaning?
any difference between commercial and residential pricing?
thank you
It's hard to get a concrete cleaning, brightening and seal job for $0.50 per sq ft around here ($0.40 per sq ft seems to be the going rate - materials included).
On new construction brick cleaning the prices do vary from builder to builder and even with the same builder at times. Some will try to hold you up, if you let them. You get all levels of cleaning results from the P/W contractors. A number of these guys use a garden hose only and work the heavy spots and work only to a 10 foot level (that's the $0.10 job). They are often called back 2-3 times to get it right. They are also the ones that scream and holler that the masons are sloppy and they have to charge more to bring their pressure washer.
In most cases the builder/super is uneducated to what the process should be. I get the builder/super to come out and have him try to remove mortar tags and smears with garden hose and a brush. Then we show him what we do. It's amazing how many times I've heard "That's the best cleaning job I've ever seen."
I tell them I can give them the $0.10 job, just send me a check the day after it rains the first time. Or we can come out and help them sell these homes.
$30/1000 or $0.21 is the minimum we do new construction brick cleaning for and it goes up from there to about $55 per thousand or $0.38 per sq ft. 2000 sq ft (brick area) or 14K bricks will take about 5 gallons of D600 at $34 or Vana Trol at $47 plus about $5 in P/W gasoline. A decent cleaning will take 5-7 hours (1 person) depending on the severity of the tags and smears.
I'm not sure I understand what good the 10% (held back) does for the builder. For example a 16K house at $0.14 per square is $320 (or 10% = $32). $32 will not leverage anything. Don't let them bully you around.
Make sure you always have a contract and require a satisfactory completed job sign off.
Payment - net 30, ....penalty for payment after 30 days.
Get the sign off the same day, or no more than a couple of days after then invoice within a day.
Have not had to use a "mechanics lean" against a contract as most of my builders pay within 2-3 weeks, but that's an option for non-payment.
Commercial will pay more then residential and they are normally better laid out for the most efficient cleaning methods, however, they present their own problems at times.
The bottom line is that if you can't make any money at it, you have to move on to something else.
Before you do that, you need to remember that there is more to getting a job than pricing - "You have to sell the quality of your service."
Best Wishes!
Regards,
On new construction brick cleaning the prices do vary from builder to builder and even with the same builder at times. Some will try to hold you up, if you let them. You get all levels of cleaning results from the P/W contractors. A number of these guys use a garden hose only and work the heavy spots and work only to a 10 foot level (that's the $0.10 job). They are often called back 2-3 times to get it right. They are also the ones that scream and holler that the masons are sloppy and they have to charge more to bring their pressure washer.
In most cases the builder/super is uneducated to what the process should be. I get the builder/super to come out and have him try to remove mortar tags and smears with garden hose and a brush. Then we show him what we do. It's amazing how many times I've heard "That's the best cleaning job I've ever seen."
I tell them I can give them the $0.10 job, just send me a check the day after it rains the first time. Or we can come out and help them sell these homes.
$30/1000 or $0.21 is the minimum we do new construction brick cleaning for and it goes up from there to about $55 per thousand or $0.38 per sq ft. 2000 sq ft (brick area) or 14K bricks will take about 5 gallons of D600 at $34 or Vana Trol at $47 plus about $5 in P/W gasoline. A decent cleaning will take 5-7 hours (1 person) depending on the severity of the tags and smears.
I'm not sure I understand what good the 10% (held back) does for the builder. For example a 16K house at $0.14 per square is $320 (or 10% = $32). $32 will not leverage anything. Don't let them bully you around.
Make sure you always have a contract and require a satisfactory completed job sign off.
Payment - net 30, ....penalty for payment after 30 days.
Get the sign off the same day, or no more than a couple of days after then invoice within a day.
Have not had to use a "mechanics lean" against a contract as most of my builders pay within 2-3 weeks, but that's an option for non-payment.
Commercial will pay more then residential and they are normally better laid out for the most efficient cleaning methods, however, they present their own problems at times.
The bottom line is that if you can't make any money at it, you have to move on to something else.
Before you do that, you need to remember that there is more to getting a job than pricing - "You have to sell the quality of your service."
Best Wishes!
Regards,
Michael Cappa
Member
Paul, that 40 cents per sqft, is that on residential or commercial. (cleaning, brightening and sealing) I gave an estimate for the same services a while ago at 25 cents per sqft and got balked at. My price came to somewhere around 550 if I remember correctly. Wasn't that huge of a driveway. The customer told me he got an est. for 200 from someone else. I told him to call me next year when he wanted it done right. I thought I may have been charging too much, yet I have gotten every other concrete job I have bid to clean,brighten and seal for 25 cents per sqft. Have I been charging too little, if so, my prices are raised immedialtly. Also, I thought I was making a good profit off these jobs. I have no problem though making more of a profit.
Michael Cappa
Member
also...
What have you noticed the going rate for concrete cleaning only?
with no sealant.
I thought it was around 12 cents a sqft, have I been undercharging yet again? Is this why I have been pretty much getting all the jobs?
What have you noticed the going rate for concrete cleaning only?
with no sealant.
I thought it was around 12 cents a sqft, have I been undercharging yet again? Is this why I have been pretty much getting all the jobs?
Mike Hughes
Former Board Administrator
If you get every job, its time to raise your price.
Mike C.,
Ditto on "If you get every job, its time to raise your price."
Same would apply in the opposite direction.
All increases and decreases should be in smaller increments until you find a good ratio. To me 50-70% is a good number.
I suppose it's all in the market area and the sales job since someone posted a few weeks ago about their going rate being $1+ per sq ft (west coast offense).
I once targeted a medium size sub-division (about 250 homes) with home prices between $125K to $175K where I would say 80% of the homes needed washing and 90% of the concrete needed cleaning, along with a fair number of decks needing refinishing. I sent 2 sets of flyers to every home within 3 weeks of each other with only 1 request for an estimate for deck work.
The same flyer worked very well in other areas.
I can't see cleaning, brightening and sealing 2200 sq ft of concrete for $200.
Let me ask these questions about the 2200 sq ft.:
- How long to clean?
- How long to brighten?
- What is the material cost of cleaner and brightener?
$0.10 to $0.16 does not sound unreasonable for residential concrete cleaning. $0.12 would be $264 - about 4 hours to:
set up, spot clean, clean, brighten, rinse and pack up. Some will take longer, others not but that should not be the driver for the cost. The driver is normally your average good quality competitor and what your customers are willing to pay.
Sealing:
- If I use a 1 coat sealer, it covers 150 sq ft per gallon (or 15 gallons) at $15 per gallon = $225 (my cost).
- If I use a 2 coat sealer, it covers 175 sq ft per gallon on 1st coat and 300 sq ft on 2nd coat (20 gallons total at about $12/gallon) thats $240 in materials or about $0.11 per sq ft.
- $240 for materials plus 20% mark-up = $290 plus 4 hours to apply 2 coats of sealer at $60 per hr = $240 or $530 total ($0.24 per sq ft).
Do you seal the same day you clean?
I let the concrete dry for 24 hrs. In cooler weather it may take longer. It then take 2 trips.
Again, some will take longer, others not but that should not be the driver for the cost. The driver is normally your average good quality competitor and what your customers are willing to pay.
If you're not competitive, you have to find the reason for it (don't have the proper equipment, too slow, material costs are too high, marketing, etc., etc..)
I'm interested in hearing other perspectives.
Regards,
Ditto on "If you get every job, its time to raise your price."
Same would apply in the opposite direction.
All increases and decreases should be in smaller increments until you find a good ratio. To me 50-70% is a good number.
I suppose it's all in the market area and the sales job since someone posted a few weeks ago about their going rate being $1+ per sq ft (west coast offense).
I once targeted a medium size sub-division (about 250 homes) with home prices between $125K to $175K where I would say 80% of the homes needed washing and 90% of the concrete needed cleaning, along with a fair number of decks needing refinishing. I sent 2 sets of flyers to every home within 3 weeks of each other with only 1 request for an estimate for deck work.
The same flyer worked very well in other areas.
I can't see cleaning, brightening and sealing 2200 sq ft of concrete for $200.
Let me ask these questions about the 2200 sq ft.:
- How long to clean?
- How long to brighten?
- What is the material cost of cleaner and brightener?
$0.10 to $0.16 does not sound unreasonable for residential concrete cleaning. $0.12 would be $264 - about 4 hours to:
set up, spot clean, clean, brighten, rinse and pack up. Some will take longer, others not but that should not be the driver for the cost. The driver is normally your average good quality competitor and what your customers are willing to pay.
Sealing:
- If I use a 1 coat sealer, it covers 150 sq ft per gallon (or 15 gallons) at $15 per gallon = $225 (my cost).
- If I use a 2 coat sealer, it covers 175 sq ft per gallon on 1st coat and 300 sq ft on 2nd coat (20 gallons total at about $12/gallon) thats $240 in materials or about $0.11 per sq ft.
- $240 for materials plus 20% mark-up = $290 plus 4 hours to apply 2 coats of sealer at $60 per hr = $240 or $530 total ($0.24 per sq ft).
Do you seal the same day you clean?
I let the concrete dry for 24 hrs. In cooler weather it may take longer. It then take 2 trips.
Again, some will take longer, others not but that should not be the driver for the cost. The driver is normally your average good quality competitor and what your customers are willing to pay.
If you're not competitive, you have to find the reason for it (don't have the proper equipment, too slow, material costs are too high, marketing, etc., etc..)
I'm interested in hearing other perspectives.
Regards,
I get 20 per thousand for residential and I am the high priced guy in this metropolitan area! 25 - 50% more for commercial. I don't know how guys charging 1/3 less are making anything; except (as Paul alluded) they are doing a crummy job.
I am hoping to close a deal on purchasing another business here. They clean brick, in addition to providing other services. All hell will break loose when I increase prices to their current customers by 25%.
I am hoping to close a deal on purchasing another business here. They clean brick, in addition to providing other services. All hell will break loose when I increase prices to their current customers by 25%.
Paul,the .14 price is the price i get for 30 40 thousand square foot commercial buildings,i have tried to raise prices a penny or two and have lost the jobs as a result,
i will also say if i try to charge more than 6 cent a square foot for cleaning driveways i lose the job,i must be living in the lowballing capital of the world,the only reason i stillmake decent money at those prices is all the expensive equipment i have surface cleaners and 6gpm machine with 600 foot of hose,and formulate my own chemicals from raw materials.
maybe i should move to another location.
i wish i could get that kind of money
i will also say if i try to charge more than 6 cent a square foot for cleaning driveways i lose the job,i must be living in the lowballing capital of the world,the only reason i stillmake decent money at those prices is all the expensive equipment i have surface cleaners and 6gpm machine with 600 foot of hose,and formulate my own chemicals from raw materials.
maybe i should move to another location.
i wish i could get that kind of money
Michael Cappa
Member
Paul,
I would say I do sometimes clean and seal the same day. I try to clean early in the morning then come back later in the day to seal (when it is warm with the sun shining) If it is cooler out, it will be done in two days. I don't always use a concrete cleaner, alot of the driveways are in newer const. areas. I will often use a degreaser to remove tire marks though. Sometimes bleach to remove leaf stains, then oxalic acid to brighten. I am honestly trying out different sealers to figure which will do the best job at the best cost. Any suggestions on sealant? I don't think I answered all your questions, but not sure they were all directed at me. I have to look up some prices for you and I will let you know what I have been paying. I recently purchased a surface cleaner so the jobs will be going much faster now.
I would say I do sometimes clean and seal the same day. I try to clean early in the morning then come back later in the day to seal (when it is warm with the sun shining) If it is cooler out, it will be done in two days. I don't always use a concrete cleaner, alot of the driveways are in newer const. areas. I will often use a degreaser to remove tire marks though. Sometimes bleach to remove leaf stains, then oxalic acid to brighten. I am honestly trying out different sealers to figure which will do the best job at the best cost. Any suggestions on sealant? I don't think I answered all your questions, but not sure they were all directed at me. I have to look up some prices for you and I will let you know what I have been paying. I recently purchased a surface cleaner so the jobs will be going much faster now.
Tim,
It does sound like your area is very competitive.
On the average, how many man hours does it take you to clean 30K sq ft brick? 80, 100, 120
On large commercial jobs the prices are more firm and even 1/4 cent increments will be noticable on the bids. Especially when it's the same group of contractors doing the bidding all the time.
It helps to know who you are bidding against. Some will tell you while others will not. Have to keep your ears and eyes open and be very probative in a competitive business to get an edge.
I'm sure we would get a lot more concrete cleaning jobs at $0.06 per sq ft. then we are presently, but I try to avoid clean only jobs on residential. A clean only job (in my opinion) presents long term and referral problems. I've seen driveways very dirty in 2-3 months after cleaning only (especially in the fall). Hard to get repeat or referrals that way.
Regards,
Paul B.
It does sound like your area is very competitive.
On the average, how many man hours does it take you to clean 30K sq ft brick? 80, 100, 120
On large commercial jobs the prices are more firm and even 1/4 cent increments will be noticable on the bids. Especially when it's the same group of contractors doing the bidding all the time.
It helps to know who you are bidding against. Some will tell you while others will not. Have to keep your ears and eyes open and be very probative in a competitive business to get an edge.
I'm sure we would get a lot more concrete cleaning jobs at $0.06 per sq ft. then we are presently, but I try to avoid clean only jobs on residential. A clean only job (in my opinion) presents long term and referral problems. I've seen driveways very dirty in 2-3 months after cleaning only (especially in the fall). Hard to get repeat or referrals that way.
Regards,
Paul B.
Cutting operating costs are sometimes the only option.
A good balance between labor cost, material cost, speed and methods sometimes will get you the right answers. But it is the hardest balance and the most time consuming effort.
I review our process on a regular basis. I check for lower cost materials. Combining purchases and trips. At times I have just observed for hours and shot videos on job site for logistics and time studies, looking for things that may help us. Employees can provide good input on what can speed up or cut costs on jobs.
We always have a plan before the job starts and at the end we know if it was a good plan or can the plan be improved for the next job.
It's OK not to share time information, but you should always track the effort hours and keep notes on each job. You should also get into the habit to review and critique each job after it's completed.
It doesn't have to be a large task and it can be over a beer or coffee and donuts. There are always things to learn and some things that are not so obvious may surface.
There are hundreds (even thousands) of aspects to each type of business.
Best Wishes!
Regards,
A good balance between labor cost, material cost, speed and methods sometimes will get you the right answers. But it is the hardest balance and the most time consuming effort.
I review our process on a regular basis. I check for lower cost materials. Combining purchases and trips. At times I have just observed for hours and shot videos on job site for logistics and time studies, looking for things that may help us. Employees can provide good input on what can speed up or cut costs on jobs.
We always have a plan before the job starts and at the end we know if it was a good plan or can the plan be improved for the next job.
It's OK not to share time information, but you should always track the effort hours and keep notes on each job. You should also get into the habit to review and critique each job after it's completed.
It doesn't have to be a large task and it can be over a beer or coffee and donuts. There are always things to learn and some things that are not so obvious may surface.
There are hundreds (even thousands) of aspects to each type of business.
Best Wishes!
Regards,