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  1. #1
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    Where's Robert Hinderliter when you need him?

    Being that Robert came to Nevada and offered to hire out his services to help them write their BMPs to correct them so they are following federal law (according to him) - Where is he now in New York when they need him?

    Apparently all the beaches are shut down because of a sewage leak. Here's the story:


    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/07/...o-sewage-leak/

    Here is what they are doing:

    The Department of Environmental Protection said it has taken additional steps to disinfect the water being discharged from the plant using bleach and will continue to sample the water.

    The county said that the pollution should dissipate and that they will not be using the pipeline until it is fully repaired, CBS 2′s Lou Young reported.

    DISSIPATE?????? WHAT IS THAT?????? HAVEN'T THEY EVER HEARD OF CRADLE TO GRAVE???????? Where is Jim Gamble to educate these people and let them know that they are deep in sh#t and there is nothing they can legally do about it without killing all the wildlife in the sewer!!!! (Remember, "One drop of caustic") lol.

    But alas, the HORROR!!!! THE OUTRAGE!!!! They will be using BLEACH to disinfect the HUDSON RIVER and surrounding waters till the leak can be stopped!!!!! WHAT ABOUT ALL THOSE BASS THAT ARE GOING TO DIE DEPRIVING AC OF HIS PRIZE ON HIS NEXT VISIT TO NEW YORK??????????? Does this mean that waters are cleaner to swim in in Florida and North Carolina where they regularly wash roofs??????????

    WHO IS GOING TO SAVE THE MERMAIDS??????

    I submit that Robert Hinderliter is the man for the job. I think the Pwna should send him straight to New York to straighten them out the same way they sent him to Las Vegas to fix what wasn't broken.

    Everybody knows that SH#T is preferable to getting small amounts of bleach, caustic or anything else that might serve to clean it up. Just like greasy drivethru's, oily parking lots and nasty dumpsters are preferable to having to use a cup of detergent to clean and disinfect them because cleaning is EVIL and SH#T is good!!!!!

    Go set them straight Robert!!!! You are the perfect representative. No amount of cleanser has ever been able to remove the bullsh#t you spew to regulators.
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  • #2
    Member 7000 PLUS POSTER Scott Stone's Avatar
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    This reminds me of the time that a Environmental Wonk from GE wanted to see the MSDS for my soaps, so that I could wash a bunch of trailers for her. She was complaining about the acids in my soap. There weren't any, so I had my soap guy call her and explain it. After he asked her if she had any kind of chemical background, and she said yes, he told her she was an idiot, because Sodium Metasilicate is nowhere on the Acidic spectrum. For some reason, they decided that no one was going to wash their trailers.
    I bet she got promoted soon after that.
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  • #3
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    But one drop of caustic will "kill all the wildlife in the sanitary sewer" - Jim Gamble - Western Environmental Director - Power Washers of America - PWNA.

    Thank goodness for educated leadership.
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  • #5
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    I assume you are talking about Jim since he is the one who made the misleading accusation about caustic.

    I'm sure Jim would come out fine sitting in a pool of poo with a few drops of caustic in it.

    I'd like to remind everyone that on the market today there are 320 body washes, 314 soaps, 272 moisturizers, 268 Anti-aging creams, 244 facial cleansers, 174 shampoos, 97 toothpastes, and 95 hand creams that get used on people nationwide and then washed down the drain on a daily basis.

    The big question would be:

    Does he have to be filtered first?

    I think that would be safer to all involved.
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  • #6
    Member Professor with Tenure Vince Wood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Shelton View Post
    I assume you are talking about Jim since he is the one who made the misleading accusation about caustic.

    I'm sure Jim would come out fine sitting in a pool of poo with a few drops of caustic in it.

    I'd like to remind everyone that on the market today there are 320 body washes, 314 soaps, 272 moisturizers, 268 Anti-aging creams, 244 facial cleansers, 174 shampoos, 97 toothpastes, and 95 hand creams that get used on people nationwide and then washed down the drain on a daily basis.

    The big question would be:

    Does he have to be filtered first?

    I think that would be safer to all involved.
    Of course he would have to be filtered Tony, it's the law here in California. Everything gets filtered, even humans before entering a sanitary sewer. I'll leave that up to you though to find one big enough.

  • #7
    Member Honorary Professor JDhomeservices's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Shelton View Post
    But one drop of caustic will "kill all the wildlife in the sanitary sewer" - Jim Gamble - Western Environmental Director - Power Washers of America - PWNA.

    Thank goodness for educated leadership.
    I happened to look at the ingredients on the Johnson and Johnson baby wash while I was giving my son a bath the other night. one of the ingredients is sodium hydroxide.

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  • #8
    Member Honorary Professor JDhomeservices's Avatar
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    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

    JOSH DAVIS
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    We are an awesome exterior cleaning service in the Ocala, FL area!
    We provide quality roof cleaning and pressure washing service in Marion County!
    Check us out on Facebook and Google +!

  • #9
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    And Sodium Hydroxide neutralized with Acid produces salt and water.

    The same salt that your cities and counties dump on the roads in the winter to stop accidents - the same water that comes down from the clouds. The same combination that goes right down the storm drain as soon as the spring melt starts, but in tiny, tiny quantities.

    Where is this kind of education in our industry?
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  • #10
    Member Associate Professor Steven Rowlett's Avatar
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    Soaps? Check out what was in Granny Clampett's Lye Soap (Sodium Hydroxide), you will find there is some in most all soaps. Just as glycerin is one of the main ingredients in all hand soaps, lotions and shaving creams. This was information I obtained when I had to shave twice a day at my last two jobs. Most would be suprised to find out what is in the products we use and consume on a daily basis.
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  • #11
    Member Graduate Student Everett Abrams's Avatar
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    Steve, sodium hydroxide is also in a lot of toothpaste!
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  • #12
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    My question is why, with the fact that the EPA realizes that a substance like bleach is preferable to poo, then why is it so outrageous to believe that a cup of sodium hydroxide (neutralized with acid - or even NOT neutralized with acid), is preferable to a nasty dumpster pad full of rotting food behind a restaurant?

    Why is it preferable to have a parking garage or parking lot left untouched for the rain to wash away all the oils and metals when it could easily be cleaned and filtered by gravity with one of the many technologies that are currently used in the construction industry?

    I will tell you why.

    It is because our industry has been let down by a false leadership.

    The PWNA to this day have not responded with any kind of action regarding the interference their environmental team brought into Nevada going so far as to OFFER TO REWRITE OUR BMP'S FOR A FEE.

    Instead of spending the last 20 years of time and resources working with the regulators for a common ground like the street sweeping associations have, our leadership has spent their time custom tailoring laws that force us to use reclaim equipment in virtually every cleaning situation.

    It is time to speak with your feet.

    The UAMCC will not be a part of this farce and have said so to the BOD of the PWNA. IF you are a member of the PWNA I'm going to go ahead and say it, at this point you are just as guilty as the leadership. You have given them plenty of time to correct this problem and now that it has been shown that they have no intention to fix it, any further influx of money into their coffers is a vote of support for what they have done.

    It's time to vote with your feet. I know there are plenty of guys out there who are members of both orgs. I understand the reasoning behind that. But the time comes when one org is doing all it can to destroy relationships between contractors and regulators (as they tried to do here in Las Vegas, in Houston and other places) that it becomes just simply WRONG to support it anymore with donations.

    Please examine the stance the PWNA has taken regarding the actions of Robert Hinderliter over the past 20 years and Jim Gamble over the past two and choose if their actions represent your interests or not. If not, one would be foolish to continue paying dues directed towards one's own demise.

    The UAMCC has been working tirelessly for the past year trying to build up relationships of local contractors with local regulators so that it will be impenetrable to the outside influences of the likes of Hinderliter and Gamble. As you can see from the prior threads this worked wonderfully here in Las Vegas as a prototype location. They ended up looking like fools to the regulators because we had already built a personal relationship with the local regulators based on the fact that we ARE responsible contractors and we are educated on the laws and operate using common sense.

    That prototype can work in your area too. We, at the UAMCC can help you build that kind of relationship.

    While our prototype worked here in Las Vegas, without a concentrated effort on your part it may not work in your area. Without a defunding and a public split from Hinderliter and Gamble the PWNA continues to lend pseudo-credibility to their quest. Do you really want to contribute to that?

    Its your own personal choice. I resigned from the PWNA and removed all references from my sites and my trucks a long time ago, back when Robert was deceptively asking for input on the BMPs with no intention of listening to anyone.

    I would implore you to do the same.
    Sonitx 845 S. Kenny Way Las Vegas, NV 89107 702-358-7477 Air Filter Service - Coil Cleaning - 2 month Payback


  • #13
    Member 7000 PLUS POSTER Doug Rucker's Avatar
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    I wish you had been the voice the last 20 years
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  • #14
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    I can't do anything alone Doug.

    It is going to take all of the UAMCC regional and state directors and and an active participation in the membership for this to turn around.

    And some of the distributors are going to have to help too.

    We almost waited too late.

    If it weren't for the economy taking a turn four years ago we would all be gone now and five or six large wastehauling companies would control the entire market. The realization that the local governments don't have unlimited funds is the only thing that slowed this train down.

    Now is the time to take the reigns and start interjecting some truth and common sense.
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  • #15
    Member 7000 PLUS POSTER Scott Stone's Avatar
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    It helps in the understanding of environmental regulations if you have a grip on chemistry. That is seriously lacking in this industry.
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  • #16
    Member 2500 PLUS POSTER Guy Blackmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Shelton View Post
    My question is why, with the fact that the EPA realizes that a substance like bleach is preferable to poo, then why is it so outrageous to believe that a cup of sodium hydroxide (neutralized with acid - or even NOT neutralized with acid), is preferable to a nasty dumpster pad full of rotting food behind a restaurant?

    Why is it preferable to have a parking garage or parking lot left untouched for the rain to wash away all the oils and metals when it could easily be cleaned and filtered by gravity with one of the many technologies that are currently used in the construction industry?

    I will tell you why.

    It is because our industry has been let down by a false leadership.

    The PWNA to this day have not responded with any kind of action regarding the interference their environmental team brought into Nevada going so far as to OFFER TO REWRITE OUR BMP'S FOR A FEE.

    Instead of spending the last 20 years of time and resources working with the regulators for a common ground like the street sweeping associations have, our leadership has spent their time custom tailoring laws that force us to use reclaim equipment in virtually every cleaning situation.

    It is time to speak with your feet.

    The UAMCC will not be a part of this farce and have said so to the BOD of the PWNA. IF you are a member of the PWNA I'm going to go ahead and say it, at this point you are just as guilty as the leadership. You have given them plenty of time to correct this problem and now that it has been shown that they have no intention to fix it, any further influx of money into their coffers is a vote of support for what they have done.

    It's time to vote with your feet. I know there are plenty of guys out there who are members of both orgs. I understand the reasoning behind that. But the time comes when one org is doing all it can to destroy relationships between contractors and regulators (as they tried to do here in Las Vegas, in Houston and other places) that it becomes just simply WRONG to support it anymore with donations.

    Please examine the stance the PWNA has taken regarding the actions of Robert Hinderliter over the past 20 years and Jim Gamble over the past two and choose if their actions represent your interests or not. If not, one would be foolish to continue paying dues directed towards one's own demise.

    The UAMCC has been working tirelessly for the past year trying to build up relationships of local contractors with local regulators so that it will be impenetrable to the outside influences of the likes of Hinderliter and Gamble. As you can see from the prior threads this worked wonderfully here in Las Vegas as a prototype location. They ended up looking like fools to the regulators because we had already built a personal relationship with the local regulators based on the fact that we ARE responsible contractors and we are educated on the laws and operate using common sense.

    That prototype can work in your area too. We, at the UAMCC can help you build that kind of relationship.

    While our prototype worked here in Las Vegas, without a concentrated effort on your part it may not work in your area. Without a defunding and a public split from Hinderliter and Gamble the PWNA continues to lend pseudo-credibility to their quest. Do you really want to contribute to that?

    Its your own personal choice. I resigned from the PWNA and removed all references from my sites and my trucks a long time ago, back when Robert was deceptively asking for input on the BMPs with no intention of listening to anyone.

    I would implore you to do the same.
    Great Post Tony!

    I don't think Contractors understand the gravity of what Robert & Jim did in Vegas, or what they could still be doing right now, and where. Yet Jim & Robert are on the boards posting as if nothing ever happened, that they did nothing what so ever wrong.

    When you provided proof of they're (continued) sabotage, I never thought this was done with the knowledge of the leadership of the PWNA. Now after months of continued silence, I can only surmise that they agree with the actions of their Environmental Committee. Although I was assured by a Board Member of the PWNA that action was going to be taken in this matter. This just goes to show where the PWNA stands.....yet again.

    Guess it doesn't matter if this is not happening in other Contractor areas...............Or Is It?

  • #17
    Member 7000 PLUS POSTER Doug Rucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Blackmon View Post
    Great Post Tony!

    I don't think Contractors understand the gravity of what Robert & Jim did in Vegas, or what they could still be doing right now, and where. Yet Jim & Robert are on the boards posting as if nothing ever happened, that they did nothing what so ever wrong.

    When you provided proof of they're (continued) sabotage, I never thought this was done with the knowledge of the leadership of the PWNA. Now after months of continued silence, I can only surmise that they agree with the actions of their Environmental Committee. Although I was assured by a Board Member of the PWNA that action was going to be taken in this matter. This just goes to show where the PWNA stands.....yet again.

    Guess it doesn't matter if this is not happening in other Contractor areas...............Or Is It?
    Guy, I sometimes think they won't ever understand the gravity until it affects them personally, in their wallet, as it has to you and I.
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  • #18
    Member 3000 PLUS POSTER Paul Kassander's Avatar
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    I agree Tony we need to continue to work on keeping this from driving contractors from the industry with excessive unnecessary regulations. The powerwashstore.com supports the UAMCC in its efforts to maintain reasonable environmental compliance measures.

  • #19
    BS Detector, Esquire 10,000 PLUS POSTER Tony Shelton's Avatar
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    Thanks for your support Paul.

    Your retail customers of the future are the guys who make it through this. Most vendors think that somehow they are all going to be the "one" who gets to sell to the large contractors that are left once Robert is done putting all the small guys out of business.

    The fact is, none of them will sell to the large companies that take over the market because those size operations will buy direct or have their own distributorships putting all the small distributors out of business or at least reduce them to selling to homeowners and fixing lawnmowers.

    I know this might be a long way down the road, but if we don't act now it is inevitable.

    It is funny this sewage issue should come out in the news now.

    Here is a slide from the upcoming UAMCC presentation for use in areas where contractors ask for our help in dealing with regulators. This slide has been in the presentation for almost 4 months now, but even becomes more relevant as we see the issue in the news:

    uamccslidepracticable.JPG
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  • #20
    Member 2500 PLUS POSTER Guy Blackmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Kassander View Post
    I agree Tony we need to continue to work on keeping this from driving contractors from the industry with excessive unnecessary regulations. The powerwashstore.com supports the UAMCC in its efforts to maintain reasonable environmental compliance measures.
    And don't think for for one minute Paul that Contractors (at least this one) don't know who and who is not (Distributors) supporting our Industry, and common sense regulation. Thank You very much for your continued support of the UAMCC, and Contractors everywhere!!!

    Contractors need the support of the Distributor side of our Industry, and we the Contractors need to show our gratitude of this support by purchasing our parts & equipment from only those Distributors that support us.

    We're all in this together.

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