Gunshot Wound

I have been on this board quite a bit since I joined. I have read as people dicussed numerous topics. I have seen alot of advice given some good and some bad. I have to say the thing that scares me and completely blows my mind is the number of you guys building your own pressure washers. I understand that now a days you can kind of piece one together yourself. The thing is this is very dangerous. An injury from a pressure washer is the same as a gunshot wound when it comes to treatment. They are costly to have treated and very painful. Something alot of you might not know is the major pressure washing manufacturers have about 50 lawsuits going at any given time. These range from an employee that got something in his eye, to falling off scaffolding to actual equipment malfunction. Now here is were it gets interesting. If you as an employer or business take it upon yourself to build your washer then you are considered the manufacturer. If something as simple as a hose bursts and injuries a passerby or one of your employees then you are the only party to the lawsuit. You will be sued, you will definitely be found negligent. You see without a manufacturer to be named in the lawsuit you will foot 100% of all of the legal bills and hospital bills. Now if its an employee and you get lucky and he doesn't sue you then you will only have to worry about the comp carrier. They will want to know what happened. They could end up coming back and sueing you as a manufacturer to recover their costs. Your comp rates will definitely skyrocket. They will ask questions like is the equipment ul or csa certified. The next question will be is such equipment available. Now remember they never ask a question that they don't already know the answer. If it happens to be a passerby you will end wishing you had that hack machine from home depot. You all buy insurance to protect yourselves. Then when you make your own pressure washer saving a couple of hundred bucks or even a thousand you leave yourself exposed to liability. This is not a good idea. The funniest thing is you get to write this money off as a business investment. So really Uncle same pays the added costs anyway. Now I know the hate will spew because I sell equipment. But the fact of the matter is several pressure washing companies have already been sued and put out of business for this exact reason. Remeber when you buy a complete unit that is safety certified you will pay more but you are getting more bang for your buck. The manufacturer will have no choice but to provide legal representation. You are paying for their engineering, their manufacturing experience and most of all you are paying for their support. I don't care what you do its none of my business. However I would be remiss if I continued to read these posts and never said anything.

Point taken, but I'm a little unclear in relation to the fact that every pressure washer made is an assembly of a few parts made by other manufacturers. If a hose burst, wouldn't that be on the hose manufacturer? And any other parts? Really, a pressure washing rig is a very straight forward simple thing. While money is probably the majority of the motivation to build, and I think the savings are thousands, there's also getting better equipment built just how you want it. Anyways I think the number of guys who build their own equipment is small, but how do you expect a bunch of hands on guys not to build stuff?

I'd say you're being a little over dramatic and making a little much of a very remote possibility but now I'm curious, what about when you replace an engine or a pump or do anything to a rig yourself?

I realize you are trying to help, but you are a little off on you info. My mounting an engine and pump on a steel plate is no different than my Landa dealer selling a custom unit that he did the same thing to. That is why we carry insurance policies.

Good points Tom D.

What is the statistics of cases that the pressure washing companies win?

It is very very difficult to show grounds that the manufacture is at fault. (Unless it is major manufacturer negligence or they have reports that numerous similar incidents have occurred).

The reason being that there are so many areas that the operator, owner, have to ensure was covered and have evidence that they have conducted.

Documented employee training, proper procedures, service records, startup check list, adjustments made by a qualified technician etc etc.

For example when last did any of us service our unloader? At how many hours is the first unloader service required? etc etc.

Its no different that the hourly tech. at my local dealer that doesnt care about his job too much, doing the work on my rig. If you start pointing the finger you'll run out of them. OJ simpson got away with murder. Sorry Tom but I dont agree. your insurance will cover it

Additionally, some are qualified to work on, or build equipment. I hold a special engineers license in the state of MN which allows me to work on boiler equipment up to 100hp. Perfect for my operation, and allows me to service my own equipment. I would suggest that anyone who builds or services their own equipment to look into the licensing requirements in their state. I will agree with you Tom, that there are many reasons to buy from a reputable manufacturer, but many reasons to DIY if you are capable. By the way, I buy my machines pre-built, I just do the service myself.

Interesting thread.

I can't comment on the pressure washing equipment, but I have experiences with welding machines and osha. Both electric and gas powered. I have been on or had guys on jobs where psha would happen to stop by. Aside from all the usual paper work they wanted, one of the items asked for on several occasions was osha certification for the welders.

The first time it happened I had to call my lws to ask what osha wanted. Come to find out I was ok as all my machines were serviced regularly there and every time they serviced a machine, they checked that it was osha compliant. I never really knew what all the requirements were, but I had the reciepts so II was covered.

Just a thought. especially with electric machines.

So if I am in the Mountains of W.Virginia working at a S/C and my pump blows, I am to find my local dealer wait for the right parts and have them put the 4 bolts in so I can get on my way. Alot of us travel with just about every part imaginable so that we can repair our rig's on the road.

I have probably repaired just about everything on my rig one time or another. This is what I call on the job training, I had my stuff repaired at so called certified shops before, and I got to tell you I have had more problems when they touch my stuff.

Not every shop has top shelf employees that know what their doing. Like the guy who changes your oil on your truck you get the bill and they check off the 30 other things they checked for you, meanwhile your standing right there and they dont even check your tire pressure.

I am sure their are good shops but there are more shops out there that could care less about going that extra mile for you. We do mostly everything ourselves but if I dont have the time I make sure I bring it to a specific guy who takes care of me and I make sure I take care of him as well.

First of all working on a mchine is much different than thinking because you can wrench you can manufacture. Second you are wron about the hose manufacturer. You put the product together. Why do you think large companies require UL OR CSA approved equipment werever possible? Why do you think if this isn't important Manufacturers would spend tens of thousands of dollars to get this certification? Did you know that as distributors of this equipment if we change the unloader to a different brand or style we take it out of certification? We must use the same brand and series of every replacement part. Build all you want. I will keep my opinion to my self. I don't care if you buy from me or any other vendor. I thought I should warn you. By the way for all the pressure washer/ insurance agents do you know that you must declare yourself as a manufacturer to build machinery. Otherwise I promise you your insurance will not cover this kind of thing. Like I said in the post I don't care what you do. However there might be one or two guys out there with enough sense to realyze what this post was about. Now I pissed because you guys always want to take some kind of shitty tone when people help you. I am done with this board. Everyone just attacks everyone wnyway. Russ kick me off. Ron don't start my contests I don't have time for games and this was the second day in a row someone took a ****on my posts. Alll you crybabies keep this board. I'm moving on

Tom you as a manufacturer make a really good point, but I think the latest turn of events may of tainted your thought of what the "Contractor's" responses might be.

"Let The Hate Spewing Begin"??????????? Really Tom, do you believe we are that close minded not to see your valid concerns. I hope not!!!!!

The Contractors on these boards are some of the most experienced,
qualified, educated and knowledgeable people I have ever met (and I have met quite a few of them!)!!!!

As a Rep for your company, you may want to choose your words a little more wisely.

This thread was put up here so you would get some ****. You stated it in your post that you were ready for the heat, There are people here that have been doing this longer than you are in buisness. If you cant take the critisisim then dont post a debateable topic.

Hey it's been real nice having ya !!

Hey Tom, please point out where someone took a dump on your post, I can't see it!!!!!

Got to agree with Nick, You were looking for a reason to get pissed Dude!!!!

Hope that "Bridging The Gap" between MFG & Contractor really works for ya!!!!!

Tomdurbin said:

First of all working on a mchine is much different than thinking because you can wrench you can manufacture. Second you are wron about the hose manufacturer. You put the product together. Why do you think large companies require UL OR CSA approved equipment werever possible? Why do you think if this isn't important Manufacturers would spend tens of thousands of dollars to get this certification? Did you know that as distributors of this equipment if we change the unloader to a different brand or style we take it out of certification? We must use the same brand and series of every replacement part. Build all you want. I will keep my opinion to my self. I don't care if you buy from me or any other vendor. I thought I should warn you. By the way for all the pressure washer/ insurance agents do you know that you must declare yourself as a manufacturer to build machinery. Otherwise I promise you your insurance will not cover this kind of thing. Like I said in the post I don't care what you do. However there might be one or two guys out there with enough sense to realyze what this post was about. Now I pissed because you guys always want to take some kind of shitty tone when people help you. I am done with this board. Everyone just attacks everyone wnyway. Russ kick me off. Ron don't start my contests I don't have time for games and this was the second day in a row someone took a shit on my posts. Alll you crybabies keep this board. I'm moving on

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This isn't a post this is a threat to all P/W that work on their own equipment. So if I buy a hot box and I mount it myself and do the plumbing I am in some trouble with my insurance company. Dude you need to get a grip on yourself, anyone doing this type of work for awhile is more than competent enough to turn a few wrenches. This post almost sounds like a plant to ruffle up some feathers, I beleive you were already gone when you put this post up.

We wont even let you have your fun, you just burned your bridge with the most informative BB on the net. If this post isnt removed in a few minutes along with you I will be very surprised. If not I will come back later and remove it myself.:crying:

Tom,
For a distributor to come on a BBS and cry about being debated is ridiculous. We are not weekend warriors who just fell off the turnip truck. You started the post, and knew you would get some flack, yet now you are going to take your toys and go home. BYE

Well it started out interesting.

If I'm reading this right unless you buy a complete trailer system you are considered a manufacturer. If you buy a skid and run a garden hose to it you are OK. But if you buy a skid run a bypass line to a float tank, then add a whip line to a hose reel or you add a burner to a cold water unit you are a manufacturer?

Seems like the individual components such as pumps, hoses, burners, unloaders etc would have some product liability exposure for their failure. I don't know any contractors here that manufacture anything. They may assemble for their own use. Now if they start selling units I can see your point.

I think the "bridging the gap" comment is dead on.

Just an opinion and worth every penny I'm charging for it.

Nick, this needs to stay. Don't remove anything. Contractors need to see this!!!!!!

IndyExterior said:

Well it started out interesting.

If I'm reading this right unless you buy a complete trailer system you are considered a manufacturer. If you buy a skid and run a garden hose to it you are OK. But if you buy a skid run a bypass line to a float tank, then add a whip line to a hose reel or you add a burner to a cold water unit you are a manufacturer?

Seems like the individual components such as pumps, hoses, burners, unloaders etc would have some product liability exposure for their failure. I don't know any contractors here that manufacture anything. They may assemble for their own use. Now if they start selling units I can see your point.

I think the "bridging the gap" comment is dead on.

Just an opinion and worth every penny I'm charging for it.

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I thought it was a good thread when it started.
I think what tom meant was we as contractors shouldn't go buy a pump, get a motor and all loose accessories, bolt together what we think will work and use it on jobs.

Hell, if I couldn,t repair my pos at night on a job, I would be totally out of business. Repairs are not the same as building from a loose box of parts. Replacing a unloader that is equal to or of greater quality is NOT being a manufacturer. That is being a business owner.

The only reason my welders went to the shop was for electronic work, always a circuit board or something going on them. We did our own oil changes, card work, small engine stuff. The comment about osha was just that my experiences with welders. a mobile piece of equipment.

As far as Tom wanting to leave. No body forces any body to go to any bbs. See you on a different board Tom.

Guy Blackmon said:

Nick, this needs to stay. Don't remove anything. Contractors need to see this!!!!!!

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:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thank_you2:

I am in agreement with Tom.
When you manufacture a pressure washer, you are de facto certifying that you have engineered it to the specifications you are making. Have you ever had a hose on your machine that was not designed to hold the heat, and slowly deteriorated, because you bought a hydraulic hose? How about using fittings for the pressure side that has not reached the specifications? Most Home depot fittings are designed for about 2000 PSI of constant pressure, when you put it together, you are saying that you designed the machine to the weakest component, operator excepted.
There are also certain OSHA standards that need to be met, along with the standard protocols.
BTW, if you think that your insurance is going to cover you putting a machine together, you better double check, because it usually won't.
I have way to much time, money and effort in my business to risk saving a few hundred bucks by putting together my own rig.

I agree it needs to stay. I also agree with Nick that this post was a plant to cause debate then run crying over to another board about his treatment here.

I understand that what Tom said in the initial post is a good selling point, and as a vendor he needs to use all the selling points he has in this economy. He can't be faulted for this.

But to make the point (with no proof - case histories, etc,) then to run away when a handful of contractors ask a few questions or give counterpoints is not what has made this board the most popular and informative on the net.

This type of behavior is a better fit on another board. I think Tom already knows that, he's been courting them for weeks and needed an excuse to run from PWI because I guess we're not buying enough stuff from him.

By the way, Tom, as far as your suing argument goes I'd challenge you to find a single attorney who'd take a case against a small pressure washing company who built their own rig if there are no deep manufacturers pockets to go after. Go ahead, call some attorneys and try the scenario on them and see how many takers you will have. Zero.