Pump Questions for the pro's at PWI

Clean County PW

Clean County PW

Active member
What are the thoughts of some of you guys on the following:
1-- Clutch pully that stops when Gun is not squeezed so this eliminates the need for an Unloader to go into bypass because the pump has stopped so it doesn't over heat or suffer any wear and tear. My question here would be is this safe for the pump to go from nothing to full tilt when the Gun is activated over and over and is it worth the extra expense for the Clutch Pully since there not cheap. Also do they sell those type pully's for larger then 20 HP engines??

2- Since I maybe building my own Powerwasher for the first time and space may be of a concern what do you guys think about using a gear reducer before the pump so the pump spins no faster then it would from a belt and would this type of set-up be just as safe on a pump for long term use as a belt driven set-up.

3-Lastly how do you figure what size engine as in HP if you were to run lets say like two TSF 2021 GP pumps rated at 8.5 gpm @ 3600psi??
Can you use the formala's for a gas engine GPM x PSI/1100= required hp when installing two pumps to it?? I'm thinking you would do the math for one pump and it would be the same for two. Example for the above pump it would be according to that formula you would need aprox a 28hp engine for the one pump or two pumps to it. Is that Correct?
 
Clean County PW said:
What are the thoughts of some of you guys on the following:
1-- Clutch pully that stops when Gun is not squeezed so this eliminates the need for an Unloader to go into bypass because the pump has stopped so it doesn't over heat or suffer any wear and tear. My question here would be is this safe for the pump to go from nothing to full tilt when the Gun is activated over and over and is it worth the extra expense for the Clutch Pully since there not cheap. Also do they sell those type pully's for larger then 20 HP engines??
Click to expand...
A clutch is a great idea, but you still have an unloader. The unloader has a switch on it that kicks the clutch out on bypass and re-engages it when the trigger is pulled. They are pressure actuated unloaders, so any leaks downstream would need to be addressed for proper operation.
Clean County PW said:
2- Since I maybe building my own Powerwasher for the first time and space may be of a concern what do you guys think about using a gear reducer before the pump so the pump spins no faster then it would from a belt and would this type of set-up be just as safe on a pump for long term use as a belt driven set-up.
Click to expand...
Yes, a gear drive would be the same as a belt drive for pump rpm.
Clean County PW said:
3-Lastly how do you figure what size engine as in HP if you were to run lets say like two TSF 2021 GP pumps rated at 8.5 gpm @ 3600psi??
Can you use the formala's for a gas engine GPM x PSI/1100= required hp when installing two pumps to it?? I'm thinking you would do the math for one pump and it would be the same for two. Example for the above pump it would be according to that formula you would need aprox a 28hp engine for the one pump or two pumps to it. Is that Correct?
Click to expand...
Use this formula for more accurate real world expectations...
(GPM X PSI/1450) X 1.5 = actual needed horsepower.
For your application, you'd need about 63 horsepower. You need to figure the power requirement for each pump and add them together.
 
Russ Johnson said:
A clutch is a great idea, but you still have an unloader. The unloader has a switch on it that kicks the clutch out on bypass and re-engages it when the trigger is pulled. They are pressure actuated unloaders, so any leaks downstream would need to be addressed for proper operation.

Yes, a gear drive would be the same as a belt drive for pump rpm.

Use this formula for more accurate real world expectations...
(GPM X PSI/1450) X 1.5 = actual needed horsepower.
For your application, you'd need about 63 horsepower. You need to figure the power requirement for each pump and add them together.
Click to expand...

Hey Russ thanks for the response. I have a couple of more questions because I am trying to figure this out. So its fair to assume that your just as confident in a Powerwasher that has a gear reducer before the pump as you would be with a belt Powerwasher??

Also what happens when you add a Generator into the mix for a "one pump" powerwasher?? Lets use this Hydrotek for an example--- SCU30009KAF* 3000 8.7 / 2 200 F 25Kohler Gas

On that powerwasher and according to the above formula that engine should be at least 27hp and I'm of course a believer to have an engine that is a little more then whats needed so I would look to have probably a 30hp Kohler on that. But since Hydrotek is the pro's on there machines and that above machine also has a generator on it that is most likely driven from a belt coming off of the 25hp kohler engine does the generator have any bearing in that formula and why would Hydrotek use a 25hp engine on that skid?? Keep in mind that I have owned a Hydrotek in the past as I have with Landa's and conrrently a Mi-T-m Hot water skid. All three I found to be very good powerwashers.
 
You need to add the additional horsepower for each piece, so if you are throwing a generator on there, figure at least 1 horsepower for each 400 watts. I am not sure of the exact formula, but that is close. The only exception is if it is an inverter type generator, but I don't think that there is a pressure washer manufacturer out there that does that type of system.
 
Might not be considered a pro, but here are what my thoughts are as I build my own PW.

Clutch pulley is great, except I don't like that I am restricted to an "A" belt. I prefer the "B" belts as they are bigger and seem to last long and hold the power well.

In terms of engines, honestly with what you want to run start with a diesel and don't look back. The upfront cost will be higher, but the fuel savings and power will make up for the down fall. Diesel truck, diesel burner, gas engine, why not keep it all diesel?

Running 17 gpm you had better have a big tank and or a real good water source.

Just my 2 cents, that's all.
 
Benjamin said:
Might not be considered a pro, but here are what my thoughts are as I build my own PW.

Clutch pulley is great, except I don't like that I am restricted to an "A" belt. I prefer the "B" belts as they are bigger and seem to last long and hold the power well.

In terms of engines, honestly with what you want to run start with a diesel and don't look back. The upfront cost will be higher, but the fuel savings and power will make up for the down fall. Diesel truck, diesel burner, gas engine, why not keep it all diesel?

Running 17 gpm you had better have a big tank and or a real good water source.

Just my 2 cents, that's all.
Click to expand...

I just sold off my Diesel Powerwasher. I am going to try doing the Gas/Diesel PW routine again since my 3 other Powerwashers are gas units.

As for the GPM I am shooting for about a total of 26gpm's. I'm going to have in the neighboor hood of an 800 gal. water tank. Still not sure about that one yet. I am setting up this flatbed to handle large surface jobs that we do. The very least is that this Flatbed will be able to handle two seperate Powerwashers in the range of 8gpm at 3000 min psi.
 
greg/sd said:
John how big is the flatbed if its over 15 ft you should be able to get three 8.5 gpm machines on it.
Click to expand...

Hey Greg-- I already have a Mi-t-m 8gpm 3500 psi hot water skid. I would like to maybe build my next one and there is so many different ways to do that. I'm leaning towards a Gear Reducer set-up to maximize space usage.

Does anyone know where they advertise on the net for large burners that can put out 1.2 million Btu's and more?? The largest ones I've seen on the general market is the one I just sold which was from Envirospec which are rated at 12gpm @ 880,000 btu's.

The Flatbed is 14'
 
Those heaters look like one of the 'giant chairs'.

I'm with Greg you are better off running two smaller burners (one for each pump) if you are running a dual pump setup.
 
Hey John, Dultmeier sales shows a 1,040,000 btu burner, but if I was you I would get a burner for each pump. I think it would be more efficient ($ wise in fuel) that way in the long run. Go with the General TSP pumps, I have had very good luck with them (have 3 that are all over 4 years old) Only had to replace packings once each I believe in 4 years! Only problem I have had with them was my fault. I put a 1" hose to the inlet and bout once a week it would blow an O ring under a check valve. Changed that to a 1 1/2" and that stopped.

I am planning on running the machine I am getting from you at about 10 gpm and am looking for another diesel motor now to run another GP 10 gpm pump for rinsing. Also going to have it where I can split both washers into 2 guns, for when we are fleet washing so I can knock the trucks out a lil faster. Also when a customers water flow won't keep up I can drop back to 5 or so gpm out of each and not have to wait on water. Putting 900 gallons worth of tanks in the box truck.
 
Cooper said:
Hey John, Dultmeier sales shows a 1,040,000 btu burner, but if I was you I would get a burner for each pump. I think it would be more efficient ($ wise in fuel) that way in the long run. Go with the General TSP pumps, I have had very good luck with them (have 3 that are all over 4 years old) Only had to replace packings once each I believe in 4 years! Only problem I have had with them was my fault. I put a 1" hose to the inlet and bout once a week it would blow an O ring under a check valve. Changed that to a 1 1/2" and that stopped.

I am planning on running the machine I am getting from you at about 10 gpm and am looking for another diesel motor now to run another GP 10 gpm pump for rinsing. Also going to have it where I can split both washers into 2 guns, for when we are fleet washing so I can knock the trucks out a lil faster. Also when a customers water flow won't keep up I can drop back to 5 or so gpm out of each and not have to wait on water. Putting 900 gallons worth of tanks in the box truck.
Click to expand...

Hey Dave I wouldn't mind seeing a finish product when your all done. That Diesel engine I sold ya is a work horse. Good luck with that. Your going to be more then happy with that engine.

As for what I am going to build or purchase I am most likely going to buy again another burner from Envirospec but its going to be the horizontal Burner due to I need low clearance for garage cleaning. As time goes by I am going to purchase a second one from them thats also a horizontal burner but first I need to go out and make some $$$$ to offset the cost.

I'll post pics when done.
 
Always get the answers here!!!

Clean County PW said:
What are the thoughts of some of you guys on the following:
1-- Clutch pully that stops when Gun is not squeezed so this eliminates the need for an Unloader to go into bypass because the pump has stopped so it doesn't over heat or suffer any wear and tear. My question here would be is this safe for the pump to go from nothing to full tilt when the Gun is activated over and over and is it worth the extra expense for the Clutch Pully since there not cheap. Also do they sell those type pully's for larger then 20 HP engines??

2- Since I maybe building my own Powerwasher for the first time and space may be of a concern what do you guys think about using a gear reducer before the pump so the pump spins no faster then it would from a belt and would this type of set-up be just as safe on a pump for long term use as a belt driven set-up.

3-Lastly how do you figure what size engine as in HP if you were to run lets say like two TSF 2021 GP pumps rated at 8.5 gpm @ 3600psi??
Can you use the formala's for a gas engine GPM x PSI/1100= required hp when installing two pumps to it?? I'm thinking you would do the math for one pump and it would be the same for two. Example for the above pump it would be according to that formula you would need aprox a 28hp engine for the one pump or two pumps to it. Is that Correct?
Click to expand...
 
John, post more pictures of the flatbed, it is a nice truck.
 
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