Why UAMCC

Truthfully I'm done with all this, it has nothing to do with our industry. This is about selling equipment and should be about Distributor business. We need a contractor association, this may happen some time after I'm dead.

We are alone as contractors an I will continue to help contractors for as long as I live.

If people where truly wanting to help the contractors Education is Houston is needed. The problem is that people want to spread mis-information about responsibilities.

Yes some have been told that Ron's doing nothing in Houston, Everything I have said has been verified by our Media in this industry. I'm not working with the Police, the police in Houston cannot change anything.( except there interpretation)

Recently a discovery was made and like all things time to get the facts straight.

My stance has always been and always will be the Houston authority is over stepping there jurisdiction. These are private properties and they are using state codes and enforcing them local. Plus the facts are they are handing un-just tickets to people who are not violating the State MS4 code.

When a lawyer can make a phone call to the DA and the tickets gone something is very wrong. This means they know something if challenged will not hold up. Its that simple, Houston is built on a house of cards.

I do not believe its going to take a million dollars to fight this. We need to simply hire someone to evaluate the problem. Someone honest and willing to tell you the loop holes.

This is not a cut and dry as enforcement wants to make it. This effects a ton of other service people, has any of our leaders contacted other association? No

I have contacted a limited amount myself, why because I'm one man. I will do what I can and continue to be supportive of this.

My problem is the people who two months ago not supportive have all of a sudden turned supportive. This has been going on for 4 years. Where were they this whole time???????????????????
 
Ron Musgraves said:
My problem is the people who two months ago not supportive have all of a sudden turned supportive. This has been going on for 4 years. Where were they this whole time???????????????????
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You know Ron you have alot of knowledge on this stuff but that line right there is typical of the "Blame Game". So many others want to help on this and you come out with that above response. Thats uncalled for. With that attitude some can say where were you back in 92 when Fort Worth Texas went thru some of this?? Where were you when alot of these guys flew down to Charlotte to support each other and accomplish there mission?? and what's the point of all of this anyway when now you have plenty that want to go down and help but somewhere Doug Rucker is asking others to not get involved because you and him have this one covered. So which is it??

How about this.. work with these other guys and get it done. Remember Law Enforcement doesn't bite and if a case is presented good enough then just maybe the law makers will listen and then bingo a law gets changed.

So quite the blame game because it never works.
Good Luck
 
Clean County PW said:
You know Ron you have alot of knowledge on this stuff but that line right there is typical of the "Blame Game". So many others want to help on this and you come out with that above response. Thats uncalled for. With that attitude some can say where were you back in 92 when Fort Worth Texas went thru some of this?? Where were you when alot of these guys flew down to Charlotte to support each other and accomplish there mission?? and what's the point of all of this anyway when now you have plenty that want to go down and help but somewhere Doug Rucker is asking others to not get involved because you and him have this one covered. So which is it??

How about this.. work with these other guys and get it done. Remember Law Enforcement doesn't bite and if a case is presented good enough then just maybe the law makers will listen and then bingo a law gets changed.

So quite the blame game because it never works.
Good Luck
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Not blaming anyone but myself, I have gone on record Houston my fault.

This will not happen again. Implementing a solution to awareness.

We will start training from coast to coast.

John I'm proud to say I have done everything I said I was going to do.

Anything I have not finished is only on hold or will be reworked.

Anything that's been maliciously shot at me rolled of and made me stronger.

So I'm less tolerant to liars and von artist. Some of these men you hold high regard for are just this!!

I've learned everyone and anyone who accused me of something was likely up to that very thing.

I'll give anyone a second chance, but when people want to invade my personal private life this is crossing the line.

All these men knew of hilborns escapade, they motivated it. It was not speculation , it's factual.

Not to mention the video camera caught it all on tape.

John this is the problem, you and most at the Pwna do not understand the cwa.

Robert talks about violating the cwa , I never want to even engage in storm water pollution.

While Robert the Pwna and now the uamcc engages in becoming major criminals in this industry I will teach contractor how to keep from polluting and reduce pollution for our children's future like I have done for 20plus years.

Robert reduced the fleetwash standards in ft worth. The price paid was more difficult standards for sidewalk cleaners.

I don't agree with all of Roberts theory and methods.

I'm sorry you will come to find that all property owners are responsible for there own rain water control and containment.

You will understand why the building commissioner signed the city ordinance.

Most city's this approach will not work, if it had there would have been more than ft worth in the last 18 years.

I'll make a bet, by end of 2013 ft worth will change. I'm willing to bet it's going to be major.

This is big, the last thing this industry needs in manufacture in the business of local business people trying to make a living.

John blame is apparent, you me and anyone that's allowed this is to blame.

How many good people has the association stuff ruined? No past president wants to touch the association except the ones who nearly killed it.

Change is happening, we as a colition will assist and help all. We will not care if your Pwna or ttag. If your a contractor in the cleaning industry will help. That's what I'm building.

I can say I have instrumentally educated more contractors in three months than past leaders have done in 15 years.

Yeah my heads big and I'm not broke, maybe that's what upsets more people than anything. In a down economy I keep coming on strong.

I'll tell you this, my customer base Is almost three time larger from 2008.

How many units il have by retirement in 2.9 years who knows????

Anyone that wants reasonable responsible practice I'll help. Anyone that thinks total reclaim is the end all is mistaken.

Have fun everyone else, sing that other stuff and good luck. You will be broke when Houston let's up!!
 
For your info I was working with the UAMCC up until tues. The president wants me to call him back, I do not care if they want to work or not with me. I'm not doing this for a badge or trophy. I'm doing this because of my own interests. (period)

For several years I have been silent about MI, GA, CA, all these Destinations that have been hurt by people with mis-information. We cleaned these messes up silent, I will no longer allow it.

I don't care who it is or what amount of money anyone throws around. Right is right, wrong is wrong.

Houston the nastiest city in america, they are doing something wrong? Now they are running around arresting Carpet cleaners. Whats NEXT?????????? The local Janitor at the School because he dumped mop water in the bushes?
 
Clean County PW said:
You know Ron you have alot of knowledge on this stuff but that line right there is typical of the "Blame Game". So many others want to help on this and you come out with that above response. Thats uncalled for. With that attitude some can say where were you back in 92 when Fort Worth Texas went thru some of this?? Where were you when alot of these guys flew down to Charlotte to support each other and accomplish there mission?? and what's the point of all of this anyway when now you have plenty that want to go down and help but somewhere Doug Rucker is asking others to not get involved because you and him have this one covered. So which is it??

How about this.. work with these other guys and get it done. Remember Law Enforcement doesn't bite and if a case is presented good enough then just maybe the law makers will listen and then bingo a law gets changed.

So quite the blame game because it never works.
Good Luck
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John, I was not asking anyone to not get involved. Perhaps I should, but really people can and will do what they want to do,that has been made quite obvious to me. What I have said is that next week's meeting on Thursday the 21st is not a place for contractors to show up and "make a showing", a political statement, pep rally or whatever else it can be called. Next week is an informational seminar only. The people putting on the seminar, law enforcement, can not help us. Anyone that wants to come next week is fine with me, I have no control over inviting people. I am merely saying, that some are a little misinformed as to what this meeting is, perhaps had they gotten involved from the beginning when asked, they would be a little more informed.

I was called by Robert Hinderliter yesterday. He aked if I knew if there was a meeting next week and if I planned to be there. I explained that I as well aware of the meeting as I had been aware of all the meetings like this the past year and half. I have attended every one since I got ticketed. He then asked me about getting 100 contractors to show up as a way of support. I had to explain to him that this is not that type of meeting and to please not try to turn this into something it isn't. Later Michael called me, and said that he had just reviewed the first half of the video from the last meeting and agreed with me it was not that type of meeting.

John I was ticketed in May of 2010 by the City of Houston's Environemntal Affairs Major Criminal Divison for an illegal discahrge to an MS4 not entirely composed of storm water. I did not at that time, know Ron at all. I called Ron for advice and help. He has been on this Houston thing from day one. We made everything public from day one. Ron tried to get the PWNA involved and in fact Ron was the one that made them aware of the last environmental seminar. Ron tried to get the PWNA and me on a conference call so I could talk about Houston, but the PWNA refused. All the PWNA wanted to do was push their stupid BMP's through. Imagine an org not wanting to speak to and hear from the very person that cited and alerted our contractors to this situation in Houston. When the PWNA didn't want to get involved Ron asked the UAMCC to do take the lead in it. Ron desaprately wanted on org to take the lead on this, he felt it would be a huge help to not only the orgs but the contractors as well and maybe finally validate one of these orgs as a contractor friendly org. So UAMCC shows up at the last meeting, but does really nothing after that. So Ron had to pick the ball up and run with it again.

For over a year now Ron and I (again I must say, Ron more than I)have been working on Houston, posting on PWI and other boards about Houston, trying to communicate with contractors and keep them in the loop. We have made much progress and continue to. Not once during this past year have I ever received a phone call from any board member of any org asking how they could help or even inquiring about what is going on. So I have to ask myself, are they (the orgs) really in this thing to help contractors or not. I SAY NOT. Then all of sudden I get a call from Robert yesterday asking if I am aware of the meeting and can I drum up 100 contractors for a show of support, and then a phone call from Michael that Michael has finally reviewed the tapes fromt the last meeting last March, and is in agreement w me about not making this meeting bigger than it is.. So yeah, it's not blame when Ron says certain people are all of sudden wanting to show support.It's fact.

The problem is they are misinformed and in some cases not informed at all and have already caused and could continue to cause bigger problems by trying to get in the ball game this late in the game. You say "we have plenty that want to come down and help but we We dont' need it because we got this covered." I feel that way because I don't look at what they are wanting to do as help John, I look at it as strirring the pot and trying to get some publicity on something we have been working on for over a year and a half and could cause more damage in the long run. Publicity on the problem is fine, publicity on actions we are taking hurts us here in Houston. Had I known that Robert was exchanging emails with the HEAD of ENFOECMENT, the people that ticket us, I would have begged and pleaded for him to stop.

I don't know Robert that well, had my first conversation with him yesterday. I have had a few conversations with Michael, but yesterday was the first time we really talked about Houston. I know Robert is highly respected in the industry, and people say that Robert has done a lot for the industry. What I do know is that I am not concerned about the industry, (to me the industry is a pretty broad spectrum of contractors, vendors, manufacures, Etc Etc) I am concerned about contractors here trying to make a living and feed their families. But as for me, a contractor, Ron is the only one that has done anything to HELP Houston. No one else has even been involved. I dont' doubt Robert and Michael have the best of intentions, but they are really not up to speed on the situaton here. Nor are to many other people. It's like your offer as a Law Enforcment Officer to come here and try to be a laison to the Law Enforcement here, Great Intentions and we appreciate the offer, but as volatile as the situation is here, that is the very thing that could cause it to explode here and set us way back.

I don't know anyting about Ft Worth in 92 or Charlotte in whenever it was. But I would hazard to guess, he probably wasn't asked to help or maybe tried but was rejected. Or maybe he felt he didnt have the proper information to be of help. Or maybe when he found out he felt it was to late to get int he game.

So yeah, when we've been working on this for the past 1 and 1/2 years and it's been going on longer than that, and all of sudden we have people wanting to make political statements, and rally the trops, we kind of have to ask, uhh where you been? why all sudden now? what's your motive?

So from my perspective let's let Ron be Ron. He's done this before, protecting and helping contractors. Let's let him do it again.
 
Clean County PW said:
Where were you when alot of these guys flew down to Charlotte to support each other and accomplish there mission??
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Without reading past this remark, I will tell you exactly where Ron was. He was in MY ear helping out like crazy. The PWNA had no time to help the Carolinas in EITHER one of our issues since 2008 - well, except to take credit for the drought progress that we made >:/ Even under duress the PWNC and UAMCC worked TOGETHER in Charlotte - however, I am the one that continued communications afterward, not the org.

At the end of the day - it DOES NOT PAY TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING for an industry that cannot be pleased. The best people to take care of problems are the contractors IN THE AREA AFFECTED.

This "industry" needs to stop bickering and BECOME EDUCATED in what is the most appropriate solution for their own backyard but there is no "one size fits all silver bullet" for a country. When an issue raises in an area - the local contractors should already know what is best and simply have to ask for back up from their fellow contractors and a national org. It doesn't have to be done and redone and digested, puked up and done over again.

I need coffee. All this testosterone is giving me a headache.
 
Maybe the Coalition can come up with a broad-spectrum set of BMP's that are depending on the area, situation, type of cleaning, etc.... so it shows that there are many different ways to be compliant with the CWA and that there really is no "Blanket set of BMP's" that will work in all areas. This can be many different types of cleaning situations and how to be CWA compliant without needing the manufacturer's manipulating the agenda and demanding that you need certain recovery equipment that you should buy from only a couple of vendors since they have an interest......I mean have the correct equipment for the job.

It would be nice to show how many are in the Coalition so that when that name is brought up and mention how many members there are VS. the orgs, it will show that there are probably more members in the Coalition so their voice might be listened to before the other's.

Tony, Ron, myself and others mentioned problems with the PWNA's proposed BMP's earlier this year, there were so many problems with that BMP that I typed a lot, so much that I had to resume typing another day as there was so much nonsense, wrong information and just a lot of B.S. in there that it would confuse just about anyone that wanted to do work as a contract cleaner.

I went to the Houston meeting and could not believe what I was listening to, they were making up ordinances as they go to get you fined without jumping through all kinds of hoops, pay all kinds of fees, haul waste water (not even mentioning Federal D.O.T. regulations that would probably fining you severely and possibe jail time if you listened to the city of Houston to do work the way they want you to do it) and much more!

I agree with Doug, things need to follow a certain progression and not be turned into a "rally" as that will only upset them, make them want to issue fines to you and not help what needs to be done. If this "rally" was to happen, I think that it could start a progression to more severe restrictions which would mean mandatory recovery equipment which when you think about it, that would help benefit the companies selling the equipment. Hmmmmmmmm very interesting..........

Ron is very smart and knows how things need to be worked out, there are things that will be brought out, probably into public which will mean some people will not only get upset but possible serious inquiries along with possible legal action. If this starts then there is a path that can be seen to make things better but certain things need to happen first.

I am sure that Ron does not want to explain every little detail as it would take forever typing and he has a lot of things to do but he has our best interest in hand, more than what I can say about certain orgs that have known about the problem and really have not done anything, but now want to try to help. Hmmmmmmmmm......................
 
Not that I would not be happy that the orgs are actually "doing" something, but jumping on a bandwagon IMO is not "doing", it's ducking. The Coalition has its work cut out just on damage control, much less progress.
 
From my quick reading of the Fort Worth Ordinance, there is too much empahsis placed on what they consider a nuisance and puts the burdeon back onto the contractor. Although the requirements do not seem that unreasonable from my quick reading, when you support a particular ordinance, you back the ordinance in its entirety, not the methods exclusively. As the methods are written they do not appear expensive or unreasonable and most probably abide by them without even trying but saying that discharge waster cannot hit a sidewalk is a bit of a stretch, how many times have you rinsed a house and water runs down the driveway onto the sidewalk???? That is polluting and in violation of the ordinance, should we reclaim for housewashes ?? Can I shove this hose in your toilet to get rid of the wastewater in the sanitary sewer ma'am?..... That is a bit over the top.
The whole ordinance should not be endorsed, it puts the contractor in a bad spot and leaves the city in the position to hurt your business........... that is not contractor friendly!
 
I don't get it. This looks like one of those you can't win for trying routines. Guy Blackmon is respected on this site and he even says that he would donate money to help with this and he also states that the contractors should ban together and show support July 21st and now its like where was anyone offering to help back then and now all of a sudden they want to help now..... but we don't need them???

But you also read in here or on another bb that Michael Hinderliter had this past meeting filmed and everyone wants to see it and Ron says that he should have filmed it but since Michael Hinderliter did he would also like to see the tape.

So Michael Hinderliter did this and he is a member of the PWNA and non members want it and he said he will get it to them.... then you read that there is a hidden agenda going on here but yet everyone wants Michaels tape.

I don't know. I feel Doug's pain because he's the one who got ticketed but maybe Doug and Ron should have kept this off of the bb's because people in this industry want to help a fellow contractor and yet right here because the help is coming a little late there getting kicked around for it.

How nice was it for Robert to call Doug and even offer to call many contractors to come down and support him. Like I said you just can't win for trying. I have some good news coming out soon and I tried to get it all done to coincide with that July 21st date. The message in the news is there for all to grasp. I'm guessing its just going to be unrealistic to do what I'm aiming this thing to do but its done and I'll pop it out next week.

If anyone wants a hint just go to www.pwna.org and scroll down a little on that first page. Take a long look at that picture and without ever knowing the story behind it all..... that picture there tells it all.
 
CarolinaProWash said:
At the end of the day - it DOES NOT PAY TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING for an industry that cannot be pleased. The best people to take care of problems are the contractors IN THE AREA AFFECTED.


This makes total sense.
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John the right help at the right time when it's needed, that's the key. Robert was not offering to call many contractors to come and offer support, he and Michael were wanting me to gather up 100 contractors to show up Thursday the 21st. Great Idea, but wrong venue. I am simply trying to explain that the meeting next Thursday is not that type of event. Michael and Robert understand this now. Guy recommended, (and Robert did as well recently) several months ago when the coaliton was formed that if it comes to it, we may need to get 100 contractors, gather the media and show up at City Hall. That's the venue for the "Making a showing". Not next Thursday. When and if the "making a showing" ideas are needed we will certainly let everybody know.

If 100 contractors want to show up Thursday, that is fine, hopefully they have all been able to register through Sylvia, (If your not registered you don't get In), but I am just trying to let the people know that this will not be a meeting where we can state our case or talk about getting changes made.

My whole point is that Ron has been working on this for over a year at my request and I just don't want to see us do something, even with the best of intentions, that could disrupt that. I do feel and appreciate the response and support, feels like we got an army of people ready to help, but it all has to be done in a professional and organized way. When it is time to rally the troops, believe me, everyone will know. After speaking with Michael the other night by phone, I feel like we are all on the same page now. As for posting on BBS, yeah I want to keep everyone informed of what is going on. Nobody likes suprises,and since this could affect everyone in some way or another, I feel keeping all contractors informed on what we can keep them informed on, is the smart thing to do.

Hope this clears some of your confusion up.
 
pdmcali said:
CarolinaProWash said:
At the end of the day - it DOES NOT PAY TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING for an industry that cannot be pleased. The best people to take care of problems are the contractors IN THE AREA AFFECTED.


This makes total sense.
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Yes it does, and That's exactly what I am trying to say. Thanks Celeste.
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If the show at the courthouse happens, let me know, I believe that I would be able to make it if things get that far.

It would really be nice to change things there in Houston but I understand that things have to progress in a certain order and in time.

Thanks for keeping us informed Doug.
 
Well said Celeste. Local people can take care of their own problems without vendors writing BMPS to make a dollar or hot heads around the country thinking they are helping jumping in. I am constantly amazed at the number people who actually believe this has anything whatsoever to do with saving the environment or making the earth "happy".
 
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