DO you ask customer's what they are paying?
Ask the Price????
- Thread starter Ron Musgraves
- Start date
Clean County PW
Active member
Ask there customers what there paying for what???
Mike Hughes
Former Board Administrator
i think ron is referring to a commercial job.........one that you are trying to obtain.....
Michael Cappa
Member
I don't, should I?
Jon
Member Specialist
Come on now, if the prospective customer is going to tell everyone who ask what they are paying we will have more lowballers out there then the business is able to handle.
Oh I am using so and so, I pay $ (fill it in) a week, every other week, month or whatever.
Oh really gee I can beat that price and still do good work.
Your hired.
Few month later another ask the same question, prices go lower and lower till your not making money.
I truthfully could care less what others charge, I base my price and what I feel the job is worth and how much profit I want to make.
Hey I will beat anyones price, even if I have to do it FREE. When that time comes I will be selling my rig and finding another type of business that is more inflation proof, like moving to Nevada and opening a House of Ill Repute.
Always business there, no worry about competitors as they probably stick together on prices.
Oh I am using so and so, I pay $ (fill it in) a week, every other week, month or whatever.
Oh really gee I can beat that price and still do good work.
Your hired.
Few month later another ask the same question, prices go lower and lower till your not making money.
I truthfully could care less what others charge, I base my price and what I feel the job is worth and how much profit I want to make.
Hey I will beat anyones price, even if I have to do it FREE. When that time comes I will be selling my rig and finding another type of business that is more inflation proof, like moving to Nevada and opening a House of Ill Repute.
Always business there, no worry about competitors as they probably stick together on prices.
Michael Cappa
Member
I'll go in partners with you on that one. Maybe we could clean all the cat houses too, he he.
Michael Cappa
Member
I'll take the 49%. I will get my other fringe benefits in other ways, hehe.
Jon, I agree with you, But if they were not looking for anyone they would not talk to you, But in the same hand, how do you know you did not leave money on the table...Lets just say your bid came in at 200.00 and x came in at 300.00... You dont know what x bid so there is 100.00 still sitting on the table... Good bidders come down to pennies on the dollar... So if you had bid 275.00, your still under that guy and still get the work... Dont just ask what they bid but see it... I am sure they give them a written bid... If they dont show you well go back to your way of billing, You know, I know, what the job costs are going to be, but if we say that and dont try for the extra cash, we wont make that extra buck and it will get lower and lower over time...
Not trying to argue, but if you dont push for higher cash, it wont just fall into your lap...
Matt
Not trying to argue, but if you dont push for higher cash, it wont just fall into your lap...
Matt
I ask everyone I can and if you’re smart salesmen you’ll know when to ask also. Some people you don’t ever ask it would be a mistake.
I guess the real question is how you know who to ask and not to ask.
Jon, I’m a sales person and it’s my job to find out the price. I will give you and example of how this helps clear confusion.
Customers have budgets and usually annual budgets. They only care about that one number.
I constantly get told that the guy is doing A,b,c,d & f areas all the time. When in fact the guys might be only doing A & C areas.
I can refute this by showing the customer a few things, one that the other areas are not clean by showing a demo. Two by measuring all the areas for him and helping him in getting bid criteria for other bids so he can get the right fare price and actually get what he wants done correctly. Once he has the actual Square footage then there is no guessing game. You now can show him on paper and he will demand that the other figure this the same way. Now we have made him a smarter consumer and help raise the standards of our industry.
How many of use do not use a measuring tape?
Bottom line is when this customer gets his next bid they will often be fare and comparable to yours. He will know that four people bidding and uses the method of bidding will not only be and advantage to but will achieve a fare process that in the long run will save him time and headaches.
By asking what the price was allowed me to establish that the customer was not getting the area done he wanted and gave me a second vehicle to achieve proving this to the customer.
Jon in fact this can help you against LOW_BALLERS Proof!!!!!!!is powerful
I guess the real question is how you know who to ask and not to ask.
Jon, I’m a sales person and it’s my job to find out the price. I will give you and example of how this helps clear confusion.
Customers have budgets and usually annual budgets. They only care about that one number.
I constantly get told that the guy is doing A,b,c,d & f areas all the time. When in fact the guys might be only doing A & C areas.
I can refute this by showing the customer a few things, one that the other areas are not clean by showing a demo. Two by measuring all the areas for him and helping him in getting bid criteria for other bids so he can get the right fare price and actually get what he wants done correctly. Once he has the actual Square footage then there is no guessing game. You now can show him on paper and he will demand that the other figure this the same way. Now we have made him a smarter consumer and help raise the standards of our industry.
How many of use do not use a measuring tape?
Bottom line is when this customer gets his next bid they will often be fare and comparable to yours. He will know that four people bidding and uses the method of bidding will not only be and advantage to but will achieve a fare process that in the long run will save him time and headaches.
By asking what the price was allowed me to establish that the customer was not getting the area done he wanted and gave me a second vehicle to achieve proving this to the customer.
Jon in fact this can help you against LOW_BALLERS Proof!!!!!!!is powerful
Jon
Member Specialist
Ron I still measure even if I eyeball and know what I am going to charge I measure and do the number thing. I do it for a few reasons which I am sure all would agree on.
1: Knowing total sq. ft.
2: Knowing time frame and amount if any of supplies needed.
3: To do what you mentioned, let the customer know how many sq. ft. there is to clean. I stop short of saying how I come to my prices, I don't tell them the amount per sq. ft. I might charge, to do that is to give everyone my prices.
Sure we all have pretty much a darn good idea of prices in our given area but why be so bold to say I charge xx a sq. ft.? Then the prospective customer can say to the next guy so and so qouted xx a sq. ft. beat that if you can. What happens is your competitor just learned your prices and is going to under bid you all over the place because he can figure what your bidding.
Now a lot of customers will show me their invoices, and a lot of them won't because they want the bidding to be fair, not under bid what they are paying now.
I know some accounts I have taken that I get more then the others were charging, but I am doing the work correctly too. I have seen Wal-Marts that the manager claims is being done twice a month, I said it looks more like once every two month. A nice demo smack in front of the main entrance took care of that competitor fast.
Gee I would love to bill accounts and just show up and wet the grounds claiming it was cleaned!
As for budgets there is a way around that but it is not an easy way around, I have found it to work at times and other times it is a brick wall.
Jon
PS: Ron I like how you saw I was not fighting you and your reply too.
1: Knowing total sq. ft.
2: Knowing time frame and amount if any of supplies needed.
3: To do what you mentioned, let the customer know how many sq. ft. there is to clean. I stop short of saying how I come to my prices, I don't tell them the amount per sq. ft. I might charge, to do that is to give everyone my prices.
Sure we all have pretty much a darn good idea of prices in our given area but why be so bold to say I charge xx a sq. ft.? Then the prospective customer can say to the next guy so and so qouted xx a sq. ft. beat that if you can. What happens is your competitor just learned your prices and is going to under bid you all over the place because he can figure what your bidding.
Now a lot of customers will show me their invoices, and a lot of them won't because they want the bidding to be fair, not under bid what they are paying now.
I know some accounts I have taken that I get more then the others were charging, but I am doing the work correctly too. I have seen Wal-Marts that the manager claims is being done twice a month, I said it looks more like once every two month. A nice demo smack in front of the main entrance took care of that competitor fast.
Gee I would love to bill accounts and just show up and wet the grounds claiming it was cleaned!
As for budgets there is a way around that but it is not an easy way around, I have found it to work at times and other times it is a brick wall.
Jon
PS: Ron I like how you saw I was not fighting you and your reply too.
Jon, we just disagree about the price. Giving the square footage isn’t going to protect the price. If you give me the price I can still figure your square footage. Think about that Jon?
If you include the square footage as ammo in your bid then the bid could be fair. What you’re talking about is doing exactly the same techniques a lowballer uses to confuse the customer.
Sure blowing a demo can help but having a clear understanding that the areas are not being clean help.
My prices are out in the open and if you ask me I will tell you. I want all my competitors to know what I charge. This is the only way we can elevate prices. Keeping customers in the dark and everyone else will only lower standards.
I actually mass distribute brochures with contract pricing. I don’t really care if my competition knows my prices. Sometimes this is a big help because they start realizing that they can bid higher and they raise there prices.
I use too worry about these things and I just don’t care anymore. If my competition wants to know my prices call me here’s my numbers… 602-694-2680
Jon , happy T-day,, don’t work too hard…
If you include the square footage as ammo in your bid then the bid could be fair. What you’re talking about is doing exactly the same techniques a lowballer uses to confuse the customer.
Sure blowing a demo can help but having a clear understanding that the areas are not being clean help.
My prices are out in the open and if you ask me I will tell you. I want all my competitors to know what I charge. This is the only way we can elevate prices. Keeping customers in the dark and everyone else will only lower standards.
I actually mass distribute brochures with contract pricing. I don’t really care if my competition knows my prices. Sometimes this is a big help because they start realizing that they can bid higher and they raise there prices.
I use too worry about these things and I just don’t care anymore. If my competition wants to know my prices call me here’s my numbers… 602-694-2680
Jon , happy T-day,, don’t work too hard…
Ron M.,
What if you have a heavy traffic area that is heavily soiled or has a lot of gum? Do you tell the customer that area cost two or three times as much a square foot to clean?
I think giving a customer to much info can be confusing to them.
Their biggest concern is the bottom line not how you got there.
Back the job with quality work!
What if you have a heavy traffic area that is heavily soiled or has a lot of gum? Do you tell the customer that area cost two or three times as much a square foot to clean?
I think giving a customer to much info can be confusing to them.
Their biggest concern is the bottom line not how you got there.
Back the job with quality work!
Ron,
You've got some good points in regards to ensuring your bids are apples to apples, especially if you initiate the offer and especially if it's a new customer. I have used similar methods of describing the job in the contract (with assumptions and exceptions) both in the P/W business and outside of it.
Some customers also ask for breakdown price by the square foot of your overall price. It depends on who you are dealing with.
If I'm dealing with a requested bid, I like to include a sketch with overall dimensions and overall square footage in my assumptions.
It can work both ways so you have to use some judgement on when to break down to detail and when not to.
I got a job recently because I provided a detailed bid on a custom new construction house brick and stone cleaning. Here is how I broke it down for him:
8K bricks (1143 sq ft - ground to 10 ft elevation) @$30/1000 = $240
10K bricks (1286 sq ft - 11ft to 32ft elevation) @$45/1000 =$450
500 sq ft stick on stone @ $0.35 / sq ft = $175
Winter cleaning charge $100
Total $965
Among other things (including a descrition of our procedures), I stated that this job in the summer could be completed in 1 day but the shortened daylight hours made this a 2 day job requiring the $100 winter cleaning premium. The 20-30ft elevations and terrain difficulties required a deviation from the $30/1000 rate to obtain the same quality results as the ground to 10 ft elevation work.
After awarding the job he told me that mine was the highest bid, but by understanding the details of my bid, he was able to go back to the other contractors and ask them details about how they would accomplish the task. Everyone else was completing the job in 1 day and was not pricing premium for work at 20-30 ft elevations (pricing same as ground to 10ft elevation). For $250 difference he wanted quality vs. cost.
Regards,
You've got some good points in regards to ensuring your bids are apples to apples, especially if you initiate the offer and especially if it's a new customer. I have used similar methods of describing the job in the contract (with assumptions and exceptions) both in the P/W business and outside of it.
Some customers also ask for breakdown price by the square foot of your overall price. It depends on who you are dealing with.
If I'm dealing with a requested bid, I like to include a sketch with overall dimensions and overall square footage in my assumptions.
It can work both ways so you have to use some judgement on when to break down to detail and when not to.
I got a job recently because I provided a detailed bid on a custom new construction house brick and stone cleaning. Here is how I broke it down for him:
8K bricks (1143 sq ft - ground to 10 ft elevation) @$30/1000 = $240
10K bricks (1286 sq ft - 11ft to 32ft elevation) @$45/1000 =$450
500 sq ft stick on stone @ $0.35 / sq ft = $175
Winter cleaning charge $100
Total $965
Among other things (including a descrition of our procedures), I stated that this job in the summer could be completed in 1 day but the shortened daylight hours made this a 2 day job requiring the $100 winter cleaning premium. The 20-30ft elevations and terrain difficulties required a deviation from the $30/1000 rate to obtain the same quality results as the ground to 10 ft elevation work.
After awarding the job he told me that mine was the highest bid, but by understanding the details of my bid, he was able to go back to the other contractors and ask them details about how they would accomplish the task. Everyone else was completing the job in 1 day and was not pricing premium for work at 20-30 ft elevations (pricing same as ground to 10ft elevation). For $250 difference he wanted quality vs. cost.
Regards,
Beyoungsr,
Initial clean ups would be a different price; maintenance price would be the same formula. Quality work is all I do, I have a guarantee that if your not happy don’t pay.
Paul, great points and there are always exception as you pointed out. I think you seen that as I said this earlier in the thread (
This quality issue because of price, this is how I justify charging more. This is not a lowball tactic but a high ball dream. Quality of my work has nothing to do with this thread. I get more money for jobs because we simply clear the confusion and show the customer that the area he is asking for will cost this. Often they are asking for those other areas but they are not being done by the other contractor. When you stipulate and give the customer better criteria and ask the customer to use your bid criteria you can watch the prices go up from everyone.
Here’s and example of how a friend of mine this week calls me about a proposal he got form a property mang firm and wanted to ask some questions. (To be continued) turkey needs attention….
Initial clean ups would be a different price; maintenance price would be the same formula. Quality work is all I do, I have a guarantee that if your not happy don’t pay.
Paul, great points and there are always exception as you pointed out. I think you seen that as I said this earlier in the thread (
)
This quality issue because of price, this is how I justify charging more. This is not a lowball tactic but a high ball dream. Quality of my work has nothing to do with this thread. I get more money for jobs because we simply clear the confusion and show the customer that the area he is asking for will cost this. Often they are asking for those other areas but they are not being done by the other contractor. When you stipulate and give the customer better criteria and ask the customer to use your bid criteria you can watch the prices go up from everyone.
Here’s and example of how a friend of mine this week calls me about a proposal he got form a property mang firm and wanted to ask some questions. (To be continued) turkey needs attention….
I think the overall point is communications. Detailing a bid can drive out different apples vs. oranges issues (quality, quantity, materials, etc.).
I used to inquiry equipment fabrication and when we put the bid tabulations together, more often than not, we would get bids all over the board. You'd get one at $100K, another at $75K, the third at $72K and the fourth at $76K and the fifth at $50K. (Of course these were all vendors that were pre-qualified to do the work.) The high's and low's we'd go back and ask them to explain their bids (without telling them they were high or low). More often than not the low bid was missing something, and the high was just high but at times they included something extra that wasn't asked for, so when we found that, they could back it out of the bid and have an apples to apples bid. Knowing details of how the work was executed could also explain why the work was also less expensive for one than the other. One may have a process that the other didn't which gave them the speed, therefore lower price.
My bottom line is that it never hurts to ask about the other's costs and I always cross-check.
Ron,
How's the turkey coming along?
We're skipping tradition this year and going with roast pork (lots of garlic and marinade), black beans and yellow rice, along with collard greens (some soul) and pumpkin pie (some tradition).
Regards,
I used to inquiry equipment fabrication and when we put the bid tabulations together, more often than not, we would get bids all over the board. You'd get one at $100K, another at $75K, the third at $72K and the fourth at $76K and the fifth at $50K. (Of course these were all vendors that were pre-qualified to do the work.) The high's and low's we'd go back and ask them to explain their bids (without telling them they were high or low). More often than not the low bid was missing something, and the high was just high but at times they included something extra that wasn't asked for, so when we found that, they could back it out of the bid and have an apples to apples bid. Knowing details of how the work was executed could also explain why the work was also less expensive for one than the other. One may have a process that the other didn't which gave them the speed, therefore lower price.
My bottom line is that it never hurts to ask about the other's costs and I always cross-check.
Ron,
How's the turkey coming along?
We're skipping tradition this year and going with roast pork (lots of garlic and marinade), black beans and yellow rice, along with collard greens (some soul) and pumpkin pie (some tradition).
Regards,