Better injector

Chazz

New member
I have to say I'm not happy with my injector, I have a 5.5 gpm and my injector is pulling about 13 to 1I'm running 150 feet of hose 3/8 and my injector size is smaller I believe it's a 2-3 gpm, my gun is a 12 gpm.The injector is installed on the side of my reel. I was thinking of trying an Allison super sucker but not sure if that will change anything..... Could it be my unloader or pump holding me back?
 

Alexy

New member
You have alot of resrictions with the elbows and swivels on reels . Try moving it past your reel to a break in the hose and see if you get the draw you want.
 

Kiloman

New member
At 13 to 1 you should be cleaning anything in front of you.How are you coming up with that draw rate.I am with Ed all the way with the sss once i tryed them i havent used anything else.They have interchangable thingys that will adapt to your machine.
 

Guy Blackmon

Roundtable Host 2009
What is down stream mix?

Should be somewhere around 3.5 to 1 bleach soap or even 4 to 1 bleach soap. Draw sounds right, think you've got a weak mix ratio.
 

Kiloman

New member
Guy send me an injector that pulls 13 to one my addy is on my signature.Let me know how much i owe ya lol.Chazz you also might have got a bad batch of injectors the chinese might have got wound up before they set there machines to make the injectors.Prior to me going with the sss i have ordered some from water cannon before an not one of them would draw.The only reason you need a undersized injector like you have is you need a really strong batch other wise i would keep it close.If you need it that strong put it on with a dedicated pump.
 

JBurd

New member
I just tested my sss (with the #3 oriface and #4) against my pressure tek one and they were the same. I drew a little over half a gallon to fill up a 5 gallon bucket. I think that makes about 16% draw rate (as in 16% of final mix came out of the soap bucket). My pw is an 18 hp 5.5 gpm. I also tried soap nozzles and no also no gun, got pretty much the same result. Hose was a little whip line.
 

Guy Blackmon

Roundtable Host 2009
Guy send me an injector that pulls 13 to one my addy is on my signature.Let me know how much i owe ya lol.Chazz you also might have got a bad batch of injectors the chinese might have got wound up before they set there machines to make the injectors.Prior to me going with the sss i have ordered some from water cannon before an not one of them would draw.The only reason you need a undersized injector like you have is you need a really strong batch other wise i would keep it close.If you need it that strong put it on with a dedicated pump.

More or less that's what the Hi-draws pull that I use Hal, go buy your own... LOL. The reason you under size down streamers is so you can pull chem with longer hose. I use 3 to 5 gpm injectors for our 8 gpm machines and pull from 200' hoses, last year we pulled chem from 400' of hose with injector at the reel.

Guess it depends on your set up.
 

Kiloman

New member
Why in the world would anyone want to restrict that much flow just curious you have that 8 gpms why not use them.A sss will pull with well over 400 feet without undersizing and a hi draw will not pull at 13 to 1.The only injecter that i have even heard of to make a 10-1 draw is a cobra injector but i am scared of snakes or anything named after a snake so i just stay clear lol
 

Johnson

New member
Hal, my injector from Pressure Tek pulls 10-1. I was a little disappointed when I discovered that because I thought it would be in the 5 or 8-1 range as some guys claim they get with the same setup as me.
 

Christopher

Moderator
I have to say I'm not happy with my injector, I have a 5.5 gpm and my injector is pulling about 13 to 1I'm running 150 feet of hose 3/8 and my injector size is smaller I believe it's a 2-3 gpm, my gun is a 12 gpm.The injector is installed on the side of my reel. I was thinking of trying an Allison super sucker but not sure if that will change anything..... Could it be my unloader or pump holding me back?

There are so many variables here, without seeing a picture of the system, hose reel, etc.... it is hard to say what the exact problem is.

If you have a brass hose reel swivel, throw that away and get a super swivel, look inside it and see the opening and you will understand what I am talking about, most are about 1/4" or less for an opening, this is another restriction in the system.

I use mostly the SSS as they pull great and seem to last a lot longer than the General Hi Draw injectors.

I got a 13:1 ratio with my sss with 200' of 3/8" pressure hose using a 2540 or a 1540 nozzle, cannot remember which one I tried but I use both of those along with a 0040 for house washing.

Don't believe the posted ratios, if you believe those then I have some property to sell you, those posted numbers are for the newbies and people that are new to the industry that have not tested their system to see what it will actually pull.

I have had a general Hi Draw pull with a 400' and 500' hose before but they did not last as long as the sss and the chemical strength was not as strong as the sss with the same length of hose on the same job.
 

Christopher

Moderator
I just tested my sss (with the #3 oriface and #4) against my pressure tek one and they were the same. I drew a little over half a gallon to fill up a 5 gallon bucket. I think that makes about 16% draw rate (as in 16% of final mix came out of the soap bucket). My pw is an 18 hp 5.5 gpm. I also tried soap nozzles and no also no gun, got pretty much the same result. Hose was a little whip line.

If you want to know exactly what ratio you have, use a measuring pitcher, quart size with 2 or 4 ounce increments and put the downstream hose into the pitcher and pull the trigger and count for a minute then let go of the trigger. You will see exactly how many ounces your injector pulls with whatever length of hose you are using and what nozzle you are using (different hose lengths and different orifice nozzles will give you different results so use what you always use to be consistent, I have done a lot of testing on this).

Multiply your gpm x 128 for the total ounces. Divide this by the ounces of water pulled by the injector and this will tell you exactly what ratio your injector is pulling with that hose and nozzle.

Guessing with 1/2 gallon or buckets will not give you the best result, especially if you are not getting the results you want. It could be the injector is not pulling the advertised 5:1 or whatever B.S. they are selling you or it could be your chemicals are old and weak (this happens a lot as the chemicals sit in warehouses for months a lot of times unless you are lucky and get them from the guys that get them from the supplier that same day or week) but for the rest of us, what we get is at least weeks old or older.
 

Christopher

Moderator
Why in the world would anyone want to restrict that much flow just curious you have that 8 gpms why not use them.A sss will pull with well over 400 feet without undersizing and a hi draw will not pull at 13 to 1.The only injecter that i have even heard of to make a 10-1 draw is a cobra injector but i am scared of snakes or anything named after a snake so i just stay clear lol

There is no way in Hell that the cobra injector pulls 10:1 unless maybe you are running 3gpm or less, I have 2 of them (want to buy them cheaper than new, only about 6 months on them).

I was told that they would pull 20:1 but with my 5.6gpm hotsy, they never pulled better than 40:1 but with 150' of hose, the ratio turned into 143:1. I did some modifying and some tricks to get it down to 35:1

There is no way that going from 4gpm to 5.6gpm the ratio will change from 20:1 to 40:1 or worse, that just does not happen, this injector will not pull 20:1 with pressure of 1500psi like advertised and told to me numerous times when I called them.

I need to send one of them back to be rebuilt but then I will put both of them up for sale, cheaper than the new price obviously but they are expensive, very expensive.
 

Christopher

Moderator
Hal, my injector from Pressure Tek pulls 10-1. I was a little disappointed when I discovered that because I thought it would be in the 5 or 8-1 range as some guys claim they get with the same setup as me.

There are some reasons that the other guys pull 8:1, maybe better and you might not see why initially.

Take a good look at their system, typically the 4gpm 4000psi machines will pull a stronger ratio than the 5gpm machines and larger, that is just how it is.

Restrictions like swivels, length of hose, nozzles, guns, length of wands on the guns, what shape the pump packings are in, cold water or hot, etc... all play in how strong of ratio the injector pulls.

You could put 2 brand new machines together side by side, same brand, same everything else and there might still be a difference in the final draw ratio when checking with measuring pitchers and doing the math.
 

Chazz

New member
Whew thats a load of info I will have to read over.
I thought most people were getting 10:1 or better
I'm using 6 percent clorox because the SH 12 is about 7 dollars a gallon at the pool store. So at 13:1 using 6 percent I figure can't be to good of a mix
Guy I would put 3 gallons of bleach and 2 scoops of simple cherry and a shot of dawn (because I like to see the soap coming out) and top off with some water
I guess I should leave the water out of my mix.
 

Christopher

Moderator
First thing you need to do is find another supplier instead of the pool store, they have the oldest stuff.

Do a search here on PWI for supplier names, it has been discussed probably a dozen times or more and contact them as the season is starting.

Don't use the household stuff, that is another part of the problem, I don't care what anyone says, that is too weak unless you are using an X-Jet to apply it and don't mind carrying around the buckets without them tipping over when pulling hoses or don't see them when walking and spraying (not going into the X-Jet vs. downstreaming debate here since the title of the thread is about injectors).

The other problem is adding water to already weak stuff, again find a commercial supplier, there will be one in your area, look a lot if you have to but there will be one.

I use the simple cherry and have tried the green wash, both are good for house washing.

All the above is probably all that is keeping you from getting great results, probably not the injector itself but go and do the testing so you know what kind of ratio you are getting so you will know and understand how you get the numbers then try different nozzles and different length of hose so you will understand more as it will help you a lot in the future with different cleaning projects.

Tell us what kind of ratios you get and how many suppliers you found and how much cheaper it is per gallon than the old stuff at the pool store.
 

Chazz

New member
I can't buy A 55 gallon drum because I'm just starting out
And My jobs are few and far between so my SH would go bad. I did do the food coloring test last summer and thats how I know I'm 13 to 1. I will experiment some more and use your advise
Thank you very much for your help.
I did just buy an m5 xjet and loved the way it sucked the chemicals out of the bucket and that's what started me thinking about getting a better injector
 

Paul Kassander

New member
Like Chris said there are a lot of places for restriction that can effect draw rate.

I would start at the gun that is where most people have their issues.
 

Chazz

New member
Yeah bought the gun along with the injector and I can't find the receipt For the type of gun it is but bob hooked me up with what I needed
 

Kiloman

New member
Well if you use the store bought bleach which i have used in a pinch maybe between orders or what not.Just use it straight and dont dilute it.You can add some simple cherry or Pauls product house wash product blue vodoo in it.The sodium metisilicate in the vodoo will aid in boosting the cleaning power of the bleach.Just dont get carried away with the numbers an ratios.Like Chris said chemical might be weak from just sitting around who knows but i would have a couple extra injectors and try them out they could be bad from the factory.The main thing is hurry up and figure out what is gonna work best for you so you can save time and money when your on a job.
 
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