New Idea
- Thread starter mikey
- Start date
Today I met a young (well, 40ish) man who had a sudden midnight altitude change. About 20 feet. By the time he was discovered he had moved about and the damage was done - he is now on permanent social security disability. A partner could have prevented this tragedy. Lesson - never go alone.
Richard
Richard
RustyACE
President CHDCA
The idea that a partner will prevent an accident isn't logical.
A partner will speed up someone helping you after you have fallen, but not prevent the fall.
A team of hood cleaners here in Nashville, guy walks off a roof, falls 2 stories, lands on cement stair case, falls down the stair case, ripping his leg off and lands in a big bloody heap at the bottom.
Facilitec bid the job, sub'd work out to another company, who sub'd the actual work out to a crew of hood cleaners. Fan sits right near the edge of the building with no side rails, or raised edge.
Safety has to be taught through and through when doing hood cleaning. You have to have the voice of your trainer stuck in your head constantly reminding you to work safely.
You ask anybody that has been trained by us what is going through their mind when cleaning and you'll get a consistent response. Roger's voice is constantly in your head reminding you of "his commandments." Break one of his commandments and you will get hurt.
Working alone every night cleaning hoods can be dangerous, but not because I'm alone, but because of mental distraction and improper lighting.
Also, rarely am I truly alone, almost always there is an employee, or manager on site.
As far as your idea, the police have a similar device that if they wind up in a horizontal position, it automatically calls the dispatcher. It could probably be modified to use a cell phone, sort of like the "I've fallen and can't get up" type from years ago.
We don't get paid the big bucks to clean hoods because this is easy and safe work. If it was easy and safe, everybody would be doing it. We get paid for our ability to perform safely and give the customer satisfaction knowing that a good job was done for them.
I wish for everyone to always keep safety at the top of their noodle when doing this work. Just driving to our jobs sometimes can be more dangerous than actually performing the work.
A partner will speed up someone helping you after you have fallen, but not prevent the fall.
A team of hood cleaners here in Nashville, guy walks off a roof, falls 2 stories, lands on cement stair case, falls down the stair case, ripping his leg off and lands in a big bloody heap at the bottom.
Facilitec bid the job, sub'd work out to another company, who sub'd the actual work out to a crew of hood cleaners. Fan sits right near the edge of the building with no side rails, or raised edge.
Safety has to be taught through and through when doing hood cleaning. You have to have the voice of your trainer stuck in your head constantly reminding you to work safely.
You ask anybody that has been trained by us what is going through their mind when cleaning and you'll get a consistent response. Roger's voice is constantly in your head reminding you of "his commandments." Break one of his commandments and you will get hurt.
Working alone every night cleaning hoods can be dangerous, but not because I'm alone, but because of mental distraction and improper lighting.
Also, rarely am I truly alone, almost always there is an employee, or manager on site.
As far as your idea, the police have a similar device that if they wind up in a horizontal position, it automatically calls the dispatcher. It could probably be modified to use a cell phone, sort of like the "I've fallen and can't get up" type from years ago.
We don't get paid the big bucks to clean hoods because this is easy and safe work. If it was easy and safe, everybody would be doing it. We get paid for our ability to perform safely and give the customer satisfaction knowing that a good job was done for them.
I wish for everyone to always keep safety at the top of their noodle when doing this work. Just driving to our jobs sometimes can be more dangerous than actually performing the work.
That is sheer foolishness. To suppose a partner can "prevent" injury is not only illogical - it is absurd. You are the same guy who, some months ago, failed to cut the breaker to a roof fan and was knocked on your butt (your own post). You are lucky to be alive. Do this if you want, but don't jeapordize others with that insanity. Safety is more 'caught' than "taught". We realize you were a beginner last year and a victim of your own inexperience, but surely it wasn't "Roger's voice" (whatever that is) resounding in your head that directed you to foolishly rely on the roof switch. This kind of 'teaching' really needs to be stamped out.
Curious - how many others "almost always" have "an employee, or manager on site"? In respect to our operations I cannot even remember when we last had any person at all on or about the premises while we worked. We virtually always secure the premises and then leave. We are adults and have emergency training, which indeed can prevent additional trauma and turn an otherwise very serious situation into nothing more than an inconvenience. I could list so many accounts I have witnessed it would not be believed - I 'wrenched' for my pro-motocrosser son for 5 years and saw a number of injuries every week, both mild (broken clavicals, etc) and past severe. I have assisted many, many times. Many are tantamount to the industrial injuries to which we are subject. Immediate assistance can very well save your life - take it from experience. Always have immediate (like right now) assistance on hand.
Richard
Curious - how many others "almost always" have "an employee, or manager on site"? In respect to our operations I cannot even remember when we last had any person at all on or about the premises while we worked. We virtually always secure the premises and then leave. We are adults and have emergency training, which indeed can prevent additional trauma and turn an otherwise very serious situation into nothing more than an inconvenience. I could list so many accounts I have witnessed it would not be believed - I 'wrenched' for my pro-motocrosser son for 5 years and saw a number of injuries every week, both mild (broken clavicals, etc) and past severe. I have assisted many, many times. Many are tantamount to the industrial injuries to which we are subject. Immediate assistance can very well save your life - take it from experience. Always have immediate (like right now) assistance on hand.
Richard
RustyACE
President CHDCA
1st.. the guy that electrocuted himself (not me) touched a fan housing without rubber gloves. The restaurant had been closed for several years and we were there to try and clean it and get it ready to re-open. The breaker was turned on (downstairs) to evaluate if the fan would operate, which it didn't, so when he touched the housing to evaulate the fan, he found out why.
2nd.. it was implied that if you have a crew that you won't get injured. That is the point that I'm making. That just because you have a crew, that it won't keep you from getting injured if you make stupid mistakes. There were 3 of us there at that job site and he got shocked (not seriously, just enough to make sure that he let go very quickly and didn't touch it again) doing something that he was told not to do without wearing rubber gloves. He broke one of Roger's commandments.
We've trained a lot of people to do this line of work, and most have helpers. Some, like myself, choose to work alone. Me working alone, doesn't make it any more unsafe to clean hoods. I am the one that is responsible for my safety. That's going through my head the entire time I'm there.
Maybe you mis-understood what I was trying to say.
2nd.. it was implied that if you have a crew that you won't get injured. That is the point that I'm making. That just because you have a crew, that it won't keep you from getting injured if you make stupid mistakes. There were 3 of us there at that job site and he got shocked (not seriously, just enough to make sure that he let go very quickly and didn't touch it again) doing something that he was told not to do without wearing rubber gloves. He broke one of Roger's commandments.
We've trained a lot of people to do this line of work, and most have helpers. Some, like myself, choose to work alone. Me working alone, doesn't make it any more unsafe to clean hoods. I am the one that is responsible for my safety. That's going through my head the entire time I'm there.
Maybe you mis-understood what I was trying to say.
MIMobileWash
New member
Rusty you get no respect!!
Dlee
New member
Been there done that "one man crew" that is, and I would not ever reccommend to anyone that KES cleaning is a one man job. It simply is not just for safety issues alone. However, if you are an idiot and think you should be working alone in this "mostly" extreme envirorment with all sorts of hazzards then by all means convince yourself you are an idiot.
I wonder how a one man crew's family would feel should an accident happen that takes a life, ends up in a coma from head injury or electrocution. According to some they would probally say he was doing alright untill he killed himself.
Here are some word of wisdom..
I wonder how a one man crew's family would feel should an accident happen that takes a life, ends up in a coma from head injury or electrocution. According to some they would probally say he was doing alright untill he killed himself.
Here are some word of wisdom..
Desiderata
"Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy." -Max Ehrmann
RustyACE
President CHDCA
The point that I was making:
1 person crew can be just as dangerous as a 2 person crew. The fact that there is a 2nd person there doesn't prevent you from having the accident in the first place. Multi-person crews DO NOT PREVENT THE INJURY in the first place; it simply speeds up access to medical care.
That was the point that I was making.
I've heard of many hood cleaners getting hurt, some as 1 person crews and others as 2 or 3 person crews. The fact that there are more people there did not prevent these injuries.
Getting hurt/injuried on the job site is an independent event of whether you are alone or have a crew of men standing around watching you get hurt.
As far as Mikey's idea, it's as good of an idea as any that I've heard out there.
1 person cleaning crews have to work differently than a crew of hood cleaners. That's why a crew of hood cleaners will never be able to understand a 1 person crew.
I'd say about 3/4 of the people that we train, wind up using crews. Each individual has a choice to make, and since the company is theirs to run how they see fit, they can choose to have a helper, run crews or work alone.
It's a proven fact that most people that fall off ladders had someone holding the ladder for them. It's a mental perception that the ladder is safe because someone is holding it and you take more risk than you normally would.
Now I'm not saying that you multi-person crews hold each other's ladder, but the point that I was making is that we develop a false since of security when someone else is around, and take greater risks than we normally would.
When I'm cleaning hoods alone, I have to stay 100% focused on what I'm doing and make sure that safety and technique is what prevents me from getting injured.
Also, as a 1 person crew, I can be much more selective on the type of jobs that I agree to clean. As a crew, you are told by the boss, go here clean that. The boss doesn't want to hear why you can't clean it, figure it out and do it.
We are operating on different assumptions and that's the only reason that I can figure that you don't understand what I typed earlier in the post.
1 person crew can be just as dangerous as a 2 person crew. The fact that there is a 2nd person there doesn't prevent you from having the accident in the first place. Multi-person crews DO NOT PREVENT THE INJURY in the first place; it simply speeds up access to medical care.
That was the point that I was making.
I've heard of many hood cleaners getting hurt, some as 1 person crews and others as 2 or 3 person crews. The fact that there are more people there did not prevent these injuries.
Getting hurt/injuried on the job site is an independent event of whether you are alone or have a crew of men standing around watching you get hurt.
As far as Mikey's idea, it's as good of an idea as any that I've heard out there.
1 person cleaning crews have to work differently than a crew of hood cleaners. That's why a crew of hood cleaners will never be able to understand a 1 person crew.
I'd say about 3/4 of the people that we train, wind up using crews. Each individual has a choice to make, and since the company is theirs to run how they see fit, they can choose to have a helper, run crews or work alone.
It's a proven fact that most people that fall off ladders had someone holding the ladder for them. It's a mental perception that the ladder is safe because someone is holding it and you take more risk than you normally would.
Now I'm not saying that you multi-person crews hold each other's ladder, but the point that I was making is that we develop a false since of security when someone else is around, and take greater risks than we normally would.
When I'm cleaning hoods alone, I have to stay 100% focused on what I'm doing and make sure that safety and technique is what prevents me from getting injured.
Also, as a 1 person crew, I can be much more selective on the type of jobs that I agree to clean. As a crew, you are told by the boss, go here clean that. The boss doesn't want to hear why you can't clean it, figure it out and do it.
We are operating on different assumptions and that's the only reason that I can figure that you don't understand what I typed earlier in the post.
dodsonish
Grease Police President
Rusty- Why even try to explain? If you say up it has to be down, black then white.
I would say any family of any kind of worker who gets killed would feel the same. There are hazzards in every line of work. Construction workers work alone all of the time, with similar hazzards. Do painters always work with a buddy? They don't just climb on ladders or walk on roofs, they work standing on ladders. Does that make painters and contstruction workers idiots? Having someone watch you spill off a ladder or step off a roof doesn't help the fall. Just work smart and stay alert, hopefully none of us ever have to deal with these problems.
I would say any family of any kind of worker who gets killed would feel the same. There are hazzards in every line of work. Construction workers work alone all of the time, with similar hazzards. Do painters always work with a buddy? They don't just climb on ladders or walk on roofs, they work standing on ladders. Does that make painters and contstruction workers idiots? Having someone watch you spill off a ladder or step off a roof doesn't help the fall. Just work smart and stay alert, hopefully none of us ever have to deal with these problems.
kmjt1021
Member
I can say that I had two guys watch me fall and dislocate my ankle several years ago, I still have a little hitch in my gitty up from that. In fact I could make the argument that had they not tried to stop the ladder and let it simply slide away I may have not gotten tangled up in it and simply only had some bumps and bruises from the fall.
The reason the ladder ( 10’ step) slid out from in the first place was because I was not using it properly, I had to get several feet above the drop ceiling and the ladder would not open up in the space left from the removed tile, so at the time my only way was to not open the ladder and lean it against a pipe in the ceiling, you know the rest.
The reason the ladder ( 10’ step) slid out from in the first place was because I was not using it properly, I had to get several feet above the drop ceiling and the ladder would not open up in the space left from the removed tile, so at the time my only way was to not open the ladder and lean it against a pipe in the ceiling, you know the rest.