Deprecated: Optional parameter $tapatalkHead declared before required parameter $xfOriginData is implicitly treated as a required parameter in /var/www/vhosts/propowerwash.com/httpdocs/board/upload/src/addons/Tapatalk/Listener/Hook.php on line 205

Phil Acklands Issues

D

David Saulque

Senior Moderator
Several weeks ago, I was informed that Phil Ackland was presenting his menu of programs to IKECA. At that time I was excited over the prospects of a renewed association relationship with one of the original founders.

Then I learn from another person who stated that the program was rejected by the IKECA Board of Directors. I was surprised of this development to say the least.

Phil and some of the leading members of the board have for several years been on less than positive terms. All issues have two sides, however Phil has always been a gentleman and up front with any situation that directly involved me. So I gave Phil a call and this was the information and timeline that he shared with me. I asked him if I could share this with the members of PWI and PWN , and he agreed.

David L. Saulque

In 2002, I began developing a comprehensive Protocol for exhaust cleaners.

Many months, and thousands of dollars later, I finished Phil Ackland’s Kitchen Exhaust Cleaners Certification Protocol. http://www.philackland.com/certification.html

This Program was developed under the strict discipline of the International Organization of Standardization (ISO 9001). The ISO 9001 Quality Management System is recognized by many governments (AHJ’s). For more information see www.iso.org.

The Program is fully developed and ready to be delivered, now, today. It provides an affordable means to have both Companies and Crew Leaders certified as “Trained and Qualified.” And it does it in a way that is “acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction” as per NFPA #96 11.4.

I willingly offered this Program and my cooperation to IKECA.

On Saturday July 12th 2003, the IKECA board met and decided rather than accept this Program, they were going to begin to make their own with Delco Cleaning Systems of Forth Worth.

This is an unfortunate decision. Now rather than having a partner, and working together to improve this service field, the IKECA board has chosen to make a competitor of this Program and of me.

I wish to inform all the members of IKECA that I regret being forced to compete with your group. It would have been great to work together.

Phil Ackland
 
This is an interesting development to say the least, having attended training by Phil Ackland and Delco I can see that each has its place in the industry. Until the National Fire Protection Association 96 standards are more widely accepted and enforced by the Authorities Having Jurisdiction there will be a wide variety of people who claim to be experts and "certify" kitchen exhaust cleaners, even some who certify and promote the single technician approach to cleaning. The cream will rise to the top and the industry will embrace those truly qualified to educate, certify, and professionally represent us. I look forward to seeing and hearing more as programs are developed. Advancement of the industry as a whole is paramount, I would hope to see some cohesive promotion and development versus further fragmentation. I met a kitchen exhaust cleaning owner at an association meeting several years ago who commented that competitors are not enemies, I esteem her perspective and regard her as a true professional - there are many who could benefit by adopting her philosphy.
 
I absolutely agree with you on working with, rather than against the competition. We have established a relationship with most of our local competitors, and working agreements with a few of them and yet there are still a few guys out there that spend more of there time working against us then they do on focusing on thier own business. To each his own.
 
Grant, what a novel concept! Tell us how you and your competition got together, and how many did you kill before you reached a working relationship?

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon,Inc
 
Dear Detroit,

Just curious, what is your real name?

I noticed that IKECA just sent an information CD to every AHJ in North America telling them that they must use a "properly trained, qualified and an IKECA certified" person or company to clean exhaust systems.

I hadn't noticed that the NFPA 96 had included the phrase "IKECA Certified" to clean hoods before. Is this the IKECA edition of the NFPA 96?

Is this one of the reasons that Phil was turned down because he proposed the people be "Ackland Certified" vs "IKECA Certified".

We've made our umbrella a little larger to include those who are PWNA, IKECA or Ackland Certified to fit in our organization. I was just curious as to why your organization would "Dis" Ackland like this. I know personally how hard he has worked on his certification and to be spit in the face like this is pretty hard to swallow.

Thanks,

Rusty
 
Douglas,
Several of our friendlier competitors have called us when they cant handle a job or more often a chain whos store cover an area larger than thier service area. We cover a bigger area than anyone else in Southern California but there are some areas we don't / won't / or can't cover but they do and we send jobs back to them. We have made several useful contacts through this and other BBS's that have created phone calls and job exchanges to the benefit of all parties in an area extending well beyond the state line. Bottom line is, working for a common goal so everyone wins.
Grant

PS. define kills
 
Last edited:
Regarding the expression "Phil Ackland Certified." If you will go to my webpage, http://www.philackland.com/certification.html you will notice at the top, a list of clarifications.
Item 1 and 2 show that although this Protocol is presently called "Phil Ackland Certified" I am giving it (for free) to all the States and other AHJ’s.

I hope these Protocol values that are presently labeled "Phil Ackland" will soon become "State Fire Code regulation #123.456 (or what ever) in accordance with NFPA 96 11.4. At that time all reference to "Phil Ackland" would cease in the document.

Fire Safety is a value, not a possession.

I am in the business of education. It is my desire to make a modest living educating; primarily the AHJ. But to do that there has to be an unbiased set of service values.

With all due respect, exhaust cleaners and their trade associations are seen by government as self-serving. This is not unusual, it’s that way with all trades, not just this one. (See Rusty's note above).

This obsession to “Control the Market” is the thinking of business men. I do not believe that anyone can own a “value.” Without the willingness to share knowledge, to work together, respecting the efforts of others (and their right to make a living), then this field will continue to stumble along.

Imagine the “horsepower” we could generate if we only worked together.
 
Phil, you hit the nail on the head! I believe in your approach to educate the AHJ's. When the AHJ's become more educated I believe we will all reap the benefits. I applaud you for your efforts, keep up the good work.

Howard
 
Howard let me be the first to welcome you to the BB.

Rusty I believe that is your shortest post ever, what's up with that!

How can IKECA send something to all AHJ's telling them they must do anything? They have no authority that I know of in my area. What was it they sent out and is it possible to get a copy?

The attitude I routinely get from the AHJ"s around here (mostly fire inspectors) is why should I listen to you, you just want me to get you more work. I have even left an open invitation to go anywhere within reason to give a free inspection and go step by step with them through the system in question.
It is hard not to sound self-serving, because it is in fact self-serving at some level.
 
Via a CD ROM information packet. I'm working on getting a copy so that I can see it for myself.

Once I have it, I'll find some way of distributing it.

Rusty
 
If you want to use the CD-join IKECA-they paid to have it produced-you have no rights to do anything with that CD. Much the same as I have no right to use your Copy Right works. Not to make a issue of this, just stay in your own play pen. If you are a paid member, then use it. "I'll find some way of distributing it". Lead by example. Then again much of your information has been written by others.

David
 
I'm sure that the information presented to the AJH's by IKECA is both informative and instructional and could easily be distributed in a fair way without copyright infringements.

Let's see... hmmm... quote NFPA 96 2001... insert "IKECA" right here... presto.... now we are the only ones who can certify hood cleaners. Ta-daaa! Spend $25,000 and mail to every fire marshal in the US. Pat each other on the back.

The only problem that I have with it is that they imply that you must be "IKECA Certified" in order to clean hoods.

Do you think that IKECA has the right to change the implied wording of the NFPA 96 2001 to make it seem that they are the only ones who are truly certified to clean hoods? If they want to change the NFPA 96 then they need to join the technical committee that writes the standards and insert a standard that states that you must be IKECA certified in order to clean hoods. But just quoting standards and changing the wording ever so slightly to imply that only IKECA certified members can clean hoods is pushing the envelope a little too far.

Rusty
 
David do you have any knowlegde of what they sent out? I just want to know how it was worded.

Quote from Rusty

"I noticed that IKECA just sent an information CD to every AHJ in North America telling them that they must use a "properly trained, qualified and an IKECA certified" person or company to clean exhaust systems. "


Do you know if this is accurate? I'm not sure how I feel about it at the moment. I'm looking for more info. I'll go look for a website
 
I have not seen it. But I don't think they would do that as stated, the legal issues are to out of line.

David
 
Last edited:
All that I have been told unofficially is that the CD is very well done and can be custom produced for around $250(?) and they copy CD's are $5 to the members.

I am certain that the CD can be used for your new accounts and for the AHJ. I have seen a old version and it was well done. The new one is even better as I have been informed. One could use it for new accounts & chains, along with the AHJ. If used with a general plan it will be a very good tool for all IKECA members.

David
 
Last edited:
Rusty,

Thank you for your observations, I have edited my profile to reflect my name for your convenience.

Thank you for your interest in the topic and your post.

Ethically I am obligated to only "Provide an opinion on a technical subject only when it is founded upon adequate knowledge and honest conviction", respectfully I am going to have to refer you to a member of the board at IKECA for answers to your questions.
 
As an IKECA member we were given a CD about a year ago. I don't know if this is what you all are talking about. This CD was supposed to be used to infrom the AHJ about "The Benefits of Kitchen Exhaust Cleaning". To my knowledge there isn't another CD.

Assistant membership director / IKECA
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top