PWNA Question
- Thread starter max_rob
- Start date
indiana jones
Member
Yes, about 5 years ago I heard it was @ $10,000 to settle a dispute IKECA had with the use of Phil Ackland's questions & answers on a sample test both groups were using. IKECA said Phil Ackland wrote them for IKECA and when he left over philosophical differences and went to PWNA the lawyers started writing letters. PWNA was advised they'd probably lose in court and settled amicably. Ackland was a founder of IKECA. Max, you wouldn't be trying to stir up some dookie, would you?
M.Hinderliter
New member
It is an unfortunate situation about these sample questions Phil submitted to PWNA. After PWNA publicized them, IKECA said the question were on their exam and filed a lawsuit. The question(s) on IKECA exam were purchased from Phil, meaning that IKECA owned the copyrights to those EXACTLY WRITTEN questions.
As with any test it is important to protect the integrity of it by not allowing it to be viewed except by the author(s), test taker, and the graders. Since this was the case it created a difficult situation for PWNA to verify that the questions actually had existed on the IKECA exam. Furthermore, since both groups were interested in protecting the quality of their exam it made it difficult to actually compare the two tests without compromising them. Since this was the case, I cannot factually state whether the question were or were not under copyright protection by IKECA. I was never privy to IKECA test questions.
It became increasingly obvious that this entire process could become very expensive for PWNA. Legal fees can accumulate very rapidly in these situations. As a board we had to look at this from a financial perspective. It was cheaper to settle the lawsuit than it was to fight it to either prove or disprove IKECA's claim.
Anyway the PWNA settled the suit out of court for $10,000 dollars with which IKECA said they were going to make and educational video for the industry. I believe the video was supposed to be given to Fire Inspectors to educate them about kitchen exhaust cleaning. I don't know what came of the project or the money. To date I still have not seen a video produced from IKECA on the subject. By the way this took place about 5 to 7 years ago.
I wish it had never happened but it did and PWNA has learned from it and moved on. I am not proud of it but am proud of the manner in which we dealt with it. Our decisions were based on what was best for the association and our membership. PWNA now carries insurance to protect us in the future. And we are much more apprehensive about how we put these programs together now.
I hope this answer your questions and we can put the issue to rest one more time.
As with any test it is important to protect the integrity of it by not allowing it to be viewed except by the author(s), test taker, and the graders. Since this was the case it created a difficult situation for PWNA to verify that the questions actually had existed on the IKECA exam. Furthermore, since both groups were interested in protecting the quality of their exam it made it difficult to actually compare the two tests without compromising them. Since this was the case, I cannot factually state whether the question were or were not under copyright protection by IKECA. I was never privy to IKECA test questions.
It became increasingly obvious that this entire process could become very expensive for PWNA. Legal fees can accumulate very rapidly in these situations. As a board we had to look at this from a financial perspective. It was cheaper to settle the lawsuit than it was to fight it to either prove or disprove IKECA's claim.
Anyway the PWNA settled the suit out of court for $10,000 dollars with which IKECA said they were going to make and educational video for the industry. I believe the video was supposed to be given to Fire Inspectors to educate them about kitchen exhaust cleaning. I don't know what came of the project or the money. To date I still have not seen a video produced from IKECA on the subject. By the way this took place about 5 to 7 years ago.
I wish it had never happened but it did and PWNA has learned from it and moved on. I am not proud of it but am proud of the manner in which we dealt with it. Our decisions were based on what was best for the association and our membership. PWNA now carries insurance to protect us in the future. And we are much more apprehensive about how we put these programs together now.
I hope this answer your questions and we can put the issue to rest one more time.
Last edited:
max_rob
New member
Micheal,
I understand and appreciate what you are saying. I am wondering if the IKECA would have really won that case, since thier cleaning test is based off of NFPA standards. It seems to me that the NFPA would have been the one with the problem, but that is another story. I think it is stupid for the NFPA to say they want to promote thier standards to ensure saftey at all these places, but then say give us cash or you can't see our standards. What a double standard. In my mind any saftey standards that are widely used by state and city agencies be supplied to the public for free. But that is not the way it is so I guess there is nothing a person can do about it. But...... I did get a copy of NFPA standards from a local fire dept. I expressed to them that I washed these hood vent systems, and wanted to make sure I was cleaning to standards. They were more than happy to help me out. But remember, their job is makeing sure that fire hazards are proactivley addressed. So maybe the NFPA will see the need and make a change.
I understand and appreciate what you are saying. I am wondering if the IKECA would have really won that case, since thier cleaning test is based off of NFPA standards. It seems to me that the NFPA would have been the one with the problem, but that is another story. I think it is stupid for the NFPA to say they want to promote thier standards to ensure saftey at all these places, but then say give us cash or you can't see our standards. What a double standard. In my mind any saftey standards that are widely used by state and city agencies be supplied to the public for free. But that is not the way it is so I guess there is nothing a person can do about it. But...... I did get a copy of NFPA standards from a local fire dept. I expressed to them that I washed these hood vent systems, and wanted to make sure I was cleaning to standards. They were more than happy to help me out. But remember, their job is makeing sure that fire hazards are proactivley addressed. So maybe the NFPA will see the need and make a change.
M.Hinderliter
New member
NFPA is actually meeting within the next week on standard 96, this is the standard that addresses the cleaning of kitchen exhaust systems. It will be interesting to see what new changes come out of the meeting.
I hope that there will be some support for the exhaust cleaner. And I am not even sure that NFPA can really help with this. Right now the way the court are finding we as exhaust cleaner are at a very high risk of lawsuit if a restaraunt has a fire in the grease exhaust system. I highly advise anyone that is cleaning exhaust systems to document and notify your customers in writting in a format that will hold up in court. Verbal communication will not due.
This is why insurance for the industry is getting harder to find.
I hope that there will be some support for the exhaust cleaner. And I am not even sure that NFPA can really help with this. Right now the way the court are finding we as exhaust cleaner are at a very high risk of lawsuit if a restaraunt has a fire in the grease exhaust system. I highly advise anyone that is cleaning exhaust systems to document and notify your customers in writting in a format that will hold up in court. Verbal communication will not due.
This is why insurance for the industry is getting harder to find.
I look forward to meeting you and Darly next week mike. see you in teh vally of the sun. Whos buying lunch or dinner and can i bring Scotty?