The verdict is in !

Russ Spence

Russ Spence

Commercial Pressure Wash Expert
I would like to see what others have to say but the main focus is about half way down in the article , looks as if I may have been right after all

All this appears as I felt it would be .... an attempt to sell more equipment instead of addressing the problem at hand

How do washers already in financial trouble expect buying equipment to be the end to the means ? The article says 800 ro 1000 dollars , ok whay about added weight to already over loaded trailers, DOT regulation , waste water disposal problems , hazerdous material dumps and handling issues , license to haul , the liability of carrying such materials , accidental spills , higher insurance cost for the same.

Yes go buy the equipment OR Take a stand against those trying to take what little you have left , Carlos you are from California , not from here I say worry about your own problems , We have enough here already

I promise to be the biggest loudest advocate against you now that you have truely shown your colors brother , you have slipped it in on the sly and that is ok but no more on my watch and to think you thought you could sweet talk me into getting on board ...... I say no more ! Do not let them play contractors into purchasing un needed equipment

here is a link to where the article is http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums...-information/12806-cleaner-times-article.html


Better yet lets boycot any vendor who openly supports taking the last dollar you have and see how much they will do to help then !

If the vendor were truely on our side they would fight against the ban instead of selling NEW equipment , wow talk about taking advantage of you in your time of need
 
Russ,
ONly strong contractors would most likely be buying that type of equipment, and they are also the ones that are surviving already. What is going to happen, like any times of economic uncertainty, and this really at its base is an economically uncertain time, is that the strong contractors are going to be able to do what it takes to survive and thrive, and the weak contractors are going to shrivel up and go away. It does happen every day, and remember that 95% of the contractors that start new on these boards today, will not be in the business 5 years from now.
 
Hey Russ,
I'll agree with you that it is a thinly veiled attempt to sell equipment. I have a different complaint about it though. Why is the offer only valid for folks in drought stricken states? That alone will drive me away from purchasing any equipment from them. I don't think they really thought through the ramifications of excluding a majority of the country in their "special pricing". A closer look at this truly shows distributor(s) taking advantage of an already bad situation. Notice how the ad for the Vacu-Boom was smack dab in the middle of the article? A discount on chemicals or stain or whatever, would actually help those contractors get through financially difficult times better than going deeper into the red with new equipment. Talk about an end around......
 
They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. No truer statement has ever been made. Its very unfortunate.

Russ, its not my battle so I won't say too much other than
Your post makes some very strong accusations. Other than your interpretation of the article, do you have any proof as to what you are implying?
 
The focus again is way off.....

It's not about selling reclamation equipment or sending money to hurting contractors or discounting from vendors who are ALREADY feeling the bite of the restrictions.

Last month's Cleaner Times touched on the single largest contributor to the water problems - except it wasn't about the water - it was energy.

OVERGROWTH, poor resource management, lack of planning is our enemy. The continuous unchecked greed of cities & towns to grow grow grow is what is causing the problem.....if there's only so much water to allow folks to live, STOP BRINGING THEM IN. Two people sharing a glass of water is okay - twenty in the same glass is not!

With that said, because of what our industry does, they cannot stop us forever!

Educating the customers, the officials that make the rules is the single most important thing we can do. Scaring people, bullying or intimidating people or threatening people is the WRONG tactic. We already have established a reputation by association of being uneducated hacks - this we have to change and you don't do that by acting tough or caving to knee-jerk reactions when something doesn't look all pretty.

We have a golden opportunity to use the circumstances that we're in to rise above the reputation and make our mark. We are ALL (contractors, vendors, networks & associations) in this together. When one hurts, we should all feel it.

No more infighting...let's just do what needs to be done to show the world what we provide. If someone does things one way, the job is done well and within compliance, pat them on the back and ask what they did, whether it be reclaiming & treating or diverting or what ever.

We have to help OURSELVES.
 
if you would read you would answer it yourself Ken I said "I would like to see what others have to say but the main focus is about half way down in the article , looks as if I may have been right after all

All this appears as I felt it would be .... an attempt to sell more equipment instead of addressing the problem at hand"

That is not an accusation but asking for others oponions , but if the sky is black I call it black ! I think it is all about self you included as a vendor can you really afford not to get on board ?

I am pissed just because I said this would be the alternative from the start and I was told I was wrong , so look at what is in black and white as the alternative !
 
its a new angle to sell equipment, the unfortunate thing is that we have ton of contractors that cant find work with reclaimation equipmenmt already.

the EPA diversion and recclaimation is a touchy subject.

Ken As far as Proof, three citys that have changed BMPS after in correct ones written. One now uncertain, Large retailer wrote and spent millions on the advice of our industry. cancelled programs un-offically because they too had found the BMP was wrong.

I think Russ made a mistake because he is putting this all on carlos, Its not carlos. This selling and promotion is about using this for saving water, I would in fact support using reclamation unit for this.

I believe Russ is caught up in the same things we all have been, tired of seeing contractors and our indsutry get hurt for absolutely no reason at all.

Carlos, Russ is speaking in a broad sense and I understand your stance is to conserve water nothing else.

Ken if you feel Russ is confusiing this situation, Please call him and talk with him. Im sure he can explain, possible he may do it here.
 
I don't see the big deal at all, Like Scott said only the strong will survive anyway. It happens all the time. The reclaim, is a very small part of that article, very small and reclaim is an option, one I don't want to deal with but its an option. I think more is talked about by Celeste as should be, because she's in the middle of it all and knows more. I dont see the big deal Russ. I don't think boycotting anyone that is effected by the drought also is the answer, they might just be trying to help. I

I think its a good article. Everybody that contributed to it good for you all


Hey Carlos, how you doing man, you just keep doing what you think is right, along with everyone else.
 
I'd call Russ but he won't answer LOL.

Guys I agree that its a touchy subject, thus the emotional involvement. I just believe it is wrong for anyone that was not directly involved in this thing to be making accusations. When I ask for proof, I want to see that what Russ is implying, that Carlos or RFW had a personal agenda.. show me documentation.. emails, copies of checks, a person stepping forward to say there was a back door deal, etc. This thing is clean. Period. I have a $700 phone bill last month attesting to the fact that I did my due dilligence to make sure of that fact.
 
pressurepros said:
I'd call Russ but he won't answer LOL.

Guys I agree that its a touchy subject, thus the emotional involvement. I just believe it is wrong for anyone that was not directly involved in this thing to be making accusations. When I ask for proof, I want to see that what Russ is implying, that Carlos or RFW had a personal agenda.. show me documentation.. emails, copies of checks, a person stepping forward to say there was a back door deal, etc. This thing is clean. Period. I have a $700 phone bill last month attesting to the fact that I did my due dilligence to make sure of that fact.
Click to expand...

Ken,

I dont think that this is about accusations (at least not my take on it). I think it is about interptetation and perception, of which each contractor is entitled to thier own.


PS: Get a phone plan with unlimited long distance.... 39.95/month with verizon.

Matt
 
PWNC said:
The focus again is way off.....


We have a golden opportunity to use the circumstances that we're in to rise above the reputation and make our mark. We are ALL (contractors, vendors, networks & associations) in this together. When one hurts, we should all feel it.

No more infighting...let's just do what needs to be done to show the world what we provide. If someone does things one way, the job is done well and within compliance, pat them on the back and ask what they did, whether it be reclaiming & treating or diverting or what ever.

We have to help OURSELVES.
Click to expand...

Celeste I like you more every day. Lets focus on an article pretty well done. Some great points Celeste and kudoos to you for spelling it out

We are becoming a nation wide industry that helps each other and making it more professional for all to see, lets keep the ball rolling in the positive
 
here is the beef guys and I will put it real simple to the ones that are in question in drought areas

As long as the water you use does not run off site you are in colpliance with the CWA (clean water act) or another way of putting it is that as long as it is diverted from or away from a storm drain and into a dry well on the property you are still in compliance, no need for more equipment you need to educate those in your area so they WILL understand

Prokleen Power Wash is working NEXT week in Atlanta Georgia at 2 shopping centers because we educated those in the area in question , we are working there because it was not explained by 11 other contractors , they are under drought restriction but we sold it as a health hazard not to clean as opposed to leaving it as is. Do your homework you will survive and work , there is no need for anyone to speak for you do it for yourself !
 
Russ,

Unfortunately you are wrong. Am I pushing this for some back room deal with a distributor? Not only no but H*LL NO and to think this is factually unfounded.

Your reaction to the article and post thereafter are very surprising to me Russ but I do understand. I don't take them personal as I have never spoke to you in person and the only "sweet talking" I did to see if you could get onboard was sent to you below PM from TGS.

"Alabama - Mar 5th, 08, 09:25 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russ,

Trust things are well with you and the family. I wanted to reach out to you Russ and see whether or not you would be interested in representing the RFW within the state of Alabama.

Much has been said about the drought and even though things appear to be normal, the state of Alabama could very well find themselves in with substantial water restrictions in the near future.

Information about what the state reps would do is located on the website, www.reliefforwashers.com

I hope you can help out. Let me know.

Carlos
New Look

That above was the only dialogue we had about you coming onboard to help. The rest of the dialogue that has preceeded this PM was the RFW having to explain ourselves on the board to you as it relates to your "suspicion" of an agenda.

I said many things to CT in my interviews with them regarding the RFW and drought. I was not giving an opportunity to review the CT article prior to publication. Is that an excuse...nope...just the facts.

As Ron suggested to Ken ~ I also suggest to you. If you have questions, feel free to call me. 707.812.3702
 
I agree with Russ about this, you do not need a lot of stuff to purchase.

I had talked to a few guys about this after the Alabama Round Table.

If you haul hazardous waste, you are opening up a can of worms that you really don't want to open and most of you don't have a clue unless you have a CDL license and have hauled hazardous waste before.

This is not a simple issue of putting dirty water in a tank and driving it to a car wash and emptying it, it is as serious as it gets. Here at a recovery facility, the minimum charge for hazardous waste, dirty water, gray water, etc.... is $.50 per pound, not gallon but pound and they do have truck scales.

If you haul hazardous waste (dirty water) you will need the following in order to not get tickets, get your rig impounded and face possible jail time, here in Texas at least but most states DOT (Department Of Transportation) regulations are the same but vary a little from state to state.

1. Any tank that has hazardous waste must be labeled and have placards on the vehicle on all 4 sides if the weight of one chemical exceeds 1000 pounds.

For an example, water weighs 8.33 pounds so if it was as heavy as water, you could only haul 119 gallons of it or (2) 55 gallon drums of that chemical before you would need: Placards on all 4 sides of the trailer or truck that is hauling the chemical and most important, a CDL for the hazardous chemical because the vehicle is hauling hazardous chemicals and is placarded.


2. You must have proper paperwork for hauling the hazardous waste meaning a bill of lading, manifest or other proper shipping papers which would include the signatures of the shipper (where the chemical came from) and who is hauling it and where it is delivered to and the records must be kept for a number of years.

I don't know about you but not too many people will want to sign to have that stuff hauled away as they could be potentially liable if something went wrong.

You must have a MSDS for the chemical, which would involve a very accurate description of what is in that tank, not a guess but exactly what is in there. You can get fined for hauling chemicals without MSDS sheets.

If you don't have an MSDS for that chemical, I would not haul it.


3. For a DOT inspection, you will have all paperwork within arm's reach for the state trooper to look at and you will do a walk-around inspection of the vehicle and explain what the equipment is along with all chemicals that are in the truck and trailer along with the proper shipping papers, MSDS and explanation of where you came from and where you are taking the chemicals to.

If there was an accident and there was dirty water (hazardous waste) on the ground and there was no MSDS, you are now having a life-altering experience because the state trooper or local police will call out the HAZMAT team to deal with the mess.

Think of around $1000 per hour to clean up the unknown chemical (since you do not have a MSDS and cannot prove it is just dirty water, especially if you are hurt or unconscious and then if it is all over the truck or trailer, they will have to haul it away to be cleaned (very expensive) and maybe deem for it to be PROPERLY DISPOSED OF, in other words, you lost your rig but that is at their discretion, not yours.


There is more to this but this gives you an idea of how serious this can get and worse like driving a placarded truck or trailer without a CDL, now you are driving a vehicle without a license and now breaking a federal law. It can get a lot worse.

Just don't take my word for it, look up this online or ask a state trooper, they know the laws better than the local police.


I am not trying to come off as an a** here but when someone tells you you need to haul off the dirty water, they just wiped their hands clean and stuck you with a big problem that most of you don't even have a clue of what could happen if you ever get stopped or in an accident.


There are many different ways to do the reclaim and you do not need to go out and spend $10,000, $20,000 or more for something that is not needed. There are many ways to do this reclaim, just ask around or go to the Round Tables that are being in places like Alabama, Michigan, Colorado, etc...
Ron Musgraves is doing an excellent job of helping educate everyone and there is even more that a lot of manufacturers don't want you to know about but you will not know unless you hear from people that know and have been around for a while.

I am going to copy this post and put it on the boards so nothing is changed, deleted or manipulated in any way. If you are not sure if it is all here from what I typed, just check the other boards and read and compare.

Sometimes people are being manipulated by suppliers, manufacturers, etc... to help get the word out about their equipment to help them sell high-dollar stuff that most of us don't need so they will hold back the truth or not tell you what you really need to know.

Sorry this is so long but I am passionate about people being ripped off for stuff that they don't need.

Have a nice day!
 
Christopher said:
I agree with Russ about this, you do not need a lot of stuff to purchase.

I had talked to a few guys about this after the Alabama Round Table.

If you haul hazardous waste, you are opening up a can of worms that you really don't want to open and most of you don't have a clue unless you have a CDL license and have hauled hazardous waste before.

This is not a simple issue of putting dirty water in a tank and driving it to a car wash and emptying it, it is as serious as it gets. Here at a recovery facility, the minimum charge for hazardous waste, dirty water, gray water, etc.... is $.50 per pound, not gallon but pound and they do have truck scales.

If you haul hazardous waste (dirty water) you will need the following in order to not get tickets, get your rig impounded and face possible jail time, here in Texas at least but most states DOT (Department Of Transportation) regulations are the same but vary a little from state to state.

1. Any tank that has hazardous waste must be labeled and have placards on the vehicle on all 4 sides if the weight of one chemical exceeds 1000 pounds.

For an example, water weighs 8.33 pounds so if it was as heavy as water, you could only haul 119 gallons of it or (2) 55 gallon drums of that chemical before you would need: Placards on all 4 sides of the trailer or truck that is hauling the chemical and most important, a CDL for the hazardous chemical because the vehicle is hauling hazardous chemicals and is placarded.


2. You must have proper paperwork for hauling the hazardous waste meaning a bill of lading, manifest or other proper shipping papers which would include the signatures of the shipper (where the chemical came from) and who is hauling it and where it is delivered to and the records must be kept for a number of years.

I don't know about you but not too many people will want to sign to have that stuff hauled away as they could be potentially liable if something went wrong.

You must have a MSDS for the chemical, which would involve a very accurate description of what is in that tank, not a guess but exactly what is in there. You can get fined for hauling chemicals without MSDS sheets.

If you don't have an MSDS for that chemical, I would not haul it.


3. For a DOT inspection, you will have all paperwork within arm's reach for the state trooper to look at and you will do a walk-around inspection of the vehicle and explain what the equipment is along with all chemicals that are in the truck and trailer along with the proper shipping papers, MSDS and explanation of where you came from and where you are taking the chemicals to.

If there was an accident and there was dirty water (hazardous waste) on the ground and there was no MSDS, you are now having a life-altering experience because the state trooper or local police will call out the HAZMAT team to deal with the mess.

Think of around $1000 per hour to clean up the unknown chemical (since you do not have a MSDS and cannot prove it is just dirty water, especially if you are hurt or unconscious and then if it is all over the truck or trailer, they will have to haul it away to be cleaned (very expensive) and maybe deem for it to be PROPERLY DISPOSED OF, in other words, you lost your rig but that is at their discretion, not yours.


There is more to this but this gives you an idea of how serious this can get and worse like driving a placarded truck or trailer without a CDL, now you are driving a vehicle without a license and now breaking a federal law. It can get a lot worse.

Just don't take my word for it, look up this online or ask a state trooper, they know the laws better than the local police.


I am not trying to come off as an a** here but when someone tells you you need to haul off the dirty water, they just wiped their hands clean and stuck you with a big problem that most of you don't even have a clue of what could happen if you ever get stopped or in an accident.


There are many different ways to do the reclaim and you do not need to go out and spend $10,000, $20,000 or more for something that is not needed. There are many ways to do this reclaim, just ask around or go to the Round Tables that are being in places like Alabama, Michigan, Colorado, etc...
Ron Musgraves is doing an excellent job of helping educate everyone and there is even more that a lot of manufacturers don't want you to know about but you will not know unless you hear from people that know and have been around for a while.

I am going to copy this post and put it on the boards so nothing is changed, deleted or manipulated in any way. If you are not sure if it is all here from what I typed, just check the other boards and read and compare.

Sometimes people are being manipulated by suppliers, manufacturers, etc... to help get the word out about their equipment to help them sell high-dollar stuff that most of us don't need so they will hold back the truth or not tell you what you really need to know.

Sorry this is so long but I am passionate about people being ripped off for stuff that they don't need.

Have a nice day!
Click to expand...


Geez, All I read was an article about the drought, nothing like what you are writing about. I just got off the phone with Carlos, I wanted to know what was up, because I have talked to Carlos in the past and he seemed genuine. He told me they CT did the interview and the one paragraph in the article was a very small part of the long interview. I don't think and I could bet Carlos is not trying to sell anything to anybody or is trying to do it for some vendor either. Reclaim is a option, Hell Bob from PT can get it and sell it, vendors in the south can, does it mean they are going to push it on us, no. I sure dont want it mandated to me by anyone, I think, I know it was put in there over other statements by Carlos, carlos wasn't allowed to read it prior to print. Thats what I was told by Carlos and I believe it.

Lets get back to a good article, you don't want reclaim dont make this nice article all about it
 
This really isn't about reclamation or compliance or who's getting whose money.

Our industry has a problem....period. Let's not pigeon-hole one person, one organization, one vendor or one network. Let's address the true issue - no one outside of us truly understands what the power washing industry provides. It is a highly technical, haphazardly regulated industry and we are the ones to fix this by communicating the proper information where it needs to be communicated.

Celeste
 
Russ Spence said:
Then I guess now we are going to start saying he was misquoted and blame it all on The Cleaner Times ?
Click to expand...


No, did I say that somewhere:confused: Now I think you might be misrepresenting/misquoting what I was saying, its easy to do on these BB's. Man usually only Doolittle does that to me LOL

I'm done with this I just have a different view of the article & Carlos than you Russ, I just thought you were to strong and I wanted then to share my opinion. We all have our own $.02 have a good one

Jeff
 
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