Best Power options?

Tony Shelton

Tony Shelton

BS Detector, Esquire
Now that we are back to using more guys in the field the lift is only making it through half days sometimes.

Here's what we have now:

4 of these:

@ 25A
GC-2U2200232474122654.514.010-1/4 7-1/811-1/4622 options: threaded stud over auto post OR auto post w/ hole

<tbody>
<th width="33" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> BCI Grp # </th><th width="58" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Interstate Type </th><th width="37" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Amp Hours
@ 20 hrs. </th><th colspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> RC
(Min.) </th><th width="56" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Warranty (Mo.) </th><th colspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Hrs. at Ampere Load </th><th colspan="3" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Dimensions (in.)
L | W | H </th><th width="40" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Weight
(lbs) </th><th width="75" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Terminal </th>
<th width="23" align="center" bgcolor="999999"> @ 75A </th><th width="32" bgcolor="999999"> 5 amps </th><th width="32" bgcolor="999999"> 15 amps </th>
</tbody>


With these four batteries the lift can go full cycle up and down, set and unset about 18 times with two guys in it.

We have days in big office complexes where it would be nice to be able to do twice that.

The only (almost) sure way to keep it going all day is to plug it into the generator after the first hour and keep it running like that all day. Even then, sometimes it starts acting up by the end of the day.

I'm looking for some alternatives. I know I will never be able to completely shed the batteries because I need a backup in case the primary power goes down. BUT I'd really like to be able to run off a gasoline engine that I can start and stop when I need to move the lift while having the batteries only for emergency use. This would greatly increase the life of the batteries (currently I'm having to buy new ones annually) and I have an engine start circuit already wired into the lift controls so I could start the engine up to move and shut it off while we are working on the roof IF I can find the right power combination.

So to summarize I'd like to buy/build a gas engine powered 24 volt DC generator that can produce the amperage needed to run (not charge) the beast. I'd like to use the existing motor start/stop line that is already in the bucket to start when I'm ready to go up and shut off while we're on the roof to save fuel, then start back up when we need to come down. (I don't know what I'm going to do about the choke though.)

First: What do I need to duplicate the power of these 4 - 6v batteries?

I know it's 24 volt DC but what kind of Amps do I need?

Is there anything out there that is made for this sort of thing? Biljax thinks I'm crazy for even suggesting it. They won't answer any more questions on the phone because the lift is out of warranty now. (Last one I'll ever buy from them)

How much engine do I need?

Where can I get what I need?

Help!
 
You can have an engine powered hydraulic system added with remote valves to switch between battery power or the engine driven hydraulics.

Asplundh has many of these trucks for sale and you can see the small engines with hydraulic pumps on them, most are about 13hp and they run the hydraulics fine. Not sure if the company that makes the bucket trucks make them for Asplundh or if Asplundh has a company that installs them later on but they do work good and you don't have the truck engine running all the time.

Another option is the gas engine generator that they put on the smaller bucket trucks from the factory. Not sure of how much electricity they make but it is enough to run the bucket (30' to 45') all day long until you need to put more gas into the tank.

I think that Russ J. might know about the generator size you would need or where to get one.
 
Does the electric motor on the hydraulic pump have an amperage rating?
 
Problem: Batteries are running down too soon or just enough capacity to make it through the day. Running the batteries all the way down each day could be shortening the life of the batteries.
Solution: Assuming Higher capacity batteries are not available, could you add more batteries and connect them paralleled. This could double your capacity thus not running them down completely. The batteries will last longer and you will make it through the day. Two things though; you may need to increase your charging capacity and would you have room for more batteries?
 
Russ, Amperage on the motor is 200A.

George, yours was the solution I was going to use yesterday before I wrote the post. But with the heat out here I still don't think the batteries would last much more than a year and with an 8 pack of batteries that would add another $500 per year to the cost of running it. I know that's not a lot, but in this economic climate every bit counts. Plus it's just a hassle to deal with them. 8 batteries weigh a LOT!

I'm also afraid of taxing the charger. That's another $500 and it is already 5 years old.

My wife suggested that the most important thing was to be able to complete everything on schedule each day without ever having to leave early because of power problems. A gas motor seems to be the most reliable solution.
 
It's impossible to bolt the pump up the way it is set up now. First there are two pumps. Both of which are in tight locations. My thought was to simply supply a continuous 24v power supply like the batteries do. Is that not feasible?
 
Tony,
How about a 24 volt alternator hooked to a gas motor? You could actually have it run by an extension cord to the batteries, and it would work like a dream. I used to have a crane customer that had something similar set up to run one of his cranes. You could go down to Harbor Freight and buy one of your beloved little motors, and just mount it up. If it is a good one, you will likely be able to rig the key switch to start the motor from the roof of the building. Seems pretty simple to me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HEAV...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b26fc3e3

Here is the alternator you would be able to use. Put a pulley on it, and a pulley on the motor, and you should be set to go. Personally, I would spend the extra couple of hundred bucks and buy a Honda motor, but I know how you are...
 
Tony Shelton said:
Now that we are back to using more guys in the field the lift is only making it through half days sometimes.

Here's what we have now:

4 of these:

@ 25A
GC-2U2200232474122654.514.010-1/4 7-1/811-1/4622 options: threaded stud over auto post OR auto post w/ hole

<tbody>
<th width="33" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> BCI Grp # </th><th width="58" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Interstate Type </th><th width="37" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Amp Hours
@ 20 hrs. </th><th colspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> RC
(Min.) </th><th width="56" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Warranty (Mo.) </th><th colspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Hrs. at Ampere Load </th><th colspan="3" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Dimensions (in.)
L | W | H </th><th width="40" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Weight
(lbs) </th><th width="75" rowspan="2" bgcolor="999999"> Terminal </th>
<th width="23" align="center" bgcolor="999999"> @ 75A </th><th width="32" bgcolor="999999"> 5 amps </th><th width="32" bgcolor="999999"> 15 amps </th>
</tbody>


With these four batteries the lift can go full cycle up and down, set and unset about 18 times with two guys in it.

We have days in big office complexes where it would be nice to be able to do twice that.

The only (almost) sure way to keep it going all day is to plug it into the generator after the first hour and keep it running like that all day. Even then, sometimes it starts acting up by the end of the day.

I'm looking for some alternatives. I know I will never be able to completely shed the batteries because I need a backup in case the primary power goes down. BUT I'd really like to be able to run off a gasoline engine that I can start and stop when I need to move the lift while having the batteries only for emergency use. This would greatly increase the life of the batteries (currently I'm having to buy new ones annually) and I have an engine start circuit already wired into the lift controls so I could start the engine up to move and shut it off while we are working on the roof IF I can find the right power combination.

So to summarize I'd like to buy/build a gas engine powered 24 volt DC generator that can produce the amperage needed to run (not charge) the beast. I'd like to use the existing motor start/stop line that is already in the bucket to start when I'm ready to go up and shut off while we're on the roof to save fuel, then start back up when we need to come down. (I don't know what I'm going to do about the choke though.)

First: What do I need to duplicate the power of these 4 - 6v batteries?

I know it's 24 volt DC but what kind of Amps do I need?

Is there anything out there that is made for this sort of thing? Biljax thinks I'm crazy for even suggesting it. They won't answer any more questions on the phone because the lift is out of warranty now. (Last one I'll ever buy from them)

How much engine do I need?

Where can I get what I need?

Help!
Click to expand...

I have a good friend of mine who is the owner of a company called Duo-Regen his name is Paul Grande. They are world wide in battery technology, they deal with all types of batteries including the huge ones used in the minning industry. There technology is awesome, they simply use an additive and a pulse which will greatly increase battery stregth and life. If your intrested P/M me and I will give you his number.
 
Have you thought about solar or other sustainable energy, do you even know what the carbon footprint of your lift is?
 
How big is the generator you plug into now to keep it running all day? It seems like running on electric power the batteries will be needed in the circuit to provide the big amp draw - a generator wont do it unless it was really big. So the battery bank and generator would need to be sized big enough to not draw the batteries down too much.
 
The generator isn't the problem, it's the charger. Here's a typical day.

First 12 times up no problem.
Indicator lights (5) drop down to 4 or 3 lights indicating a drop in battery power. At that point I plug the 120v line into the generator and begin charging.
At first the charger indicates 28-31 volts - all the indicator lights light up and it works great.
After about 6-10 more times up the charger starts going into another mode and starts showing varying amounts from 5v to 26v and everything in between (it's a smart charger designed to work this way)
Meanwhile I'm still putting loads on it trying to get work done.
Once it gets to a certain point as I'm using it, it goes into a fault mode because the battery is too low, I'm trying to charge it and trying to use it simultaneously. After that point I may as well call it a day and go home.

I just got off the phone with a company that sells hi powered alternators.

He tells me I need two 150 amp alternators (one for each 2x battery pack) and some circuitry of some sort and that I will need a 20-24 horsepower motor to run them together. Cost for the alternators, circuitry and pulleys without the motor is $2k. I have to supply my own motor. That's about 3-4 years worth of batteries. I don't know if it's worth it.

I thought at one time all I would have to do is throw a generator on there and charge the darn thing all day. But that stupid charger throws that low voltage crap in there at times during the charge cycle and i feel like I'm doing more harm than good trying to run it and charge it at the same time. I need a constant 24 volt source without all that "smart" stuff to run all day.
 
tomtucson said:
Have you thought about solar or other sustainable energy, do you even know what the carbon footprint of your lift is?
Click to expand...

Tom, are you offering carbon footprint certifications? I'll have Ron give you a call and set you up for the next RT. :)
 
Sounds like the rocket scientist that told me I needed a 5000 watt generator to run a half horsepower pump that drew 5 amps.
 
The Cleaner said:
I have a good friend of mine who is the owner of a company called Duo-Regen his name is Paul Grande. They are world wide in battery technology, they deal with all types of batteries including the huge ones used in the minning industry. There technology is awesome, they simply use an additive and a pulse which will greatly increase battery stregth and life. If your intrested P/M me and I will give you his number.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to get away from the batteries as much as I can. If I can't get this 24v generator thing going I'll PM you and start working on the batteries again.
 
No matter what you do, you still need batteries or some kind of large capacitor! Alternators are designed to maintain the charge of a battery or batteries. If the heat is destroying your batteries, maybe you should invest in keeping them cool. The amount of expense and horsepower we are talking could be used to cool. The batteries are gel cell or deep cycle I assume. Gels last longer. Lead acid batteries have a shorter life-span when completely discharged on a regular basis. There is a process used to recondition batteries and you might try looking into it or find a local battery expert. Rotating batteries mid-day would improve the situation by not draining them. Batteries lose their efficiency over time and bad ones would just work against your alternators and eventually damage them.
 
Tony Shelton said:
The generator isn't the problem, it's the charger. Here's a typical day.

First 12 times up no problem.
Indicator lights (5) drop down to 4 or 3 lights indicating a drop in battery power. At that point I plug the 120v line into the generator and begin charging.
At first the charger indicates 28-31 volts - all the indicator lights light up and it works great.
After about 6-10 more times up the charger starts going into another mode and starts showing varying amounts from 5v to 26v and everything in between (it's a smart charger designed to work this way)
Meanwhile I'm still putting loads on it trying to get work done.
Click to expand...

That's where your problem lies. Your battery charger is designed to charge the batteries, but not sustain the load of the motor. you're trying to drag 200 amps out of your charger by using it while it's trying to keep the batteries up.
 
The hybrid version of my lift is run by a 4500 watt gas generator that simply puts power to the charger plug. I guess it would be an inexpensive trial to just go out and buy a 4500 watt generator and turn it on every time we use the unit. We've been using 2k watts. Maybe that has been the problem.
 
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