burner troubles

[P&J]

I have been having trouble with my burner working consistently the last couple of weeks and am looking for some help. It is a 12 volt system with a Beckett igniter. It will started off by starting and then quiting after few minutes. I then made sure the batteries were charged and made sure the connections were clean and connected securely and started it up at home and it was working fine, but when I got to my first job it started up then quit after a few minutes. On another day, I took the electrodes out and they had different wear patterns on the tips (not sure if that matters). I adjusted them so they were closer and put them back on and started it up at home and it was working, and then went to my first job and it did the same thing. On another day, it did the same at the first job and when I went to my next job I checked the connections again and then it fired up and ran fine the whole time. Now this past Saturday and Sunday I couldn't even get it to fire. I'm thinking I need too replace my battery wires and possibly my battery, but I am wondering about the electrodes. Should I be concerned with the different wearing at the tips? Can you get the electrodes too close to each other? What is the best spacing inbetween each other and away from sprayer?

 

[Ron P.]

ron p

im not mark or the wiz but i like to try and figure stuff out on my own.
If it were the electrodes would'nt the fuel pump still pump fuel? It would'nt get burned and smoke like the devil when started up and tried to burn all that fuel.
You checked the battery so im going with a bad flow switch.
The flow switch tells the burner when to start and stop.
I would wait for better help.
It could be a loose or corroded wire.

 

[keith]

Had a similiar problem awhile back, although I use a 120 volt system. My transformer was bad. Sometimes it would work and sometimes not. When I tested it, it would always spark to a screwdriver, so I thought it was alright. Ended up buying a new transformer and the spark was signifigantly stronger. Now it fires up every time.

 

[Hotwaterwizard]

Do not get them too close or you will short out the electronics in the 12volt Ignitor/Transformer. Look for a loose ground first. Make sure the black wire on the Igniter is grounded to the Burner housing. If there is an electric eye on the bottom of the transformer make sure it is clean. The eye or Cadiumsulfide Cell also controls the transformer. Check all of the wiring to see if there are any loose connections. Replace the battery with a Deep cell battery like a Marine type Battery. If that does not work Replace the transformer. Electrodes should be set as follows.

 

[Michael]

The electrodes should be about the thinness of a dime from the nozzle. The machine must be run at wide open throttle ALL the time, only.

The machine should be cooled down before shutdown to allow for a complete charge to the battery and to prevent heat soak problems with the coil.

It is not neccessary to use a deep cycle marine battery, merely the largest automotive type battery that fits in the available space. Deep cycle batteries do not take a contsant trickle charge well as they overheat, they are designed for complete discharge then proper charging. Ensure you have a large enough charging system on your engine.

Beckett has also had recent problems with their igniters on their 12V units. They suffered from a surge that caused the control ciruit board to fry which may be causing the problems you see. It is possible to wire around the circuit board to allow for continuous operation of the igniter. This may be a challenge to the life of your battery and the igniter. They have a fix in the works and it is possible your local professional presure washer dealer may have access to it. They are also retrofitting their product with the solution to prevent the problem in the future.

A lot can be told from the colour of the smoke from your machine: white usually indicates a too lean situation, black too rich. You do not say what colour smoke you are seeing. Again run your machine at wide open throttle ALL THE TIME when the burner is on.

Hope this helps? If not find a local professional pressure washer dealer to assist you, with luck it will be the one that sold the unit to you and is conversant in the idiosyncracies of their machines.

Cheers.

 

[P&J]

I only run with the throttle wide open. I run with a car battery, when you say big do you mean physically or cranking amps or both? The battery on there now isn't a real high cranking amp battery.
My transformer does not have the eye - I know that because I had to replace it about 9 monthes ago. How long do they typically last. Also, I don't see any smoke when it runs.
I'll go thru the wiring again and check everything you guys said too and see what that does.
Thanks

 

[Hotwaterwizard]

I strongly Dissagree with Michael on the battery! I have repaired these machines for over 15 years and I also have a manufacture on my side stating that a Deep Cell Battery is Recommended. Their name is Hydro Tek Systems. Yes there is a problem with the 12volt Igniter system but all of the manufactures will not take my advice on this problem.
I am the Branch Manager of Steam Cleaners Inc. in Stockton Ca.

In the past few years I have replaced dozens of 12-volt Igniters on the gas powered Hot Water Pressure Washers. They seem to have a defect in their design. I think their design is not the problem. I think the way they are wired is the error in the design.

I have over 25 years experience in Electronics from Car Stereo repair to F15 Fighter avionics systems.

In my opinion the problem is as follows;
(#1)The 12-volt Burner Motor, Fuel solenoid, and burner relay.
(#2) The engine Voltage Regulator.

A DC motor has permanent magnets and windings. When you turn off the motor it acts like a Coil in a Car. As the field collapses it produces a voltage spike just like the Car Coil does. When you apply a voltage to the coil it does not produce the spark for the spark plug. When you take away the voltage the field collapses and the spark is produced. That is why the engine has a rotor, to turn the 12-volts on and off so the field will collapse and produce that spike. On a Pressure Washer that spike is not desirable. The motor will produce a voltage the same way that the Car coil does so will the Burner Relay and the Fuel Solenoid. They are all coils as the field collapses in all of them a spike is produced for a few seconds. If you want to believe, do this test, hook the shaft of the Motor to a Drill and spin it with a voltmeter on the two wires. The motor will act like a generator. It will produce a voltage. This test proves my theory. Another test you can do is to touch the relay coil wires as you turn the DC on and off. DC voltage does not shock you but the spike of the field collapsing in the relay will bite you pretty good. The good news is the solution to the problem is simple and cheap. Just add a Clamping Diode across all of the coils and the spike will disappear like magic. Part# ECG5817 or NTE5817 should do the trick.








Now for the other problem.
The Voltage Regulator on the Engine puts out about 14-volts. This is so the battery can charge. If you take a look at the specs on the Igniter they all say 12-volts not 14-volts. That means there are two extra volts on the Igniter that aren’t suppose to be there. This will cause the components to over heat and draw more amps than they are designed for. This will in turn cause premature failure of the components inside of the Igniter. There is also good news for this problem as well. Just add an aftermarket Voltage Regulator in line just before the Igniter. Only use it on the Igniter. It cannot handle the current of the motor. The part # is ECG933 or NTE933 It is a 12-Volt 5-Amp fixed regulator. They use them in power supplies. They need a heat sink.

On the following page is a suggested wiring diagram for the modified burner.

Sincerely John DeRosa
Branch Manager
Steam Cleaners Inc.
1115 E. Waterloo Rd.
Stockton, Ca. 95205
Hotwaterwizard@aol.com

 

[P&J]

Well, I replaced the battery cables and connectors to the battery, replaced the fuel filter, cleaned the other mesh filter, relocated the elctrodes to the proper specs and made sure the batteries were charged and the burner fired up and kept running. It blew some white smoke when I would trigger it for a few times but then went away. I really need to clean the tank out but it would be quite an undertaking to do that, so that will have to wait until I have enough time. The burner does die after about 3 hours though, I am running off a car battery, so I will try a deep cell to see how that does. Also, is there a way to check the charger on the motor to see if it charging properly? Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[Hotwaterwizard]

Put a volt meter on the battery.
What does it say?
12.6?
Now start the engine and check the voltage again with the engine running.
What does it say?
14.6?
If they are the same then the engine is not charging.
If the second is higher the engine is charging.