Credit Crunch

Have you been affected by the credit crunch

  • Yes, Now it's getting scary

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • Yes, somewhat

    Votes: 14 35.0%
  • No, not at all

    Votes: 20 50.0%
  • Don't need credit, I surface clean in Arizona

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • What credit crunch

    Votes: 2 5.0%
  • It that a cereal?

    Votes: 2 5.0%

  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .
Gotta watch out there....

FLDS (Warren Jeffs) is quite different from LDS (the Mormon church).


Yeah I know, just heckling Scott a little:)

What I've always thought is:


"FLDS (really ugly women) is quite different from LDS (really hot women)":D


Seriously, what is up with all the hot blonde mormons?? (credit discussion too disheartening from me to continue). Why do mormons seem to have such a high concentration of blondes?? Man, I spent quite a bit of time up around Utah/Wy border, and I'm confident running with the generalization that Mormon women are the hottest of any religious denomenation in the country (Sorry Wiccans, maybe next year:D )
 
Yeah I know, just heckling Scott a little:)

What I've always thought is:


"FLDS (really ugly women) is quite different from LDS (really hot women)":D


Seriously, what is up with all the hot blonde mormons?? (credit discussion too disheartening from me to continue). Why do mormons seem to have such a high concentration of blondes?? Man, I spent quite a bit of time up around Utah/Wy border, and I'm confident running with the generalization that Mormon women are the hottest of any religious denomenation in the country (Sorry Wiccans, maybe next year:D )
I've lived in So. Cal., Nashville, TN, and TX. All are supposed to be hot beds for hot women. None hold a candle to where I'm at now! I try to tell my friends that are still single, but they won't listen.;)
 
I don't doubt you. I've been to many "hotbed" areas and it is all hype----except for the mormon gals. Got a theory? I find that sort of thing interesting.

The amount of milk they drink:D Might not be far off base with the hormones pumped into it now.
 
When the airlines wanted a bail out at least they demanded management and the labor employees take a pay and benefits cut. I haven't seen any offers from UAW offering any cuts to keep them alive? Indiana is a big auto worker state but I say let them go. Every US auto produced has $1,500 in benefits only not labor costs in it at every UAW factory. After saying that I have always purchased trucks and cars made by US companies and will continue until there are none.
The airlines didnt get handouts. They got low or no intrest loans which they had to pay back. The airline I worked for said no thanks, well make it on our own.

To the OP, it seems your companies rely heavily on credit. I only use AMX as a convenience, kind of hard to send cash through my computer. I do have 1 vehicle loan for the biz, other than that if I buy something, I have the cash for it. So, I really dont give a rats azz what my score is, for the most part, I dont use it.
 
The worst part is nothing is going to change, we have the same MORONS still running the show and I heard Barney Frank say there still is not a Problem with the way the Morgage Companies are doing business? WTH is he talking about?

We need Fresh Ideas and Blood on the Hill and we got the same old same old running crap, Nothing is going to change no matter what party you belong too. We will get poorer and they will get richer on our DIME.
 
The airlines didnt get handouts. They got low or no intrest loans which they had to pay back. The airline I worked for said no thanks, well make it on our own.

To the OP, it seems your companies rely heavily on credit. I only use AMX as a convenience, kind of hard to send cash through my computer. I do have 1 vehicle loan for the biz, other than that if I buy something, I have the cash for it. So, I really dont give a rats azz what my score is, for the most part, I dont use it.

Here are the reasons we use credit so much:

My wife's business is a DMV service. Her customers are large businesses and car dealerships. Let's say You are a customer of hers. You bought 5 trucks and you want them registered.

She gives you the exact amount the DMV website calculator says the 5 regs are going to cost and you write her a check for $2600. Two days later the registrations come back denied because the cost was actually $2598. (They only take exact amounts)

Now Shelly has to go back to find you (another hassle to find the check signer) to get another check for $2598, then turn it back in and hope they get it back to her so she can deliver the plates to you before you temp plate expires in another couple of days.

A couple of days later the DMV calls and says their computers are down and she won't be getting anything back for 3 more days. Your temps expire. You call and yell at her for about an hour because the cops gave your driver a ticket.

How have we solved this for the past 8 years? Rewind to when Shelly picks up your registrations. She brings them to the DMV with HER OWN CHECK left BLANK so the DMV can fill it out with the proper amount. When your registrations are done she brings them back to you with an invoice for $2738
($2773 + her fee of $175.00 for five regs.) Your trucks are all registered, you give her a check and the world is wonderful. Multiply this over and over. How long do you think we could go without some type of credit?

The average new car registration is $500.00 here.

In addition to her normal customers in August they had a big 15 dealership sale which produced and extra 80 registrations the the DEALERS PAID ($40,000 she pays first then submits invoices to the dealerships)

Later that same month Fedex left 112 Enterprise registrations on our doorstep ($56,000!)

This month 96 came unexpected when a construction company absorbed a failing company and took on all their trucks ($48,000!)

THESE COMPANIES have accountants and computer systems that DON'T ALLOW them to write blank checks. They have to write an exact amount and the DMV is too incompetent come up with consistent numbers.

Here on her desk are three Toyota Camry's that are identical bought by one company, two are $410 the other is $386! It's impossible to give her customers an exact number!

Do you think doing it this way sounds risky for Shelly in case someone doesn't pay? She's done over 30,000 registrations since she started and only ONE check has bounced and that guy paid in CASH the same day.

In my business we clean air filters.

Say I get a large manufacturing facility as a customer and they have 200 paper filters on their roof. I charge them $5.00 each to clean them bimonthly for a total of $6000.00 per year. I take those 200 paper filters and turn them into 150 electrostatic filters by making some of them into larger filters (where I can).

Those filters cost me $3500. I don't even make $3500 till 8 months later! All this is fine and dandy as long as I can spread the cost out over a year or two. Usually I spread it out over a year and count the first year as a break even and don't even start counting any profit till the second year.

So I can understand why, if you are just doing pressure washing, after your initial investment on your truck, equipment, etc, you might not need credit except for large jobs that require a higher fuel and labor investment and doesn't pay for 60 or 90 days.

It's not like we borrow $50,000 per month to buy drugs, fancy clothes, or live high on the hog. We borrow because it is the nature of the type of businesses we do.

If I had $150k in the bank I would use it instead. But we don't have it to use.

As of right now I have over $10,000 owed to me that should have been paid in the month of October from companies I've billed for over 2 years now and they've never been late before. That's $10,000 I don't have to buy filters. That makes me timid about making sales. Not making sales affects my business.

Open credit gives me the freedom to say, "Yeah Walgreens, we'll get started right away on your 540 stores and 14,000 filters". Tight credit makes me cringe when I think that Walgreens might send me the letter to get started and I won't be able to come up with the $300k for the filters.

Credit runs most businesses. You probably wouldn't have your house or car without it. When you do a job and send a bill you 've given credit to that business until you have that check in your hand. It's just the way things are done.
 
It sounds like you have to deal with it then. I chose to have a loan for my biz vehicle, I didnt have to have one. It also sounds as if you have a smaller AR than I. You are correct, many businesses survive on credit, that doesnt make it the right thing or the smart thing to do. But I guess if all you do is change out filters.................
 
It sounds like you have to deal with it then. I chose to have a loan for my biz vehicle, I didnt have to have one. It also sounds as if you have a smaller AR than I. You are correct, many businesses survive on credit, that doesnt make it the right thing or the smart thing to do. But I guess if all you do is change out filters.................

What do you mean by that? .......But I guess if all you do is change out filters.........

I followed you up to that point.

Your bank survives on credit are they stupid?

Car dealerships survive on credit. Should they all go out of business for not being "smart"?

Is your home paid for? Maybe it would have been better if mortgages weren't available and we all just paid rent.

I guess only the rich should be even allowed to start up a business.

Henry Ford had such bad credit he had to sell 10% of his business to Dodge for $7000 in parts and $3000 cash. In July of 1903 he couldn't make his loan payments or his payroll. His company had $223.65 in the bank. A doctor paid $850 cash for a car just before payroll was due and Ford just went up from there.

I suppose Ford should have just forgotten about his dreams because he wasn't flush enough to "choose to have a loan".

I'm not trying to sound like an a*s, and I'm glad your business plan is light on the front end, but ours is different and I hope I have reached the threshold where we can weather the next large account coming in, but if not I'll just start selling stuff. I can do without stuff, but I can't do without business.
 
It sounds like you have to deal with it then. I chose to have a loan for my biz vehicle, I didnt have to have one. It also sounds as if you have a smaller AR than I. You are correct, many businesses survive on credit, that doesnt make it the right thing or the smart thing to do. But I guess if all you do is change out filters.................

Don't bother Tony. Right or smart thing thats just funny

Hey I thought you did more than filters LOL
 
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When all this credit stuff started crashing and I was hearing about small biz tumbling because they needed credit to survive, I wondered what the heck that meant. I mean, I don't borrow money to service people, etc.....I have a couple vehicle loans, but no consistent need for credit.

So I called a commercial banker that I've been friends with for years, asked him why small biz' need so much credit-----his explanation made it much clearer to me. Imagine if you had a biz manufacturing hats----Walmart calls and order 25000 hats, up to the point they pay you, you are out of pocket. Materials, labor, etc. is all credit until you are paid for the hats. Would you credit yourself or have a bank do it?!?! I'd never mortgage my house, etc. to cover my biz.

Another thing.....you might say, "well, I wouldn't sell 25K hats to Walmart without having the cash on hand to do it".....sounds good, but you are looking at it through the margins of a biz like ours. Many manufacturing biz' run on VERY tight margins. Like single-digit percentages. Credit would be an absolute necessity to make it run.

Tony's example of him selling to Walgreens makes perfect sense, especially considering his model description where he "gives" away his filter and eats a loss until 8months later when it turns profit.

Roger---I'd imagine you do the same thing (I do), just on a shorter/smaller scale. Buy your products on a credit card?? Yeah, you pay it off at the end of the month....that is your TERM. Other co's just have a longer loan term. You need to buy NaoH for a big job---not going to buy with your personal cash, so you buy on CC, do job, get paid, pay off CC at the end of the month. Same thing, just a different scale.
 
I think what I'm going through is local. I called a friend this weekend who owns two security companies, lives in a 7 million dollar home.

He told me he was paying cash for some (18) golf carts. They offered him no interest for 1 year so he figured he'd put the cash in a mutual fund and pay it off before the year was up.

He got turned down. Said it was the first time we was turned down for a credit purchase in 20 years.

Friday my banker said their branches in South Dakota and Iowa still do signature loans, but they were cut off on NV and AZ.

Too many foreclosures I guess.

This is the only town I've ever seen a Burger King close in.
 
I missed this thread, I had a buddy this happened too. he lost a 500,000 credit line he ran his business on. He needed it to front the product for 30 days coming into the country. It was the only way the suppliers would ship.

He woke one day not to the bank calling him but the dist saying your credit line draw declined. Wire the money or we are sending your materials to another guy today.

You would have thought the bank would have contacted him, he had no issues other than the banks tighten up all the way around. He also had never failed on loans and credit score was the same.

The bank just decided everyone would have to jump through hoops again instead of looking at everyone case by case.

It sucks and we have to deal with it.
 
The airlines didnt get handouts. They got low or no intrest loans which they had to pay back. The airline I worked for said no thanks, well make it on our own.

To the OP, it seems your companies rely heavily on credit. I only use AMX as a convenience, kind of hard to send cash through my computer. I do have 1 vehicle loan for the biz, other than that if I buy something, I have the cash for it. So, I really dont give a rats azz what my score is, for the most part, I dont use it.


Roger, I also have not used a bank for a conventional loan in years. I run my fuel payroll and all other expenses actually cash. I use my amex for rentals travel and other things.

I have taken it a step further and use a debit cards for my entire business.

We run small business, its nice to think we have the resources to have that luxury.

In reality if my capital expense to duplicate this in a few years my debt would be large. If someone bought you business there capital expense would be dept reguardless if they paid cash or not.

I see what you saying Roger, but this problem reguardless how lean we run our business it still can ultimatly affect ours.

You should be concerned when you start getting checks instead of credit.

I know your and old guy like me, do you remember when people used checks for everything.

Now business has no bad or very little bad checks. I virtually have none...I know that banks are on alert now because i have recently deposited money in my account and the bank informed me and allowed me to make a choice. They asked me if I wanted to hold this out of my balance because they had been informed by the check cashing service that the money was not in the account. That was a nice service my bank provides on certain banks. Im sure its protection all the around.

I remember when i was younger having that drawer with all the bad checks.

Now its merchant dispute, its much easier and the bank is carrying the business.

SO i like credit lines and would not want to see us take a step backwards.

I like getting money from customers in 72 hours...
 
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Credit crunches are real. How we treat them is essential to growing our business. We have learned that handeling any credit problem has to be taken care of before it is real. The credit card companys are now in the process of raising rates and lowering lines of credit. There fore we must again rely on what we have planned on. In our case, we took out a line of credit when we did not need it. We built our credit to a superior line. Having the money available as needed. No matter how may credit cards we have, they can all be shut down at a moments notice. By having a good line of credit and utilizing it as needed, we will be around a long time. We don't feel the pressure to lower our rates or lay people off just to pay the bills. Hopefully this will be a good answer to a rough question. Thank you.
 
I was at a house recently of a very prominent Business person in my state and he has many stores. He was having a very contentious conversation with a Banker over credit and operating money for his operation which is like 60 years old. If this guy was having problems with credit its serious?

My good friends wife is a VP of Commercial Lending at a Bank. She doesn't know week to week if she's loosing her job and the future of the Bank a large one seems to have no clue what to do either ?
 
Yeah I know, just heckling Scott a little:)

What I've always thought is:


"FLDS (really ugly women) is quite different from LDS (really hot women)":D


Seriously, what is up with all the hot blonde mormons?? (credit discussion too disheartening from me to continue). Why do mormons seem to have such a high concentration of blondes?? Man, I spent quite a bit of time up around Utah/Wy border, and I'm confident running with the generalization that Mormon women are the hottest of any religious denomenation in the country (Sorry Wiccans, maybe next year:D )


Gee, I wish I had been paying attention to this. BYU is consistently voted the campus with the hottest women in the US, even over the SoCal schools. Now you really want to get frustrated? They are also voted the most strait laced campus, as well.
As for the FLDS comment, thank you, no. I have enough trouble keeping up with one wife, I don't need a herd, and that is what the FLDS women look like. I think a harem has to be hot women.
 
Has your business been affected by the credit crunch?

Here's what's happened to us:

Shelly's Business-
Credit score Oct. 07 - 721
Main business credit card - $40k limit (paid off every month) DISCLAIMER for JIM GAMBLE ;) - ----she uses this for short term LOANS for her customers - that's not her income!)
Other business credit cards - $8k (paid off every month)

My Business
Credit score Oct. 07 - 730
98k in equipment loans
$20k in business credit cards - (paid off every month)
$320k HELOC with about 100k available

NOW OCT 08
Nothing has changed. Only one small 8k loan added. Never a day late on any payments.
Credit scores - Shelly 620:mad: , Me 660:mad:
Shelly's $40k card reduced by credit card company to $4k, useless - she just closed the account. Other credit cards unaffected
Mine - 320k HELOC reduced to the amount borrowed and closed- (230k or so)
Business cards reduced by credit card company (1) from $20k to 8k. (YESTERDAY I got a GE capital letter in the mail CLOSING an 8k card BECAUSE I HAVEN'T USED IT IN SIX MONTHS!!!, that was my high-interest emergency card!!)
Now it looks like (according to the credit report) we are maxxed out on all our credit and up to our necks in loans. BUT NOTHING CHANGED! Except the banks reduced our credit.
Now, for the past 5 months Shelly has taken out $40-60k signature 30 day loans from the bank for her customers. Two weeks ago the bank told us no more signature loans. WE PAID THEM ALL OFF EVERY TIME BEFORE THEY WERE DUE!!! Shelly had to change the way she does business and p**sed off a lot of her customers she has had for over 8 years!

1 out of 74 homes here is RIGHT NOW IN FORECLOSURE. Not just late, actually in FORECLOSURE. If we have an emergency we may join that club since we have very little buffer zone now.

Is anyone else going through this or is it limited to the Las Vegas area?

Tony,

i dont understand your numbers. Business credit scores are 0 - 100. The scores you have listed (in the 600 and 700 range) are personal credit scores.
 
The airlines didnt get handouts. They got low or no intrest loans which they had to pay back. The airline I worked for said no thanks, well make it on our own.

To the OP, it seems your companies rely heavily on credit. I only use AMX as a convenience, kind of hard to send cash through my computer. I do have 1 vehicle loan for the biz, other than that if I buy something, I have the cash for it. So, I really dont give a rats azz what my score is, for the most part, I dont use it.

LOL an easy way to say "my credit is bad"
 
Everyone of our business cards have been either lowered to the dollar we owe or they have been lowered to $0. We just got a letter from one of the cc companies yesterday saying that the card was lowered to $0. A few weeks ago, they lowered it to $ 3,000, now nothing. Oh well. As long as they do not demand payment in full we will continue paying. I refuse to pay cards off right now, as if we just let them go, we will end up paying for them when taxes go up anyway. I would much prefer to make good on the payment, but it is all up to them. I will give up my credit score (my wife's and the business) to stay liquid.
 
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