EPA Enforcement in 2012 Protects Communities From Harmful Pollution

John if anyone here really disliked you we would have cut you loose.

Please stop referring I said Doug doesn't like you, we all just wish you could tell the truth and not tall tales.

Despite the past accusations helping others not knowing your where , I don't think anyone of us hate you. We actually feel empathy knowing something is just not right John with you being all over the place.

John good luck but I think pwi days have come to and end. If you want to be combative with the entire staff I doubt there a spot for you here. We certainly have allowed much more in the past. But the recent dribble is just none productive in my eyes. I not Doug, recommended you be suspended.

Your never going to lay the Doug thing down, you have been here most likely owing us all and apology for past behavior at sometime or another.

The negatively you bring even brought William from pwi retirement. I think that says it all.




Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
Your the boss Ron. I don't think I did anything above accept be passionate in a few things. I promised someone here that I'll try better to not comment when some mud gets thrown. So that's what I'm trying to do..if it's to late in your eyes then do what you gotta do..
I'm going to keep staying in this thread because I feel, personal feelings aside some of us have for awhile now,, where doing some good right in this thread..
 
Tony you said your working with a lobbyist in the construction field, how can a lobbyist help us here in the Powerwashing industry? Do you have any goals on that or do you think we don't need any type of lobbying done in our behalf?
 
13,000+ views now. This topic is apparently important for many for the views to be so high so fast. Can we hit 20,000,30,000+ views in the next month or so?

How about some of the lurkers here who are only reading..What's your thoughts concerning this subject? Maybe one of you or a combination of a few of you we can even get some more idea's and a potential ground breaking answer to move this forward that favors us as a whole..
You got something fire away(smile)
 
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This is a small example of how we are being portrayed in the wrong way. Why would any of us develop, post or support a document like this one. Just look at the picture "How many pollution sources can you find?" How does that portray us?
 
This is a small example of how we are being portrayed in the wrong way. Why would any of us develop, post or support a document like this one. Just look at the picture "How many pollution sources can you find?" How does that portray us?

The other distinction that is not being made is that of there being no off-property discharge then there are no requirements under CWA. Not everything reaches the storm drain... to immediately jump to the insinuation that we are all pushing our washwater to the storm drain is reckless.

It has been stated numerous times in this thread to the effect of, 'I used to think I can put my wash water anywhere'... that is not the argument here. My argument is separation of activities and potential environmental impact.

Example... we pressure wash a bunch of shopping centers on a monthly cycle. The property manager has a porter who is on property 5 hrs/day every day and a lot sweeping company sweeping the lot every night. These 2 services take care of dirt, debris, dust and occasional sidewalk spills. The property has been built to code with its own structural BMPs and is positioned about 1,500' back from road (and MS4), there is no chance of water entering MS4 or US waters - the water washed into on-site structural BMPs has cooled to ambient temperature, no problem.

To address this example in the same conversation or proposed model ordinance as fleet washing, parking garage cleaning or gas station cleaning is not pro-contractor.
 
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This is a small example of how we are being portrayed in the wrong way. Why would any of us develop, post or support a document like this one. Just look at the picture "How many pollution sources can you find?" How does that portray us?
I haven't seen that drawing in many, many years. I'm about 99% certain that this picture came from an environmental equipment manufacturer in the early 1990's. It was used to show how washing vehicles could cause a problem when selling a wash water recycling system to a business owner. It was never intended to be used for contract cleaners, twenty years ago they were not considered much of a problem. Plus no one had a portable system to sell them.

Back in the 1990's, that same manufacturer use to hold environmental "seminars" around the country and would invite managers from all the local auto shops, fleet maintenance facilities, golf courses, waste management operations, construction companies etc. These events regularly drew in more than a hundred people. A local environmental official would be invited to come in and address the group, then the equipment manufacturer would step up and show how their products would solve the problem. It was a win for the officials because they got the message out, it was a win for the manufacturer because they were able to show how they could solve the problem, and it was informative for the attendees because many of them had no idea what the rules were and how to solve the problem. Some of them bought equipment, some of them stopped washing and many of them decided to hire contract cleaners under the false assumption that this would absolve them of the waste water responsibility. In any event, it was a good example of how users, officials and manufacturers would sit down and have a rational discussion about the problem and try to find a solution. I should make it clear that this was not done by my employer below.

As for the current issues facing this industry, I have many ideas but will not discuss them in an open forum with my employers name in bold letters below. Last time I did that I thought I was going to be run out of here with pitchforks. Its threads like this that make me wish for a bit of anonymity as I and I'm sure others would like to contribute ideas without fear of repercussions.

I will say this though, all of you need to take charge of your industry. Right now is when regulations are being drafted and implemented that will directly affect all of your futures. You can either sit back and accept what is coming down the pipe, or you can get active and meet with your officials that will be responsible for writing and enforcing the regulations you will soon have to live with. I've always believed that you can work with these people so long as they understand that you have a job to do and that you understand some regulation is necessary. They need to know there is a big difference between washing shopping carts and a bulldozer. You may need to know what kind of hazardous metals are on some of the things you wash. If you work to find the common ground, you may find the regulations much easier to live with rather than working with regulations that are formulated without your input. It is much easier to plead your case before the rules are on the books than after they have already been written.
 
I will say this though, all of you need to take charge of your industry. Right now is when regulations are being drafted and implemented that will directly affect all of your futures. You can either sit back and accept what is coming down the pipe, or you can get active and meet with your officials that will be responsible for writing and enforcing the regulations you will soon have to live with. I've always believed that you can work with these people so long as they understand that you have a job to do and that you understand some regulation is necessary. They need to know there is a big difference between washing shopping carts and a bulldozer. You may need to know what kind of hazardous metals are on some of the things you wash. If you work to find the common ground, you may find the regulations much easier to live with rather than working with regulations that are formulated without your input. It is much easier to plead your case before the rules are on the books than after they have already been written.

Excellent Philip.... I can tell you from experience that this is the only way that works.
 
I haven't seen that drawing in many, many years. I'm about 99% certain that this picture came from an environmental equipment manufacturer in the early 1990's. It was used to show how washing vehicles could cause a problem when selling a wash water recycling system to a business owner. It was never intended to be used for contract cleaners, twenty years ago they were not considered much of a problem. Plus no one had a portable system to sell them.

Back in the 1990's, that same manufacturer use to hold environmental "seminars" around the country and would invite managers from all the local auto shops, fleet maintenance facilities, golf courses, waste management operations, construction companies etc. These events regularly drew in more than a hundred people. A local environmental official would be invited to come in and address the group, then the equipment manufacturer would step up and show how their products would solve the problem. It was a win for the officials because they got the message out, it was a win for the manufacturer because they were able to show how they could solve the problem, and it was informative for the attendees because many of them had no idea what the rules were and how to solve the problem. Some of them bought equipment, some of them stopped washing and many of them decided to hire contract cleaners under the false assumption that this would absolve them of the waste water responsibility. In any event, it was a good example of how users, officials and manufacturers would sit down and have a rational discussion about the problem and try to find a solution. I should make it clear that this was not done by my employer below.

As for the current issues facing this industry, I have many ideas but will not discuss them in an open forum with my employers name in bold letters below. Last time I did that I thought I was going to be run out of here with pitchforks. Its threads like this that make me wish for a bit of anonymity as I and I'm sure others would like to contribute ideas without fear of repercussions.

I will say this though, all of you need to take charge of your industry. Right now is when regulations are being drafted and implemented that will directly affect all of your futures. You can either sit back and accept what is coming down the pipe, or you can get active and meet with your officials that will be responsible for writing and enforcing the regulations you will soon have to live with. I've always believed that you can work with these people so long as they understand that you have a job to do and that you understand some regulation is necessary. They need to know there is a big difference between washing shopping carts and a bulldozer. You may need to know what kind of hazardous metals are on some of the things you wash. If you work to find the common ground, you may find the regulations much easier to live with rather than working with regulations that are formulated without your input. It is much easier to plead your case before the rules are on the books than after they have already been written.

Great post Phil


Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
 
Its threads like this that make me wish for a bit of anonymity as I and I'm sure others would like to contribute ideas without fear of repercussions.

Philip, your entire post was excellent, and this quote is very true.

This thread contains a lot of great information, unfortunately it also has personal attacks, self-aggrandizing, mumblings of insanity, unprofessionalism and just general drama.

Is it any wonder there are so many views and so few posters? It's like watching a car wreck.
 
Here is an idea, for those that want to post but want to remain anonymous, pm your posts to any of the moderators or people you trust on the site here or people that have posted here on this thread and we will post your messages so they remain anonymous so you don't have to put up with the nonsense, personal attacks, accused of words that are meaningless or empty and other stuff that would keep you from posting.

I think this would be a great idea and will get more people contributing as I have had calls from 4 different contractors in the past week about this thread and would like to post about their dis-satisfaction about the poor representation this industry has had over the past years and of people lying about bmp's how we were told here and on the phone that those bmp's would not be shopped and were shopped anyway and some other issues but don't want to get harassed here and put up with the nonsense that is happening to people posting legitimate questions and not getting results or real answers to these questions even though many of these questions have been asked over and over.

Only problem I see is that people's pm's will get full fast and have to be emptied.

Maybe we can put the post in here and also in the admin area to keep so we can keep our pm boxes somewhat empty and there is a record of who posted what while still remaining anonymous.

I think this would be a great idea, what do you guys think?
 
Great post Philip, thanks.
 
Philip, your entire post was excellent, and this quote is very true.

This thread contains a lot of great information, unfortunately it also has personal attacks, self-aggrandizing, mumblings of insanity, unprofessionalism and just general drama.

Is it any wonder there are so many views and so few posters? It's like watching a car wreck.

John I would love to hear where you stand on this issue. Forget the attacks and politics. You see that's always the excuses from the other camps.

So how can we as industry move forward?


Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
 
Robert, maybe you have not understood the question that has been asked of you several times. I will try to repeat what Scott and several others have asked of you. "Why are you and the PWN@ pushing bmp's that exceed what the CWA requires?" I don't think the question can be made any simplier for you to understand. Maybe the mayor was right.

We are not, and I explained what we are doing.
 
I wish I could thank you for not being arrogant and condescending. I think that what you refuse to understand is that if the PWNA supports and promotes the tighter regulations, they are giving tacit approval to regulations that exceed federal standards. I don't think that this represents the best interest of anyone but the distributors, and the larger contractors, that can afford the recovery systems to wash anything, and everything they might come across. Sounds like a Fleetwash approach where no one else is qualified because they don't have our equipment...whether they use the equipment or not.

That is not true.
 
Robert, you asked for ours. I'm going to post up some videos in this and the next two posts.

This post shows a Las Vegas rainstorm. They are are few and far between. This video was taken at least 45 minutes into the downpour.

All the initial rush of oils and other light material had already washed off the streets.

Yet even 45 minutes into it there is still a lot of debris/dirt in the runoff.

Take a look:


Good video, what are the BMPs or are you just showing the run-off?
 
Those drain plugs can no doubt be a problem. We had to pop a drain cover off awhile back because the piping underneath on the ceiling of the floor below was cracked and missing a section. So we open up the drain cover to see if we should block it off with a makeshift plug on top of berming the drain off.

Smarter heads prevailed here because what would happen if the plug worked it's way down the drain. We scratched that idea. We doubled covered the drain and very little water got past.

Most Jurisdiction do not allow Power Washers to use them, because of a lack of training too many have broken the pipe.
 
A few minutes later the rain has slowed and the debris is thinning out.

Yet I was still able to put a simple polyester/polypropylene coated filter out there and capture a lot:



That is a good video, shows what a rain event will do.
 
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